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Old 11-30-2009, 03:47 PM   #51
Kevin Leavitt
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Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Re: Why do we use so much grappling in Aikido?

it's not just the range...it is also the assumptions and conditions you impose in those ranges as well.

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Old 11-30-2009, 04:45 PM   #52
L. Camejo
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Dojo: Ontario Martial Arts
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,423
Re: Why do we use so much grappling in Aikido?

Both of you are correct imho.

Michael, not sure which part of Florida you're in but the Akayama Ryu Winter Camp is in Orange Beach, Al in mid-January 2010. I'm carded to do a seminar in Shodokan Aikido there as well.

See here - www.akayamaryu.com .

The thing about training in one range however is that if you master it then you can stand up to just about anything as long as you can maintain it. This goes back to Tomiki's method in that many people will just find it easier to grapple and go into newaza if range is closed to the point where Aikido waza is difficult. To me that makes sense on a practical level.

However I have also found that when I refused myself the option of going to the ground I improved my ma ai, posture, grounding, tsukuri, power generation, tegatana skills and found a bunch of subtle, non-physical things within the Aikido-specific paradigm that took my training to another level. The result was that I never had to worry about grappling at close range because the situation of getting into closed ma ai or being taken down was almost always prevented.

At this point in my Aikido development I found that things most often went my way as long as I was standing and facing my opponent. So I decided to remove the assumption of standing and awareness of the attacker and this is what guided me to Jujutsu to address the potentiality of being on my back and unaware of the attacker's approach. Once again I learnt some things that I just could not from the other paradigm.

This is why I am of the belief that to truly understand the method we have to create certain conditions that allow us to explore it deeply before going towards other options that though easier and more intuitive, will not assist us in developing mastery if that is our goal.

Just my thoughts.

Good thread.

Last edited by L. Camejo : 11-30-2009 at 04:48 PM.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 11-30-2009, 05:22 PM   #53
Dojo: TNBBC (Icho Ryu Aiki Budo), Shinto Ryu IaiBattojutsu
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 927
Re: Why do we use so much grappling in Aikido?

Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Oh, I see what you mean! Yea, I do things sometimes in AIkido that aikidoka are not used to seeing. LIke them doing ikkyo on me only to have me go down the roll around into a dela riva guard then around their back, standing back up to iriminage!
If this was Facebook, I would have just clicked the "like" button here...

Chris Moses
TNBBC, "Putting the ME in MEdiocre!"
Budo Tanren at Seattle School of Aikido
Shinto Ryu Iai-Battojutsu
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Old 12-01-2009, 07:36 AM   #54
Location: Indiana
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,311
Re: Why do we use so much grappling in Aikido?

Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
it's not just the range...it is also the assumptions and conditions you impose in those ranges as well.
Exactly. Anyone ever try to use judo against a guy in a t-shirt who refuses to try to grip you and instead hops around and shoots singles and doubles?

It's damn annoying. Even moving from gi to no gi has unique challenges to it. I never realized how much I use the gi in my day to day game. I had to spend a lot of time relearning very basic concepts to get my game up to the same level. Even simple stuff like breaking posture has to be done differently. Most of my favorite chokes all use the gi. The advantage is just learning how to blend what you know on the fly for any ruleset.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 12-01-2009, 09:06 AM   #55
Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Re: Why do we use so much grappling in Aikido?

Larry, what you say certainly sound very familiar to me. Absolutely agree!
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Old 12-01-2009, 10:09 AM   #56
Dojo: Yoseikan Budo
Location: Florida
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 96
Re: Why do we use so much grappling in Aikido?

PM your way Alex.

Thanks to everyone for contributing to this interesting thread.
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