Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-12-2003, 08:40 AM   #1
"Unregistered"
IP Hash: f62e54e9
Anonymous User
Aikido is becoming a western martial art.

If, for some reason, either natural disaster, or manmade, Japan ceased to exist, would Aikido become a western martial art?

There are many sides to this thought, as it considers the theoretical side of moving the center, plus the present mindset of some practitioners who try to separate and isolate Aikido as purely Japanese, and then there the is me, a dreamer who see's the thoughts being translated into all language and cultures as the thoughts behind the practice become adapted to each culture.

I know some of you visit other discussion forums on the internet, so please give those who have not commented on this subject before a chance to post their own ideas on this subject ... you know?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2003, 10:50 AM   #2
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Location: Florida Gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,902
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido is becoming a western martial art.

Quote:
() wrote:
I know some of you visit other discussion forums on the internet, so please give those who have not commented on this subject before a chance to post their own ideas on this subject ... you know?
Wasn't/isn't this being beaten to death on the Aikido Journal forum?

IMHO, cut the roots from the plant and the plant will die.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2003, 12:23 PM   #3
PhilJ
 
PhilJ's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Bukou
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 240
Offline
I must disagree -- aikido is a reflection of the universe, the "what is". I don't think this is a 'western' or 'southeastern' art. It's part of everything that exists.

*Phil

Phillip Johnson
Enso Aikido Dojo, Burnsville, MN
An Aikido Bukou Dojo
http://www.aikidobukou.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2003, 10:18 PM   #4
Largo
Dojo: Aikikai Dobunkan/ Icho Ryu Aikijujutsu
Location: Indiana
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 247
United_States
Offline
No, I don't think so. Aikido and aikido philosophy is very distinctly eastern and distinctly japanese (as opposed to chinese/ other asian). Aikido is not just a series of moves, but also training us for how we react, what's appropriate, and logical for a situation.

Think about our methods of training. Kata practice is all throughout japanese society. Even driving schools here teach by kata method (don't get me started on driving here).

Anyways, I think that a certain amount of understanding of eastern thinking is necessary to make aikido more than just physical activity. I'm not saying we have to turn japanese or start spouting Yoda like quips, but I don't ever see aikido becoming a purely "western" thing.

Largo

p.s.- after reading this I started wondering: how exactly do we define eastern and western? What attributes do you all think of?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2003, 04:08 PM   #5
PhilJ
 
PhilJ's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Bukou
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 240
Offline
No one person, group, or nation owns aikido. It's not the techniques that matter -- aikido is a philosophy, a "way", not just a self-defense mechanism.

Sounds to me like aikido shouldn't even be in the States or Europe. The founder knew he wouldn't live forever, so knowing he was going to die eventually, he gave us aikido knowing it would not last after it spread around the world.

That's too bad, I like practicing the art and doing my best to adhere to the principles. We should probably switch to American Kenpo... oops, wait... Ed Parker is no longer with us either.

*Phil

Last edited by PhilJ : 10-14-2003 at 04:11 PM.

Phillip Johnson
Enso Aikido Dojo, Burnsville, MN
An Aikido Bukou Dojo
http://www.aikidobukou.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2003, 09:38 AM   #6
John Boswell
 
John Boswell's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 597
United_States
Offline
Confused

Well, first of all... I think this is a silly topic to get all "tangled up" in, regardless of ones opinion.

That said, Aikido is Japanese. Aikido is from O'Sensei who was Japanese and if all of Japan were to slip and fall into the ocean tomorrow... Aikido would STILL go on being OF O'Sensei and OF Japan.

This is kinda like saying," What if the National Archives building in Washington D.C. burned down and we no long had the original Constitution or the Declaration of Independence.... would the United States cease to be or revert to being a British colony?"

What IS... IS. You can't unmake Aikido. Then... if you really wanna get deep, ya... go look how is really is "Way" of Harmony, etc. So many different tangents to go down that way.

In summary: No. It would never and will never become a "western art." Someone might SAY it is or that it will, but that doesn't make them right, now does it?

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2003, 11:51 AM   #7
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
Ueshiba is purported to have said 'aikido is a flower which just happened to blossom in Japan' Possibly he said this to promote it abroad!

I'd agree with Philip, aikido is a set of principles which are universal. Fair enough the dress is Japanese and it was created by a Japanese person. However the techniques cannot be considered solely Japanese (similar techniques developed in western martial arts e.g. greco-roman wrestling)

Also, Kata method? Western dancing schools have 'kata method'. And what strikes me about aikido is it's AVOIDANCE of kata method (except in weapon work).

Also the philsophy of aikido as espoused by Ueshiba is not what most aikidoka follow. I'd say to a large extent people are influenced by eastern philosophy (e.g. zen), which has some relationship with aikido. However, although it never became popular traditional (greek) philsophical thought there were philsophers and artists who espoused spontaneity and what the chinese would call wu wei (e.g. the Roman Philospher Marcus Aurelius). Although the philsophy is characteristically eastern, it is no way restricted to the east (in fact the main growth area in Christianity is now the far east).

I think to a large extent aikido has already become a western martial art:

- there are large (paid) classes open for all (as opposed to the 'traditional' master/servant role of instruction)

- many of the top instructors are in the west

- The use of hakama in mnay dojos is up to personal choice.

We also have to remember that Japan has been strongly influenced by the west. I think Lynn was right - this argument is rather futile! (so why did I bother?)

Ian

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2003, 11:57 AM   #8
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
P.S. I have recently purchased a very interesting book on herbal remedies (by the swiss bloke Vogel). Although eastern traditional medicine has helped stimulate research into our own traditional methods, they actually seem to have developed in similar ways (except the herbs can be found here instead of having to trek to China!)

I think the large perceived difference we often see between east and west is a function of the more recent change from feudal societies in the east in comparison to the more established capitalist democracies of the west. We have lost a lot of our martial arts techniques and folk law in the mists of time ('cos drugs companies don't make big bucks out of medicine you can get in your garden!) - though some reconstruction is now occuring.

Ian

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2003, 09:42 PM   #9
PhilJ
 
PhilJ's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Bukou
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 240
Offline
Quote:
John Boswell wrote:
Well, first of all... I think this is a silly topic to get all "tangled up" in, regardless of ones opinion.
Yeah, but sometimes it's fun and/or interesting to see how ya handle it.

*Phil

Phillip Johnson
Enso Aikido Dojo, Burnsville, MN
An Aikido Bukou Dojo
http://www.aikidobukou.com
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aikido does not work at all in a fight. joeysola General 2191 03-18-2019 06:26 AM
Mixing Aikido with other martial arts Guilty Spark General 146 05-04-2008 10:10 AM
?? Exaggeration in Aikido ?? Roy General 305 03-30-2006 12:34 PM
Aikido Frauds aikidoc General 386 09-29-2005 08:19 AM
Highest Level Martial Arts and Aikido Mike Sigman General 240 08-12-2005 06:22 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:45 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate