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12-02-2013, 02:00 PM
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#1
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Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,276
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Term changes
Hi folks, per another thread, I was curious about the changes in terms for describing the roles of uke and nage. Was this simply a case of a newer generation using more contemporary terminology? Does it reflect a shift in emphasis (either de facto or by design)?
Any insights would be appreciated.
Take care!
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Gambarimashyo!
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12-02-2013, 06:31 PM
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#2
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Dojo: Dale City Aikikai
Location: VA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 394
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Re: Term changes
What change in terms are you curious about? Further clarification is needed.
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12-02-2013, 09:26 PM
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#3
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Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,276
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Re: Term changes
Quote:
Mike Braxton wrote:
What change in terms are you curious about? Further clarification is needed.
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I was under the impression that older styles of Aikido tend to use shite/tori and that newer styles tend to use nage/uke. I was curious if this reflects a conscious, purposeful, change...or, I suppose, if it's even an accurate description.
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Gambarimashyo!
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12-03-2013, 12:26 AM
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#4
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Dojo: Hildesheimer Aikido Verein
Location: Hildesheim
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 932
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Re: Term changes
Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote:
I was under the impression that older styles of Aikido tend to use shite/tori ...
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I never heard the attacker being called "tori".
Where do you hear that?
When practicing with Endō Seishiro we very seldom have shite and aite. But mostly, allmost ever, tori and uke is used.
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12-03-2013, 02:47 AM
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#5
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 64
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Re: Term changes
It's uke and nage for us. We had shi'te and tori used instead of nage at the coaching course recently (lots of different styles represented) and no one got confused. Not up on the history of why different terms are used or any nuances in meaning I'm afraid.
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12-03-2013, 10:56 AM
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#6
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Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,276
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Re: Term changes
Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote:
I never heard the attacker being called "tori".
Where do you hear that?
When practicing with Endō Seishiro we very seldom have shite and aite. But mostly, allmost ever, tori and uke is used.
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Sorry, Carsten, that was a mistake. I meant aite.
(As usual, mucking things up...my subconscious ongoing attempt at keeping myself humble )
BTW, FWIW, at my school we use aite and tori a lot, but also uke and nage, so they've always seemed more or less like synonyms to me.
Last edited by mathewjgano : 12-03-2013 at 11:07 AM.
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Gambarimashyo!
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12-03-2013, 11:21 AM
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#7
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Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,944
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Re: Term changes
aren't we due for a name change? i vote for bozo and waldo.
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12-03-2013, 12:10 PM
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#8
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Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,276
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Re: Term changes
Quote:
Phi Truong wrote:
aren't we due for a name change? i vote for bozo and waldo.
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Works for me: I regularly feel like a bozo in my search for waldo.
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Gambarimashyo!
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12-03-2013, 06:08 PM
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#9
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Dojo: Dale City Aikikai
Location: VA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 394
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Re: Term changes
This is just a function of preference. Doesn't dictate if a style is new or old. Aite means opponent. Tori means to grab, to hold, take posession of, ect... Shite is a conjucated form of a word meaning to do, so the person doing the technique.
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12-04-2013, 12:55 PM
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#10
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Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,276
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Re: Term changes
Quote:
Mike Braxton wrote:
This is just a function of preference. Doesn't dictate if a style is new or old. Aite means opponent. Tori means to grab, to hold, take posession of, ect... Shite is a conjucated form of a word meaning to do, so the person doing the technique.
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Thanks, Mike!
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Gambarimashyo!
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01-13-2014, 03:52 PM
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#11
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Dojo: Aikido Auvergne Kumano dojo
Location: Auvergne
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 295
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Re: Term changes
Hello Matthew, nice to see that you are still posting.
The terms uke and nage describe a situation in the past tense. One person has thrown the other, the other has been thrown.
That works fine when we are doing kata, we know in advance which person is going to perform which role.
But if we study and practice genuine Aiki, then we do not really want to know in advance which role we are supposed to take.
So I prefer not to use the terms uke and nage. I rather use Aite and Shite instead.
The latter terms were used by actor / playwright Zeami to express two equal members of a play.
O Sensei had a distinct preference for these two terms for the same reasons as Zeami.
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01-13-2014, 05:26 PM
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#12
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Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,276
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Re: Term changes
Quote:
Tom Verhoeven wrote:
Hello Matthew, nice to see that you are still posting.
The terms uke and nage describe a situation in the past tense. One person has thrown the other, the other has been thrown.
That works fine when we are doing kata, we know in advance which person is going to perform which role.
But if we study and practice genuine Aiki, then we do not really want to know in advance which role we are supposed to take.
So I prefer not to use the terms uke and nage. I rather use Aite and Shite instead.
The latter terms were used by actor / playwright Zeami to express two equal members of a play.
O Sensei had a distinct preference for these two terms for the same reasons as Zeami.
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Hi Tom! Thank you for the info!
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Gambarimashyo!
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12-28-2014, 08:21 AM
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#13
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Dojo: Westminster Tenshinkai Aikido Dojo
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 280
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Re: Term changes
Thanks for starting this thread Matthew it is really informative. We use uke and tori and I thought this was standard.
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Chris Sawyer
Training day is every day
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