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Old 02-28-2009, 02:11 PM   #51
Mark Peckett
Dojo: Aikido Fellowship of Great Britain
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 84
United Kingdom
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Re: The ego and the martial arts

Steve has red eyes and attends classes irregularly because he works (long hours by implication) as a doctor at a hospital. He may not be much at ukemi, but I sure as hell want him around when I'm sick.
Hope he doesn't get some young kid to diagnose me, though.
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Old 02-28-2009, 04:16 PM   #52
Keith Larman
Dojo: AIA, Los Angeles, CA
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,604
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Re: The ego and the martial arts

Geez, how did we get from a student acting like someone stepped on their twinkie to generalizations about doctors, nurses and god-complexes? My wife works in the medical field and we have a lot of good friends who are doctors, nurses, techs, etc. A good group of dedicated people with the normal spectrum of the weirdness we all are guilty of exhibiting from time to time. Nurses and doctors included. People no matter their profession have the odd habit of being... well... people.

If the dude is tired, well, he's tired. Comes with the territory for some in the medical world unfortunately. But I work very long hours myself (starving artist kinda deal) and I sometimes get to hear about how horrible I look when I walk into the dojo. But I find getting on the mat to be a healing, invigorating thing (well, most of the time anyway). Too tired? Don't come. Can't take ukemi? Learn to watch others and work on it.

So if he's going to get huffy and quit over being asked to watch other students who do something better than him, well, that's *mighty* thin-skinned. You need to check the ego at the door to the dojo. I don't know about the rest of you, but I go to learn. And even if I'm the one teaching I find myself learning something each and every time. There's a 10-year-old who just started a few months in our dojo who is able to perform marvelous rolls. Beautiful. I saw one thing I wanted to correct in how she was hitting the mat with her fists, but, I also saw something else that I realized maybe would improve my own rolls (moderately injured fella that I am)... So there ya go. Good stuff is everywhere.

Honestly I just don't believe in chasing down someone whose ego is so fragile it gets bruised on such little things. If it wasn't that event it would be another one soon after. Shrug and move on. In 2 years there will be someone else who'll get their undies in a bunch over something else relatively trivial to worry about anyway. Hang around long enough and you start to forget a lot of the people who have quit. Not that you want people to quit, but, hey, not everyone is going to stay.

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Old 03-04-2009, 10:57 AM   #53
Marie Noelle Fequiere
 
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Dojo: Atibon Aikido, Port Au Prince, Haiti
Location: Port au Prince
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: The ego and the martial arts

Ok guys, I've been away for a few days, and I can see that this discussion has heated considerably. Some of you still think that we lacked compassion for an exhausted individual needing to train. Seriously, nobody objected about his red eyes or his habit of snoring during meditation. We could understand that. Not to mention the kids, who loved it. Being a doctor, Steve was allowed to have his cell phone not far from the mat, and to ask permission to leave the mat when it rang. Sometimes, after talking in his phone, he would just grab his bag and leave in a hurry. We could understand that. But when one day, he asked permission to leave the mat, went to crack a few jokes with a someone who was watching the class, and came back, nobody understood. He was asked not to do that. He did not do it anymore - he did other things - but just having to explain something like this to an adult can be trying for one's patience. He started training at least a year before me, and he admitted one day that he could no longer execute some techniques that he used to do before. That's why I think that he lost interest, and with it, his concentration in class. The only way for me to explain this attitude from someone who was able to study to be a doctor is that he has respect for his profession, but not for Aikido. In fact, I have reasons to think that he has no respect for the martial arts in general. In this case, he was free to leave, instead of trying to have fun in class. By the way, I haven't yet noticed the benefits of having someone purposefully execute a technique on me in a ridiculously wrong way for the fun of it.
As for the cultural aspect of this discussion, my describing Steve as obese was just a description. The last time I looked, obese was a medical term. I was not aware that it qualified as foul language. But, as I already said, english is not my mother language. Also, I appreciate that someone who has a problem with me to take it on me, not on somebody who isn't there.
Thank you all for your ideas, both those that I agree with and those that I do not. This world would be such a boring place if we all thought and acted the same. And that's what cultural exchange is about: learning about others.
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Old 03-14-2009, 05:49 PM   #54
Joseph Madden
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 160
Canada
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Re: The ego and the martial arts

I have yet to enter ANY dojo where there haven't been inflated egos, and that goes for the instructors as well. In fact, the ratio of super sized egos to truly humble practitioners of the art was 5 to 1. In fact, the entire discussion is ego based. Everyone, including myself, trying to point out THEIR opinion. This whole ego and the martial arts discussion? Its all about ego. It always has been.
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Old 03-14-2009, 06:28 PM   #55
tarik
 
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Dojo: Iwae Dojo
Location: Boulder Creek, CA
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Re: The ego and the martial arts

Quote:
Joseph Madden wrote: View Post
I have yet to enter ANY dojo where there haven't been inflated egos, and that goes for the instructors as well. In fact, the ratio of super sized egos to truly humble practitioners of the art was 5 to 1. In fact, the entire discussion is ego based.
As are all discussions, for the most part, right?

Quote:
Joseph Madden wrote: View Post
Everyone, including myself, trying to point out THEIR opinion.
Offering anyone else's opinion would be pointless, wouldn't it?

Quote:
Joseph Madden wrote: View Post
This whole ego and the martial arts discussion? Its all about ego. It always has been.
An appropriately managed ego is an important thing to offer to our training partners. Discussion is one approach to it understanding what that might be.

Regards,

Tarik Ghbeish
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Iwae Dojo

MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
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Old 03-14-2009, 10:19 PM   #56
Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 950
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Re: The ego and the martial arts

Quote:
Marie Noelle Fequiere wrote: View Post
As for the cultural aspect of this discussion, my describing Steve as obese was just a description. The last time I looked, obese was a medical term. I was not aware that it qualified as foul language. But, as I already said, english is not my mother language. Also, I appreciate that someone who has a problem with me to take it on me, not on somebody who isn't there.
Good post in its completeness not seen here.

OT (just for a moment) Obese being obscene isn't the half of it. Language usage has really has gotten hyper-sensitive. It was stuff that use to be reserved for the elite few busy-body holier than thou old ladies. It really has gotten crazy.

The other day I was talking to a friend and we talked about the drug violence problem in Mexico if going down to Mexico during spring break. I talked about what I heard in the news, "a Mexican was caught with a very sophisticated high power automatic assult rife." Another person hear that and got offended because I said "Mexican." I turned and said, since when did the word "Mexican" become an offensive word, should I have used Canadian instead, would that have offend you any less... Eh hoser?

Last edited by Buck : 03-14-2009 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 03-15-2009, 05:11 PM   #57
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
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Re: The ego and the martial arts

Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
OT (just for a moment) Obese being obscene isn't the half of it.
Whoa up on the language police rant -- just who said that "obese" was an obscenity?
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Old 03-15-2009, 09:40 PM   #58
Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 950
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Re: The ego and the martial arts

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Whoa up on the language police rant -- just who said that "obese" was an obscenity?
Right here, Mary.

Quote:
Marie Noelle Fequiere wrote: View Post
The last time I looked, obese was a medical term. I was not aware that it qualified as foul language.
Didn't mean for this to go into too much of a drift. Just wanted to comment, and then move on. Unless Mary you want to start a new thread....he he he closest thing to being a little devilish.

Last edited by Buck : 03-15-2009 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:55 PM   #59
ninjaqutie
 
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Dojo: Searching for a new home
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Re: The ego and the martial arts

Gah... this stuff always makes my sword hand angry! Ranks, time spent in training and all that stuff always causes problems for some people. I believe that you can learn some of your best lessons from a beginner. If I have a lousy technique, I am going to watch and want help from someone who knows what they are doing... regardless of rank. We have a person in our dojo who has been there for about a year and a half. I have been there for 2 months. They are unable to take ukemi. They can't do a back fall, face fall and their rolls aren't too good either. My falls and rolls are pretty good for a beginner of aikido... but I also studied aikijitsu for 8 years and have done my fair share of being thrown and rolling.

This person is kind and tells me that they like my ukemi. I say "thank you". She is an example of a person that is simply there to learn and doesn't always compare herself to others. Martial arts is meant to be done at your own pace. If "Steve" would have stuck around longer and trained more often then I am sure he would have gotten better. I am also sure, based upon what you said that the newer guy would surpass the other guy..... thus eliminating the "He's lower then I am" syndrome....

I can say from my 8 years of training previously that I have seen students like "Steve" come and go. Even though I was newer then some students, I went up the ranks faster then they did. It did cause jealousy among a few students, but eventually they left. Eventually, as you climb the ranks and teach, you can tell within the first few classes whether someone will stick it out or not. Martial arts is all about doing things at your own pace, being humble and learning. Rank.... belts..... time..... in the end, it doesn't really matter!

Sorry for the rant! It struck a nerve. HAHA.
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Old 05-23-2009, 06:12 AM   #60
erikmenzel
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Dojo: Koshinkai Leeuwarden
Location: Leeuwarden
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Netherlands
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Re: The ego and the martial arts

I cannt even imagine being mad about being asked to train with somebody.
Every person is worth training with, every person has something that can teach you, if only in being a mirror for your own actions.

I get mad at people that refuse to train with someone because of some silly excuse: I cannt train with him cause he only started yesterday, I cannt train with her cause she is spastic, I can train with him cause he frustrates me.

Reflecting on why someone else should train with you might get some people back on the right path (although I do realize not all)

Erik Jurrien Menzel
kokoro o makuru taisanmen ni hirake
Personal:www.kuipers-menzel.com
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