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Old 03-11-2011, 05:24 PM   #201
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

[quote=Joe Curran;279011]
Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Dear Henry,
You are making me blush. You are too kind.I was just a very fortunate person to meet these wonderful Martial Artists.I regret I never had the opportunity to meet Tadashi Abe Sensei and other respected teachers who frequented the Hut in the early days.In this respect I doff my cap to you as my senior since you are one of the early pioneers of U.K aikido.
Cheers, Joe.
Joe

Don't blush....One of my favourite photos on the Kenshiro Abbe Gallery is the one of you as a handsome young dan grade with Abbe Sensei .... ( Not as handsome as me I would add )

Henry Ellis
British Aikido History
www.british-aikido.com
 
Old 03-11-2011, 05:25 PM   #202
sakumeikan
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

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Thomas Campbell wrote: View Post
hi Joe--

I included the link at the end to the newspaper article so readers could get a better idea of the full context of the story. But the video clip itself is what is most relevant to the topic of this thread, about whether your Aikido as a martial art is up to reality . . . when reality can include assaults like what is shown in the clip.

Whether the victim later received compensatory payment for his injuries, whether guards were negligent in monitoring the holding cell or were somehow justified in not immediately responding--these are beside the point. The point is whether your aikido skills (or other martial training) would stand up to being physically trapped with a stronger, more aggressive, clinically insane predator as shown in the clip.
Dear Thomas,
I think my fate would be in the lap of the gods in the situation you described in the prison article.May I also state that I think the prison officers were clearly wrong in their judgement when they put a guy, imprisoned for a minor offence, in the same cell with a man who had a record of violence.
Cheers, Joe.
 
Old 03-11-2011, 05:26 PM   #203
Mark Freeman
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Thomas Campbell wrote: View Post
Do tell.

The problem is, you can't put your training aside. How you train (or don't train) is going to affect not only how you specifically handle the assault (technique, etc.), but also your mindset, physical resilience, and a host of other factors quite relevant to whether you will survive such an attack.

It's also a question of honesty in training. You're quite correct in your implication that some arts and martial artists live in a fantasy world that they are "th3 d34dly." Others perhaps convince themselves that asymptotes and teaching the world to sing in perfect harmony (I date myself there) are sufficient substitutes for awareness, situational savvy, and being able to take a hit or a hard fall.

The title to this thread I regard as an excellent starting point of discussion, for aikidoka and for other martial artists: what are you training for? "Reality"-based self-defense has its own set of biases and limitations, to be sure, but it offers some good questions as well.
Good post!

I have only faced two separate situations where I was at risk of getting a pasting, both with groups of young blokes one group of about 6 15 to 20 year olds and the other a bunch of about 5 15-17 year olds. Each time I was verbally told a) I was going to get my head kicked in ( a possibility ) and b) doing to get killed ( highly unlikely, youthfull bravado! ). On each occasion I managed to negotiate safe passage away from them by basically 'psyching out'/negotiating with the ring leader in each case. On each occasion no aikido 'technique' was required, but did my training save my ass, yes I think so. If I hadn't been confident in my ability to at least give it a good go, I wouldn't have carried the weight in my speech and my posture.

Maybe I was lucky to get away with it each time,and maybe my training worked perfectly, either way I walked away unharmed and glad that I was practicing what I am.

Would I have had that mindset in a locked cell with a 6 and a half foot psychotic nutter, hmm I don't know..maybe not, but I'd certainly see how far my training had got me. Personally my technique for self defence in this situation is to not get arrested and put in a cell in the first place. If you put yourself in harms way, the chances are, harm will come to you at some point.

regards

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
 
Old 03-11-2011, 05:30 PM   #204
sakumeikan
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

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Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
Good post!

I have only faced two separate situations where I was at risk of getting a pasting, both with groups of young blokes one group of about 6 15 to 20 year olds and the other a bunch of about 5 15-17 year olds. Each time I was verbally told a) I was going to get my head kicked in ( a possibility ) and b) doing to get killed ( highly unlikely, youthfull bravado! ). On each occasion I managed to negotiate safe passage away from them by basically 'psyching out'/negotiating with the ring leader in each case. On each occasion no aikido 'technique' was required, but did my training save my ass, yes I think so. If I hadn't been confident in my ability to at least give it a good go, I wouldn't have carried the weight in my speech and my posture.

Maybe I was lucky to get away with it each time,and maybe my training worked perfectly, either way I walked away unharmed and glad that I was practicing what I am.

Would I have had that mindset in a locked cell with a 6 and a half foot psychotic nutter, hmm I don't know..maybe not, but I'd certainly see how far my training had got me. Personally my technique for self defence in this situation is to not get arrested and put in a cell in the first place. If you put yourself in harms way, the chances are, harm will come to you at some point.

regards

Mark
Dear Mark,
Your last paragraph- never a truer word spoken. Joe.
 
Old 03-11-2011, 06:02 PM   #205
Mark Freeman
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

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Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Mark,
Your last paragraph- never a truer word spoken. Joe.
Thanks Joe, appreciated

I see from some of your post with Henry that you were at the Hut a long time ago, nice to see someone else who goes back that far. You must know my teacher, Sensei Williams? He's still going strong and is in his 80th year. He's still got a good memory though, and his early days with Abbe Sensei have always remained in his teaching, even though he embraced Tohei's ki development exercises as part of his own aikido journey, later on.

How did those early years at the Hut, 'colour' your subsequent practice?

regards

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
 
Old 03-11-2011, 06:49 PM   #206
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

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Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
but did my training save my ass, yes I think so. If I hadn't been confident in my ability to at least give it a good go, I wouldn't have carried the weight in my speech and my posture.
Being prepared and confidence in your abilities.

My Dad boxed in the Navy during WWII and was two years Golden Gloves heavy weight champion in Canton, Ohio.

Twice I witnessed my father dealing with groups of teenagers who threatened to kick his ass. Both times he negotiated his way out of it. He would address the biggest one in the group and say something along the lines of " Win or lose you are the first one I take out".

dps
 
Old 03-11-2011, 10:17 PM   #207
David Orange
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

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http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?ne...layer_embedded

This Youtube clip requires verification of age 18 + to view.

Takemusu this. The victim is in a jail holding cell after being arrested for driving with a suspended license. The assailant lands 62 punches over the course of 19 minutes before police/guards intervene.

There is limited room to maneuver, and the victim can't run away or otherwise escape; the assailant, a known gang member later found to be clinically insane, is substantially bigger, stronger, and more aggressive to the point of predation; another man in the holding cell may or may not have been an ally of the assailant, but in any event did not intervene.

"Reality" is a very big word. Aikido, like any martial art, may face a wide range of self-defense situations.

This incident happened in 2004. A newspaper article can be found here: http://www.rblandmark.com/main.asp?S...53&TM=83157.89
Great clip, Tom. Scary and very sobering.

Since watching it, I've thought a lot about it and I think the victim's best bet would have been to stay put when the attacker came and sat down beside him. When he got up and moved away, he opened the distance to be pursued and for the attacker's long arms and legs to punch and kick him. If he'd stayed put (assuming he had some aikido skills) he could have let the guy grab him and led him right into yonkyo (or what we called yuki chigae) or maybe nikkyo (isn't that what judo calls waki gatame?--in yoseikan, it was hiji kudaki--elbow crushing) or another technique like those. To have to overcome those long punches and kicks to get a technique would put you at a disadvantage. I'd rather start out close and lead a grab into a joint lock. In fact, the attack was initiated when the attacker crossed the room and sat down beside the victim. So that was where to begin the defence. Since you don't have room to run, I think you're better off starting as close as possible, to take away some of his punching and kicking capacity.

And I think this is a benefit of serious technical training: you see or hear or think of a difficult attack and then you seriously think about what you could technically do to neutralize it--rather than abstractly thinking how you could harmonize your way out of it by smiling.

Best to all.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
 
Old 03-12-2011, 06:20 AM   #208
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
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Whatever pressure testing you've undergone, it can always go higher. So if I can be "Bob," those that mean I can beat a UFC fighter? Or if I can beat one UFC fighter, can I beat the guy that beat him?

Solid technique is a far better basis than fantasy technique, but there's always a tougher guy around the next corner. Ultimately, I know that my fate is always in God's hands.

Best to all.

David
My fate is in my own hands...
There is always someone round the corner who will be stronger, fitter, younger, I just make sure I survive or die trying....
That's because I'm a stubborn son of a bitch....

Best to you David
 
Old 03-12-2011, 06:24 AM   #209
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

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Great clip, Tom. Scary and very sobering.

Since watching it, I've thought a lot about it and I think the victim's best bet would have been to stay put when the attacker came and sat down beside him. When he got up and moved away, he opened the distance to be pursued and for the attacker's long arms and legs to punch and kick him. If he'd stayed put (assuming he had some aikido skills) he could have let the guy grab him and led him right into yonkyo (or what we called yuki chigae) or maybe nikkyo (isn't that what judo calls waki gatame?--in yoseikan, it was hiji kudaki--elbow crushing) or another technique like those. To have to overcome those long punches and kicks to get a technique would put you at a disadvantage. I'd rather start out close and lead a grab into a joint lock. In fact, the attack was initiated when the attacker crossed the room and sat down beside the victim. So that was where to begin the defence. Since you don't have room to run, I think you're better off starting as close as possible, to take away some of his punching and kicking capacity.

And I think this is a benefit of serious technical training: you see or hear or think of a difficult attack and then you seriously think about what you could technically do to neutralize it--rather than abstractly thinking how you could harmonize your way out of it by smiling.

Best to all.

David
You don't know what you would do.... It's all very well to say what you would do with hindsiight, it never happens like that.... believe me....

Best again
 
Old 03-12-2011, 07:40 AM   #210
Hellis
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
You don't know what you would do.... It's all very well to say what you would do with hindsiight, it never happens like that.... believe me....

Best again
In such a difficult situation one could try an earlier suggestion of how to deal with an agressor.

" First a stern look. then in a firm voice state - I don't want to fight - but I will if I have to " ...

That should the trick..

Henry Ellis
Aikido Blogs
http://aikido-blogs.blogspot.com/
 
Old 03-12-2011, 08:10 AM   #211
David Orange
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

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Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
You don't know what you would do.... It's all very well to say what you would do with hindsiight, it never happens like that.... believe me....

Best again
Tony,

Part of what distinguishes martial arts from mere savagery is the application of rational consideration to situations you experience, see or hear about. You have to ask yourself, "What would I do in that situation?" "What could I do in that situation?" "What should I do in that situation?"

You analyze it and modify your thinking. If you never knew a thing like that could happen, you think one way. Once you realize that such a thing is possible, you have to change your thinking. And part of that is considering what went wrong for the person in question. For example, I mentioned earlier about a karate teacher I knew who was conned into giving a robber a ride. He parked in a spot he couldn't easily get out of and was literally stuck when the passenger showed him a gun and demanded his money. There the teacher was sitting down, unable to forward, without time to shift gears into reverse, unable to stand up and fight...

You think about that and maybe come to some conclusions about how you should behave.

Another incident I mentioned was the guy who was robbed at a traffic light at the bottom of a freeway ramp. You hear of such a thing and think about it and try to develop some responses the first guy could have used.

Mochizuki Sensei always said that through "go ri" or "rationality," you create technique and train.

So even though none of us really know what we would do in that situation, we're better off thinking about it in terms of serious technique.

My rational analysis leads back to what I consider the most important moment of the incident on the clip: the first approach of the attacker. In my experience, that first moment is where you can take control.

If you watch the clip, the attacker sat down beside the victim and said something to him. You can literally see the victim lose his center and he pops up from his seat and moves away. He's trying to escape, but he suddenly realizes there's nowhere to go and the attacker then has both the physical and psychological advantage.

In "similar" situations, I've found it absolutely vital to overcome that first impulse to "pop up" and flee and instead press it back down into my center, staying calm.

So what if the victim in the clip had not gotten up and tried to escape?

What might have happened then?

True, we don't know what we would do, but if we've already done something similar, we can have a better idea of what we would really do.

And if we've thought about mistakes we might have made the first time, or about mistakes we know that others made, and we've considered possible options, we're not just reacting from impulse and fear because we do have some advance knowledge.

And if we've trained hard in techniques designed to work against a bigger and stronger person, we have an even better edge.

I know that aikido works best when we apply it at the very first instant of an attack and, by my analysis, in light of both training and experience, I see that the actual attack started when the attacker came and sat down beside the victim. The victim lost his advantage by getting up and trying to escape. He would have been better off, from an aikido perspective, if he'd stayed in his place and dealt with the attacker's next move from there. Running only drew the attacker on and excited him.

So even when we don't know what we would do, it's an important element of martial arts to apply our intelligence to possible situations and consider strategies, methods and techniques for prevailing in them.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
 
Old 03-12-2011, 08:45 AM   #212
sakumeikan
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Dear David,
In the case of the prison incident the victim simply resorted to one of the two primal instincts when faced with danger. He chose Flight rather than Fight. Not an easy choice. Maybe the fact that he tried to get away simply incensed the monster?? Who knows?
Can we really say how each of us would respond in similar circumstances?Many years ago I had a friend who put his feet up on a railway carriage seat.A young guy came into the carriage and asked my friend [Tommy] to take his feet off the seats.Tommy [who sometimes was temperamental] said no.[used a few expletives being a Glaswegian] .A skirmish developed, Tommy got knifed and died.Was Tommy sensible??I think not.Its a question of the scenario, who is involved etc.You certainly have to use discretion and good judgement in certain cases.
Cheers, Joe.
 
Old 03-12-2011, 08:55 AM   #213
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
In such a difficult situation one could try an earlier suggestion of how to deal with an agressor.

" First a stern look. then in a firm voice state - I don't want to fight - but I will if I have to " ...

That should the trick..

Henry Ellis
Aikido Blogs
http://aikido-blogs.blogspot.com/
It's usually too late by then......
 
Old 03-12-2011, 09:12 AM   #214
Hellis
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
It's usually too late by then......
Tony

So often you read or hear people say what they would or wouldn't do in a hostile situation, how can you know, how can you plan, your defence will be detirmined by your opponents actions. any pre-planning will leads to ones own downfall.

Henry Ellis
Aikido in MMA
http://rik-ellis.blogspot.com/
 
Old 03-12-2011, 09:15 AM   #215
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

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Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Tony

So often you read or hear people say what they would or wouldn't do in a hostile situation, how can you know, how can you plan, your defence will be detirmined by your opponents actions. any pre-planning will leads to ones own downfall.

Henry Ellis
Aikido in MMA
http://rik-ellis.blogspot.com/
Precisely Henry, As I said hindsight is always easy, reality is not...
 
Old 03-12-2011, 10:04 AM   #216
David Orange
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

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Dear David,
In the case of the prison incident the victim simply resorted to one of the two primal instincts when faced with danger. He chose Flight rather than Fight. Not an easy choice.
Well, I think that's one of the most important basics of aikido: center yourself instead of running. There may be a moment to run, but I'd rather not do it from blind impulse. It is very difficult to stand and be centered in some circumstances, but that's why it's vital to drill that incessantly in training. I've had to use that more than anything else I've learned in aikido: go to center and focus yourself from the first instant. Let them see you standing still and let them target you right where you stand. Then move instantly at the moment of attack--which is when they cross ma'ai.

Now, in the situation in the video, with the victim sitting and the attacker coming to sit beside him, ma'ai was crossed without an overt attack and moving would have been inappropriate. I think centering himself would have been the best thing the victim could have done. I'm sure the attacker, once he was sitting beside the victim, demanded sexual gratification and that really inspired the victim to flee. But, there was nowhere to go. So I think staying in place and saying nothing at all--just not responding at all--would have been the best opening. Then the attacker would have to make the next move while sitting beside the victim--most likely putting his arms around the victim and forcing him down. And that would have been better for a grappler than to open the distance again and have to deal with those long punches and kicks in that small space.

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Maybe the fact that he tried to get away simply incensed the monster?? Who knows?
I'm sure it was like running from a pit bull dog.

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Can we really say how each of us would respond in similar circumstances?
No, we can't. However, if you go into the situation blind, with no training, never having imagined the possibility of such a situation, I think it's easier to say what would probably happen--which is about what we saw in the clip. But if you first recognize the possibility of a given situation, then train seriously with that situation in mind, I think you have a much better chance of overcoming that kind of creep. Imagine the clip we'd have seen if the "victim" in that clip were Royce Gracie. If it had been Rickson Gracie, I don't think the attacker would have approached him at all. But if it had been Royce, the attacker would probably have thought he could dominate him. And he probably would have ended up choked unconscious. Of course, most aikido does not include choking, but I'm always grateful that Mochizuki Sensei believed firmly in choking and taught a number of very devious chokes. And we sometimes had to use them because our classes were high-pressure and if our aikido technique didn't work in the first instant, the attacker would follow up with a series of attacks, usually winding up in a grappling situation on the mat, where things were decided with submissions, now and then, chokes.

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Many years ago I had a friend who put his feet up on a railway carriage seat.A young guy came into the carriage and asked my friend [Tommy] to take his feet off the seats.Tommy [who sometimes was temperamental] said no.[used a few expletives being a Glaswegian] .A skirmish developed, Tommy got knifed and died.Was Tommy sensible??I think not.Its a question of the scenario, who is involved etc.You certainly have to use discretion and good judgement in certain cases.
Well, that's why the Japanese have always been so strict about how you sit, where you put your feet, how you behave in public, on trains, in restaurants, bars and so on. Maybe discretion and good judgment would have kept the victim in the video out of jail. Or maybe he would have been put in jail by mistake--which happens more often than 'good' people want to admit.

In any case, it seems that the video showed an attempt to coerce someone into sexual service and the alternatives were to comply, get a beating (possibly to death) or to kick the attacker's ass.

For most people, only the first two options would be available. But by examining the situation and our own capacities and by training with awareness of the possibilities, we might prevail. Who would you have bet on if the "victim" had been Royce Gracie, after all?

Thanks for your perspectives.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
 
Old 03-12-2011, 10:08 AM   #217
David Orange
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Tony

So often you read or hear people say what they would or wouldn't do in a hostile situation, how can you know, how can you plan, your defence will be detirmined by your opponents actions. any pre-planning will leads to ones own downfall.
Certainly, if you say, "I'll definitely do X, Y or Z," you're setting yourself up, but if your training is based on effective response to whatever the attacker does (and you train with resistant ukes against a wide array of attacks), you're in a better position than the fellow in the video. History and much personal experience have proven this. That's what martial training is for. If it didn't make a very big difference, people would have given it up centuries ago.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
 
Old 03-12-2011, 10:13 AM   #218
David Orange
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
As I said hindsight is always easy, reality is not...
Well, and there's also "foresight," which is the essence of martial training. And much of "foresight" is based on "hindsight"--learning from history and other people's mistakes and misfortunes.

You know there are big, bad SOBs out there and you train very seriously to deal with them. You can't know exactly which technique you will use or if you'll use any technique at all. But anytime you see or hear of an unusual attack or situation, you examine that with "foresight" and consider how you could improve your training to deal with it.

And then, with hindsight, foresight and training under your belt, you keep your eyes and mind open at all times.

Otherwise, you're just going about blind.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
 
Old 03-12-2011, 10:47 AM   #219
Mark Freeman
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
Well, I think that's one of the most important basics of aikido: center yourself instead of running. There may be a moment to run, but I'd rather not do it from blind impulse. It is very difficult to stand and be centered in some circumstances, but that's why it's vital to drill that incessantly in training. I've had to use that more than anything else I've learned in aikido: go to center and focus yourself from the first instant. Let them see you standing still and let them target you right where you stand. Then move instantly at the moment of attack--which is when they cross ma'ai.
Hi David

If aikido teaches nothing else, this should be central to everything we do. I may even add that in that standing, your mind has to be totally in to the attacker's centre, so that the very thought of attack is what moves you into action. In the circumstances shown, that is a tall order, he is one mean looking s.o.b, but it seems to me to be the only real answer. He is used to people being intimidated, we don't know how he would respond to someone standing their ground.

Quote:
I'm sure it was like running from a pit bull dog.
My son has one of those, he's a lovely creature, but you don't want to be running from one of those, they are all cock and muscular jaws!

Quote:
No, we can't. However, if you go into the situation blind, with no training, never having imagined the possibility of such a situation, I think it's easier to say what would probably happen--which is about what we saw in the clip. But if you first recognize the possibility of a given situation, then train seriously with that situation in mind, I think you have a much better chance of overcoming that kind of creep. Imagine the clip we'd have seen if the "victim" in that clip were Royce Gracie. If it had been Rickson Gracie, I don't think the attacker would have approached him at all. But if it had been Royce, the attacker would probably have thought he could dominate him. And he probably would have ended up choked unconscious. Of course, most aikido does not include choking, but I'm always grateful that Mochizuki Sensei believed firmly in choking and taught a number of very devious chokes. And we sometimes had to use them because our classes were high-pressure and if our aikido technique didn't work in the first instant, the attacker would follow up with a series of attacks, usually winding up in a grappling situation on the mat, where things were decided with submissions, now and then, chokes.
Can you imagine the number of hits that video would have got, if the situation were as you describe? If the victim in this case just happened to be a really skilled BJJer and took the attacker to task and gave him his comeuppance. I bet the guards would have been in there PDQ as my guess is, they may have been watching the cctv all along!

Quote:
In any case, it seems that the video showed an attempt to coerce someone into sexual service and the alternatives were to comply, get a beating (possibly to death) or to kick the attacker's ass.
We don't know what he said, but you are probably right.
Quote:
For most people, only the first two options would be available. But by examining the situation and our own capacities and by training with awareness of the possibilities, we might prevail. Who would you have bet on if the "victim" had been Royce Gracie, after all?
My money would probably be on Royce, but that guy was BIG and mentally unstable, so I'm not sure it would be a completely safe bet.

regards

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
 
Old 03-12-2011, 11:49 AM   #220
Gorgeous George
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Wouldn't 'zanshin' have meant the victim would have been 'on alert' as soon as he was put into that cell?
 
Old 03-12-2011, 12:35 PM   #221
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

And then, with hindsight, foresight and training under your belt, you keep your eyes and mind open at all times.

Otherwise, you're just going about blind.

David[/quote]

That 's called experience David...... otherwise you are blind.
 
Old 03-12-2011, 01:22 PM   #222
markyboy64
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Thomas Campbell wrote: View Post
http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?ne...layer_embedded

This Youtube clip requires verification of age 18 + to view.

Takemusu this. The victim is in a jail holding cell after being arrested for driving with a suspended license. The assailant lands 62 punches over the course of 19 minutes before police/guards intervene.

There is limited room to maneuver, and the victim can't run away or otherwise escape; the assailant, a known gang member later found to be clinically insane, is substantially bigger, stronger, and more aggressive to the point of predation; another man in the holding cell may or may not have been an ally of the assailant, but in any event did not intervene.

"Reality" is a very big word. Aikido, like any martial art, may face a wide range of self-defense situations.

This incident happened in 2004. A newspaper article can be found here: http://www.rblandmark.com/main.asp?S...53&TM=83157.89
Attack the attacker! is self defence in a nutshell.
If you give an assailant space he will keep taking it.
Had the little guy exploded from the fright reaction he would have taken the other guy out.
Once someone comes into your personal comfort zone unleash hell on your opponent!!
 
Old 03-12-2011, 03:27 PM   #223
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Mark Ackrill wrote: View Post
Attack the attacker! is self defence in a nutshell.
If you give an assailant space he will keep taking it.
Had the little guy exploded from the fright reaction he would have taken the other guy out.
Once someone comes into your personal comfort zone unleash hell on your opponent!!
That would be the best reaction Otherwise they would own you. One does what is necessary to put your assailant down and keep them there. The trick is not to go over the top. British law states you can only use reasonable force..... Tricky....
I have been attacked by women too!! Now that is surreal!! Does one smash their teeth out? Or gently take them to the ground? I'm not in the habit of hitting women, I find it very hard to do that....
It must be my upbringing.......
So one adapts quickly to your situation, or very soon find yourself arrested for assault for defending yourself....
 
Old 03-13-2011, 02:50 PM   #224
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Mark,

I see in the news report that the "victim" probably got everything he deserved, going by his record.
I've a suspicion that those officers thought it might do him some good..?
 
Old 03-13-2011, 03:36 PM   #225
markyboy64
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Mark,

I see in the news report that the "victim" probably got everything he deserved, going by his record.
I've a suspicion that those officers thought it might do him some good..?
The last thing you should worry about is being arrested for defending yourself.
If it is your life or his,it must be his!!
 

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