Some similarities in Internal Body Skills between Chinese and Japanese arts

Mark Murray wrote: Liu Chengde video: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTAzMTk4ODMy.html He uses nikkyo, kote gaeshi, reverse kote gaeshi, kokyu throws, etc. It just highlights a Chinese master using internal body skills in a familiar environment. Same lineage as Li Chugong. Move vids from Li Chugong at this thread: http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5927

Very nice - thank you. Here's one in return

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAzxqzqzIsY

Starts off a little slow, but OTOH it does show how the basic movements are used to power various strategies

Phi Truong wrote: can't push. our muscle is either in contraction (pull) state or non-contraction. a push to your chest is the same as a pull to your back. essentially, our body is a large and complex pulley system. adding to the complication, some muscles are fast twitch and some, slow, i.e. they don't contract at the same speed. -snip-

And yet *we can push*.
And is there is something special in *pushing* that Ueshiba taught Tenryu that way.
q) Why is that?
q2) How and in what way is pushing special?

some thoughts i had (what do you think):
"putting your center behind your push"
"putting you intent behind your push"
"putting the groundpath through the push"
"using the force of your body's gravity through the push"
?
-you can 'pull' parts of your body so strongly that they can line up and push hard (pinnacling at fa-jin?) or tear yourself apart if you are not doing it right (i.e. misaligned, for instance)
-you can clearly be perceived as a push or a pull; but your muscles always pull, as you say. that is cool. still not done thinking thru that. (was thinking 'You build a push out of your muscle pulls' , or something like that)

what do you think? I agree, by the way, that a muscle cannot push, but you can

the rest of your post was great too. been thinking about that stuffs.

take it easy

Josh Phillipson wrote: -you can clearly be perceived as a push or a pull; but your muscles always pull, as you say. that is cool. still not done thinking thru that. (was thinking 'You build a push out of your muscle pulls' , or something like that)

an example, take a balloon and grip one side of it. that is in essence a pull or contraction on one side. if you notice, the other side expand out which, in a way, a push. so in effect, you use a pull to create a push. now look at the human body, if you contract your entire backside, wouldn't that create a similar push to the front? and vice versa? so, the question is how do you train your body to be a balloon? this is one variable of the equation.

another variable of the equation (the most important one), what-if the one-point from Tohei which is the hara/dantien isn't statics but dynamics, i.e. mobile and is the actuator of all these pull (indirect push) actions? what-if Tohei only understood a small aspect of the one-point?
*put on asbestos underwear, going to be hot here soon*

Phi Truong wrote: what-if Tohei only understood a small aspect of the one-point? *put on asbestos underwear, going to be hot here soon*

Off topic, but it's a moot point. Just as Ueshiba gave the nod to Tomiki, Shioda, etc, he also gave the nod to Tohei. It's aikido.

IMO, just as Ueshiba looked at his peers and saw that they were making the way of aiki their own personal way, so, too, did Ueshiba look at his students. I think Ueshiba understood that aiki requires a personal approach in which to display those skills.

Historically, Tohei went elsewhere to start learning these skills and so far, that seems to have been okay with Ueshiba. Shioda went to the Kodokai and so far, that seems to have been okay with Ueshiba.

If you're studying a system designed by Tohei and you're using aiki, it's aikido. If you're studying a system designed by Shioda and you're using aiki, it's aikido. Etc, etc, etc.

What Tohei's understanding about One Point, etc really doesn't matter to me. It would if I were learning from Tohei, but I'm not. If you started training in that system and started learning aiki and you take it as far as you can go ... well, hopefully, you'll surpass your teacher. Isn't that the plan anyway? If you have to get outside help, well, that wasn't exactly frowned upon by the founder either, as far as I can tell.

Phi Truong wrote: now look at the human body, if you contract your entire backside, wouldn't that create a similar push to the front? and vice versa? so, the question is how do you train your body to be a balloon? this is one variable of the equation.

This "push " has a proper name -- and calling things by their right name is always helpful.

Start at page 20
Note the relative contraction of the rear face of the spine and pay particular attention to the difference it makes in the direction of the red arrows on p. 22.

A great site to explore BTW -- for excellent illustrations.