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Old 09-11-2003, 12:29 PM   #26
Bronson
 
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Re:A visiting blackbelt...where do you fit in?

Quote:
Bob Strahinjevich (bob_stra) wrote:
Couldn't have. Assholes don't know they're assholes.
Isn't one of the differences between a psychopath and a sociopath that the psychopath doesn't understand what he's doing is wrong and the sociopath understands but just doesn't care? Maybe I'm a socioasshole?


Quote:
Bob Strahinjevich (bob_stra) wrote:
All kidding aside, aikido seems to be disproportionate in its collection of assholes.

Maybe it's not aikido...maybe it's Australia (see above)

I've been really lucky in that most of the people I've met in aikido have been great. I've met a lot worse assholes in the medieval fighting community.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 09-11-2003, 02:30 PM   #27
PeterR
 
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Quote:
Bob Strahinjevich (bob_stra) wrote:
Peter what was this seriously flawed way you mentioned? Can you describe it - your perspective and the flaw? Ukemi is one of my more favourite part of aikido, so am always keen to learn more about it.
Hi Bob;

Shodokan atemi waza usually result in uke being projected backward at speed. Our ushiro ukemi match that landing pretty much on our backs with no roll. The role in itself is dangerous for the neck but even worse uke is vulnerable to tori following and inflicting even more damage (if he was so inclined). But really the role is not what bothered me but the exagerated tucking in of the leg prior to the roll. I feel that it puts undue pressure on to the knee. The whole exercise seemed to rely on tori being nice and gentle. Doing the waza and stopping. Things of course seldom work out that way.

That might sournd all wise and lofty but the truth is, after training with some Aikikai groups in Canada, I returned to Japan and during randori tucked my leg in for an ukemi. Nariyama Shihan freaked - I think he was seriously worried about injury.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 09-11-2003, 04:23 PM   #28
bob_stra
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Hi Bob

>Shodokan atemi waza usually result in uke >being projected backward at speed. Our >ushiro ukemi match that landing pretty much >on our backs with no roll.

Back breakfall, ala judo?

> But really the role is not what bothered me > but the exagerated tucking in of the leg

> prior to the roll.

Wow. Ok. I've seen some clips of Waite style ukemi and have been doing the above ever since. ;-(

http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/_XOOM/marcvanriet/martialarts/Yamada%20(waite%202%20irimi).avi

That the kind a thing you were talking about?
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Old 09-11-2003, 04:27 PM   #29
bob_stra
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Re: Re:A visiting blackbelt...where do you fit in?

Quote:
Bronson Diffin (Bronson) wrote:
Isn't one

I've been really lucky in that most of the people I've met in aikido have been great. I've met a lot worse assholes in the medieval fighting community.

Bronson
The Diffin-Strahinjevich theorem

Assholeness is proportional to the degree of actual fighting

:-)

BTW: I like the medieval stuff too! Spooky. I've been downloading some of the old sword manuals (eg: Cold Steel). It's all good - y makes you appreciate the european martial arts traditions.
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Old 09-11-2003, 04:30 PM   #30
bob_stra
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Quote:
Ari Bolden wrote:
I was going to comment of the "All kidding aside, aikido seems to be disproportionate in its collection of assholes" comment.

I figure why bother. No more or less than any other style.

Surround yourself with good people.

Cheers!

Ari
Aikido has the granola crowd like no one else ;-)

Besides which, sometimes you can't pick with who or where you train.

*shrugs*

'Tis what it is. Train the best you can with what you can find.
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Old 09-11-2003, 08:42 PM   #31
PeterR
 
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Quote:
Bob Strahinjevich (bob_stra) wrote:
Back breakfall, ala judo?
Yes
Quote:
That the kind a thing you were talking about?
Yes although in the dojo I was talking about it seemed even more extreme.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 09-11-2003, 10:11 PM   #32
L. Camejo
 
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Hey folks,

I can relate to the backward breakfall thing that Peter was talking about.

Had and interesting experience with an instructor who told his students that "we don't breakfall like ninja" (after seeing me do some breakfalls and his students started to follow) with one leg folding under the other to stand up out of ushiro ukemi without using hands.

It's the way I was taught and have taught my students, and it makes perfect sense to me, so I tried his way, but found my own more comfortable, but even more so, much more practical for me. Don't know where he got the ninja idea though .

Interestingly enough, I've trained in both Yoshinkan and Ki Society who both told me to wear a white belt when practicing their style (no biggie for me, the belt only covers 2 inches of yer butt anyway , the rest you have to back up with skill ). Funny enough though, an Aikikai group I usually train with had no problem with me wearing black or anything else for the matter. Of course I do stand out with no hakama . But I honestly expected them to be the style Nazis, not the other way round.

Back to topic, I have had visiting instructors in my dojo, I've let an Aikikai shodan teach a few classes in my absence (after checking him out of course). Have had a 4th Dan in TKD wear his black belt in class, and another of his compatriates wore white, as he was planning on grading within our style.

I guess to me it does not matter what colour belt you wear, but who you are as a person and what you can do, which I prefer find out in training, not by judging the colour alone.

If one plans to grade in our system though, I request they wear a white belt at the beginning. There is no guarantee of accelerated grading, since I've yet to see another stylist come to our dojo and not "catch hell" to keep up. The tanto randorigeiko always gets em . Though I must admit, I am very impressed by the ukemi skills of most other style Aikido visitors I've had .

Just my thoughts.

L.C.

Last edited by L. Camejo : 09-11-2003 at 10:13 PM.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 09-11-2003, 10:34 PM   #33
PeterR
 
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Quote:
Larry Camejo (L. Camejo) wrote:
Back to topic, I have had visiting instructors in my dojo, I've let an Aikikai shodan teach a few classes in my absence (after checking him out of course). Have had a 4th Dan in TKD wear his black belt in class, and another of his compatriates wore white, as he was planning on grading within our style.
That reminds me about my past and its not so cut and dry. There is a difference between someone taking a class and you inviting somone to join in or actually teach.

I've specifically invited ranking TKD, Karate, and Judo people to the dojo - I treated them as an honoured guest because basically I wasn't trolling for students. I specifically asked that they wear the blackbelt and that worked out fine because in each and every case they contributed something to the class. If by chance they were so smitten by my awsome abilities (hey it could happen) that they decided to pack in their chosen art and dedicate their life, money and first born to my well-being - then they would revert to white belt.

I have never met a Dan graded Aikidoist of any style that I would ask that they not wear it.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 09-12-2003, 12:59 AM   #34
Bronson
 
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Re: Re: Re:A visiting blackbelt...where do you fit in?

Quote:
Bob Strahinjevich (bob_stra) wrote:
BTW: I like the medieval stuff too! Spooky. I've been downloading some of the old sword manuals (eg: Cold Steel). It's all good - y makes you appreciate the european martial arts traditions.
The old manuals are fun to try to read sometimes. Assuming you can get past the Olde English. Right now on my bookshelf I have copies of: DiGrassi, His True Arte of Defence circa 1594 (1 old english, 1 American english); Vincentio circa 1595; and Swetnam's School of the Noble and Worthy Science of Defence circa 1617. To be honest I usually end up losing interest before I get used to the Olde English but occasionally I can keep my attention focused long enough to read a fair bit...though it's been a while since I've tried.

Bronson (bow before my seething assholiness )

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 09-12-2003, 02:12 AM   #35
bob_stra
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Re: Re: Re: Re:A visiting blackbelt...where do you fit in?

"Bronson Diffin (Bronson)"

>The old manuals are fun to try to read >sometimes.

More than that - they are *useful*.

The Art of the Long Sword is fan-bloody tastic for aikido style footwork. There's a whole raft of good PDF sword manuals here -

http://tinyurl.com/n3j9

> Assuming you can get past the Olde English.

Ye Olde German is even worse. And lets not even mention Ye Olde Frech. I think they only had one gimp scribe who did all the writing in those days. The font is desgined to induce eye bleeding.

> Bronson (bow before my seething assholiness

Well, as long as I don't have to kiss nuthin, we're good ;p
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Old 09-12-2003, 02:16 AM   #36
bob_stra
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Quote:
Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:
I've specifically invited ranking TKD, Karate, and Judo people to the dojo ...

I specifically asked that they wear the blackbelt and that worked out fine because in each and every case they contributed something to the class.
Isn't that kinda dangerous tho? Someone might mistake the TKD blackbelt for an Aikido blackbelt and decide to *really* throw them?

I'll grant you it's a remote possibility.

I'm still spun out over the "no knee" back ukemi. I was feeling as pleased as punch that I'd finally "got it" - now it seems I got nuthin' ;(

Has anyone *actually* been able to use the Waite style ukem (see my previous link for video) against *agressive* throws?
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Old 09-12-2003, 02:49 AM   #37
PeterR
 
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Quote:
Bob Strahinjevich (bob_stra) wrote:
Isn't that kinda dangerous tho? Someone might mistake the TKD blackbelt for an Aikido blackbelt and decide to *really* throw them?
Well we're not exactly dealing with a cast of thousands. I've only ever had small groups and then most were beginners. I wasn't worried about the guests.
Quote:
I'm still spun out over the "no knee" back ukemi. I was feeling as pleased as punch that I'd finally "got it" - now it seems I got nuthin' ;(
Well you definately have something - you don't feel nearly as clumsy as I do when I go visiting. Can't do a rolling back breakfall to save my life.
Quote:
Has anyone *actually* been able to use the Waite style ukem (see my previous link for video) against *agressive* throws?
I actually don't see why not - the problem is not going down but getting back up either because of a damaged knee or the fact that your aggressor is on top of you.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 09-12-2003, 08:23 AM   #38
Ron Tisdale
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Quote:
Has anyone *actually* been able to use the Waite style ukem (see my previous link for video) against *agressive* throws?
I was at a seminar with Waite Sensei, and quite a few of the students there were able to use his ukemi when Waite Sensei was throwing them. Is that aggresive enough?

Ron (he can throw like a ton of bricks when he wants to) Tisdale

Ron Tisdale
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Old 09-12-2003, 03:22 PM   #39
Kent Enfield
 
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Re: Re: Re: Re:A visiting blackbelt...where do you fit in?

Quote:
Bronson Diffin (Bronson) wrote:
The old manuals are fun to try to read sometimes. Assuming you can get past the Olde English. Right now on my bookshelf I have copies of: DiGrassi, His True Arte of Defence circa 1594 (1 old english, 1 American english); Vincentio circa 1595; and Swetnam's School of the Noble and Worthy Science of Defence circa 1617. To be honest I usually end up losing interest before I get used to the Olde English but occasionally I can keep my attention focused long enough to read a fair bit...though it's been a while since I've tried.
Completely off-topic, but those arn't in Old English. Those tracts are in early Modern English. Old English (Anglo-Saxon) is pretty much unintelligible to speakers of Modern English.

Compare the first line of the Lord's Prayer:

Old English (11th century):

Fĉder ure ŝu ŝe eart on heofonum, Si ŝin nama gehalgod

Middle English (c 1400):

Oure fader that art in heuenis halowid be thi name

Modern English (1559)

Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.

Kentokuseisei
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Old 09-13-2003, 12:41 AM   #40
Bronson
 
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I stand corrected...but they're still hard to read (maybe it's just the font )

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 09-13-2003, 10:17 AM   #41
Qatana
 
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OT on language...

Ok pardon me but i think there is a difference between the terms "Old English" and "Olde English" even if Bronson inadvertantly referred to one as the other...

"Old" English is as Kent illustrates, gradually evolving from Anglo-Saxon to modern language.

"Olde" English, to the majority of people in the States is actually Elizabethan ( or you caould say Shakespearean) English, which actually became standardized with the publication of the King James Bible.

Those of us who work Renaissance Faire have been extensively indoctrinated in the use of "Elizabethan as a Second Language" (otherwise known as BFA-Basic Faire Accent), tho my character, being foriegn,, has managed to butcher it very well with a Russian accent...

so anyway, with the spelling he used, i think Bronson had it right the first time...

gramercy & anon...

Q
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