Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Language

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-22-2000, 01:46 PM   #1
BC
Location: Chicago, IL
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 432
Offline
It was recently pointed out to me that it was only proper to refer to someone as an aikidoka if that person is a professional aikido instructor, and that an aikido practioner/student should be referred to as an aikidoist. I'm curious is anyone is familiar with this usage, or has other thoughts on the proper use of the terminology?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2000, 02:59 PM   #2
Nick
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 563
United_States
Offline
to the best of my knowledge, Aikidoka is the Japanese way of saying it- Aikidoist is the American way of saying it.

I called myself a karateka when I was a gokyu, so I dunno-

-Nick
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2000, 08:15 PM   #3
Chuck Clark
 
Chuck Clark's Avatar
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,134
United_States
Offline
I think the "ka" is used more in the west now for anyone who practices.

I have always understood that in the "old days" it was reserved for the equivilant of about sandan and above. In other words, a "serious" practitioner.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2000, 11:04 PM   #4
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 6,049
Offline
In the cases in which I've heard the suffix "ka" used in everyday Japanese speech, it more pointed to someone who did the thing as a profession. For example, a politician is a "seijika."

However, if someone answered that they were an aikidoka or a judoka, I don't think that the person hearing this would immediately place this person as an aikido or judo instructor but that the person was a serious practitioner (as Chuck said) in the art.

My gut feeling from what I know about the language is that the person must basically consider the art to be his or her primary focus in life...

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2000, 07:13 AM   #5
TONI
Dojo: Shotokan Dojo
Location: Gijón, Asturias (Spain)
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1
Offline
As far as I know, it is just a matter of
language;Aikidoka is the Japanese way of calling an Aikido performer.

In Spain we say Karateka, Judoka...so
why not say Aikidoka?

Of course my Knowledge of English language it's not so deep to know how should it be for English-speakers.

Anyway, is it SO important to lose time in discussions? Or is just better to focus in the practise whatever are we called?

Best regards.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2000, 07:24 AM   #6
Chuck Clark
 
Chuck Clark's Avatar
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,134
United_States
Offline
Japanese is the universally accepted technical language of budo practice. If we do not understand the usage properly, as the art continues to spread, we'll all eventually come up with different meanings.

If we really understand the original meanings and can transmit that...then I agree it doesn't make any difference what terms you use.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2000, 12:14 PM   #7
Nick
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 563
United_States
Offline
I personally think more Japanese should be used when teaching- I know a karateka who can count to two in Japanese because that's all their school requires...

-Nick
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2000, 04:45 PM   #8
AikiTom
Dojo: Aikido Martial Arts Center
Location: Blue Grass, IA
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 84
Offline
I think either one is fine. We use a great deal of Japanese in our dojo, and actually don't use either one very much!
Although, aikido began in Japan, I think as time goes on we will see that it is not culture-specific. As a matter of fact, that helps its acceptance and spread because it embodies principles that are desirable in virtually all societies.
As the art continues to evolve, it may well be the U.S. that becomes the dominant country for aikido. I've not been to Japan, but I would guess that there are as many or more excellent instructors in this country, whether of Japanese origin or U.S. birth. I also think the national character of the U.S. which is to question, experiment, innovate may do much more for the future of aikido because of the pressure to fit in and harmonize in Japan. I mean no disrespect, and merely have in mind the model of the electronics industry for example where the ideas for new products started here and the products were built in Japan.
As Dennis Miller says, "But then I could be wrong." Have an aiki day!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2000, 04:50 PM   #9
Nick
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 563
United_States
Offline
I hope that Japan remains the martial arts capital of the eastern world... if the US usurped that like they do almost everything else, there wouldn't be much left of interest about the country, except perhaps the cars and Playstation 2 . I hope Japan can keep their martial heritage, because that's so much of what their country is about.

-Nick
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2000, 09:49 PM   #10
AikiTom
Dojo: Aikido Martial Arts Center
Location: Blue Grass, IA
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 84
Offline
I think they have a strong martial heritage, but I don't think the modern country is much about it. I think many average Japanese don't have much more than a cursory knowledge of martial arts or the terminology from what I've read.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2000, 09:17 AM   #11
Nick
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 563
United_States
Offline
I read this somewhere:

In japan, they are exposed to martial art slike we are to sports. They play 2 or 3, and reaching shodan in Japan does not confer anything, only that you have chosen to study this art diligently.

-Nick
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2000, 09:55 AM   #12
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 6,049
Offline
I agree with AikiTom on this point, actually. It sounds like Nick has some romanticized notions about my "fair" country. Most "modern" Japanse people I met when I was doing research there at a university in Tokyo were a lot more interested in sports like rugby and tennis. When I went back a few years back and told some of them that I was going to Aikikai Hombu Dojo to train, they made "karate chop" hand motions in indicating what they knew about the art -- hardly anything.

You're right that pretty much anyone in a university club or such can attain shodan in one year and that it doesn't mean much. I think that people outside of Japan have placed way too much fanfare in people's getting a black belt as though it implied mastery...

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2000, 03:19 PM   #13
AikiTom
Dojo: Aikido Martial Arts Center
Location: Blue Grass, IA
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 84
Offline
Quote:
akiy wrote:
I agree with AikiTom on this point, actually. It sounds like Nick has some romanticized notions about my "fair" country. Most "modern" Japanse people I met when I was doing research there at a university in Tokyo were a lot more interested in sports like rugby and tennis. When I went back a few years back and told some of them that I was going to Aikikai Hombu Dojo to train, they made "karate chop" hand motions in indicating what they knew about the art -- hardly anything.

-- Jun
Was tooling around the Aikido Journal threads and found this:

http://www.aikidojournal.com/ubb/For...ML/000148.html

Reinforces Jun's comments pretty well


May the force be with you!
AikiTom
"Be the change you want to see."
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2000, 05:49 PM   #14
dave
"dave"
IP Hash: 47b8f915
Dojo: nashville aikiki(last)
Join Date: Jun 2000
Anonymous User
Offline
Cool

Quote:
Chuck Clark wrote:
Japanese is the universally accepted technical language of budo practice. If we do not understand the usage properly, as the art continues to spread, we'll all eventually come up with different meanings.



thats a great point chuck,Maybe that should be applied for all words and concepts.

your Kindness IS your greatness
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2000, 12:26 AM   #15
Chuck Clark
 
Chuck Clark's Avatar
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,134
United_States
Offline
Smile

[/b][/quote]Maybe that should be applied for all words and concepts.[/b][/quote]

That phrase ... "that should be ..." sure sounds nice. We usually use it when we want others to do something or when we know what we ought to do but haven't and add the word "but"...

Things never work out the way they "should!"

There "should be" a special enforcement brigade to "make sure" that all of the "should haves and ought to bes" get carried out!

You all let me know when this is about to happen so I can vacate the premisis.

[:-)]





[Edited by Chuck Clark on July 12, 2000 at 12:28am]

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2000, 11:05 PM   #16
Nick
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 563
United_States
Offline
Jun-san:

no offense was intended. I just read it somewhere and thought it might have had some truth. I guess not.

I apologize again-

-Nick
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2000, 11:12 PM   #17
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 6,049
Offline
Quote:
Nick wrote:
no offense was intended. I just read it somewhere and thought it might have had some truth. I guess not.
No offense taken, of course. I think it's a common misconception. What you say may have been true, say, thirty or forty years ago, but I can't say I've seen what you wrote in Japan too often these days...

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Martial artist / Aikidoka Ghost Fox General 35 08-02-2006 10:42 PM
aggresive and arrogant aikidoka aiki-G Anonymous 55 11-19-2005 07:52 AM
Aggressive aikidoka Wondering Anonymous 19 08-30-2005 09:05 AM
How are aikidoka different? opherdonchin Spiritual 30 08-08-2003 07:14 AM
The word "Aikidoka", does it annoy you? virginia_kyu General 43 06-07-2002 04:35 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:03 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate