Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Techniques

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-16-2017, 06:44 AM   #1
StefanHultberg
Dojo: Roskilde
Location: Roskilde
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 17
Denmark
Offline
Escape from ikkyo ??

There are many ways to "escape" ikkyo -- and many ways to stop the escape. There is one particular way to escape ikkyo, though, that I find troubling. Certainly some atemi, good old hair grabbing, a pencil in the nostril could solve the problem, but I'm looking for an elegant, aikido-like solution to my problem.
There are a myriad of ways to perform ikkyo. I will start with a short description of a basic ikkyo in my dojo. This is my foundation for this whole problem & post.
If we assume that I wish to carry out an ikkyo using uke's right arm then, after a good smack toward's uke's face nage will grab uke's right wrist or hand with his (nage's) right hand. Nage's right hand will either encircle uke's wrist with the te gatana on the "pulse-side" or I will have uke's hand in a nikkyo-position. Nage's left hand will be holding uke's arm in such a way that the te-gatana pushes down on uke's arm immediately above the elbow. Nage will then slide forwards, pushing uke's elbow "through" his face (or ear) and continue the movement until uke almost loses his balance forwards. Then, at the correct time uke will be pushed diagonally towards the left and down on his stomach.
Now, if uke -- just before he loses his balance -- makes a roll over his left arm then he is out of the ikkyo - not necessarily out of trouble, though, as he is very vulnerable to many other techniques just as he is coming out of the roll and is on his back.
Ikkyo can easily be turned into a kokyunage if, at the end of the technique, nage does not put uke on his stomach, but uses uke's arm and a "push" towards the side of uke in order to throw him forwards, sometimes into a roll. This is the intentional use of ikkyo as a kokyunage whereas I am talking about the unintentional roll of uke when performing basic ikkyo, i.e. not as a throw but as a controlled takedown and lock with uke on his stomach.
I have found two ways to stop uke rolling -- both quite difficult and very sensitive to timing. Either (if holding uke's hand in the nikkyo-position) one can pull up and back on uke's elbow, thus turning the ikkyo into a nikkyo and thus blocking the escape-roll. This is either done by grabbing uke's gi (or other clothes) at the elbow or actually letting the left hand swivel towards the "opposite" (inner) side of uke's elbow. Alternatively one can push uke much more straight down in the final move, thus trapping uke's head (face) against the ground, essentially placing the head (face) of uke as a block against the roll.
Both of these "stops" have to be executed early, as soon as uke's roll has actually begun it makes much more sense to control uke as his roll is about to finish and he is on his back.
Alternatively, if timed correctly, one can change the strategy when uke has started the roll and turn the ikkyo into the kokyunage, sending him on his way by using his own roll-energy combined with a push and ki-extension of nage.
Does anybody have a suggestion on how to optimally stop uke from rolling out of "my" basic ikkyo?
Please let me know if it sounds like I've confused left/right or something else somewhere, damn it's not easy to describe techniques in text !!

All the best
Stefan
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2017, 06:16 PM   #2
rugwithlegs
Dojo: Open Sky Aikikai
Location: Durham, NC
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 364
United_States
Offline
Re: Escape from ikkyo ??

There are a number of ways. I like Saito sensei's three levels of timing - very early (almost uke attacking, a Jodan version of shomenuchi ikkyo), a chudan version a little later in the technique, and the arm getting all the way behind the back, and then eventually all the way to the ground.

Bruce Bookman showed me that morotedori is basically ikkyo, and kotegaeshi, and nikyo, and sankyo, etc. two hands on one, with subtle variations in the hands.

The reversals are about learning the holes in the basic techniques, and then learning to fill the holes in. Mi don't approach reversals asa way of reversing anything but rather a way to improve the technique being reversed, or seeing when the technique should be discarded in favor of another. My two cents, hope that made sense.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2017, 09:00 PM   #3
Rupert Atkinson
 
Rupert Atkinson's Avatar
Dojo: Wherever I am.
Location: New Zealand
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 915
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Escape from ikkyo ??

Ikkyo is off balance and cut down. If you do it fast uke will be cut down. If you do it slow, uke has time to think .... after cutting down I sometimes reverse the arm a-la-nikyo/rokyo, and carry on. A good uke can sometimes slip out ... which is good ... we should all try to be 'slippery' as uke. Other ukes might be starting to counter, knowingly or not, which is not quite the same game.

  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2017, 10:43 PM   #4
Riai Maori
 
Riai Maori's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 151
New Zealand-Maori
Offline
Re: Escape from ikkyo ??

Instead of grabbing the elbow, grab their shoulder and weight underside with your body take them immediately to ground driving their shoulder strait down. It ain't pretty, but takes away their ability to roll out.Just another variation of the technique.

Motto tsuyoku
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2017, 10:50 AM   #5
rugwithlegs
Dojo: Open Sky Aikikai
Location: Durham, NC
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 364
United_States
Offline
Re: Escape from ikkyo ??

Sorry, read it a bit more clearly. The zig zag, and the downward trajectory is probably needing some refinement that I cannot picture. If they are being projected away and forward, then the roll is easier.

I am assuming you're a nice guy - for uke to be rolling, their head is going to lead the motion but you are not smashing their skull into the mat. The zig zag can be a part of a leg sweep or a knee to the ribs, then a knee drop on the back of the shoulder.

What happens when you do hanmihandachi ikkyo? Specifically the variation with no large body movement.

When standing, are you having uke' decide to roll or are they already in flight and rolling?
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ikkyo from the guard Kevin Leavitt "Off-The-Mat" 15 06-05-2006 02:58 PM
Question on Ki-ai and Ikkyo PaulieWalnuts Techniques 1 04-07-2004 12:42 PM
Survey of Ikkyo variants thomasgroendal Techniques 14 06-21-2002 09:27 AM
Meannig of Ikkyo andrea anzalone Techniques 10 09-29-2001 05:06 AM
Help needed: school project on ikkyo jxa127 General 7 10-24-2000 09:58 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:06 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2017 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2017 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate