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05-17-2007, 04:16 AM
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#1
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Dojo: Griffith Aikido Yuishinkai
Location: Brisbane
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 120
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Lines of power
I have searched for anything on the shapes of aikido and the lines and angles that ueshiba sensei lectured on. I have found nothing, surely this has been hammered out some where before, any suggestions?
Also, it occured to me that the basic shapes of aikido don't exist in two dimension but are more likely three dimension, eg the dynamic sphere, does anyone have any ideas on the 'irresistable cube' for example?
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05-17-2007, 08:02 AM
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#2
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Dojo: Aikido Eastside
Location: Bellevue, WA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,670
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Re: Lines of power
Quote:
Aran Bright wrote:
I have searched for anything on the shapes of aikido and the lines and angles that ueshiba sensei lectured on. I have found nothing, surely this has been hammered out some where before, any suggestions?
Also, it occured to me that the basic shapes of aikido don't exist in two dimension but are more likely three dimension, eg the dynamic sphere, does anyone have any ideas on the 'irresistable cube' for example?
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Actually, O-Sensei talked very little about technical issues like this. He did talk about the triangle, circle, square but more in terms of the energetic significance. Saotome Sensei says that in fifteen years of training with the Founder, he can remember three times when O-Sensei talked about how to do technique.
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05-18-2007, 04:57 PM
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#3
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Dojo: Northampton Ki Aikido Club
Location: Northampton
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 134
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Re: Lines of power
Terry Dobson wrote that even though O Sensei spoke of the triangle, circle and square, it was difficult to get a clear explanation of what he meant.
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05-19-2007, 03:14 AM
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#4
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Dojo: Griffith Aikido Yuishinkai
Location: Brisbane
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 120
Offline
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Re: Lines of power
Do you know that diaghram that is basically a circle inside a square that has the four lines cutting across it?
Does that mean anything to you?
I have heard teachers talk about cutting along the diagonals, does this ring a bell?
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05-21-2007, 11:01 AM
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#5
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Dojo: 鷹松道場|Takamatsu Dojo ATL
Location: ATL--GA
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 221
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Re: Lines of power
I'll share a model using the that has come down to my dojo as a model of the training progression.
The first stage which is concerned with acting as a wedge that is strong, stable and piercing with its sharp point.
The next in which action becomes more plastic and dynamic while still containing the triangle.
The last in which the entire space is filled and one has already mastered and controlled each situation; again containing both the circle and triangle within it.
Take it for what it's worth.
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-Doug Walker
新道楊心流の鷹松道場
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05-24-2007, 10:03 AM
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#6
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Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
Offline
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Re: Lines of power
Quote:
Aran Bright wrote:
Do you know that diaghram that is basically a circle inside a square that has the four lines cutting across it?
Does that mean anything to you?
I have heard teachers talk about cutting along the diagonals, does this ring a bell?
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These symbols together are found in the American Indian medicine wheel and Spirit Catchers. Follow the lines precisely, the very simple diagrams that you have seen photograghed with O'Sensei lecturing near the chalkboard, find them and work 45degree angles for a while. Then consider how they are related to a natural concept of 'the whole ', using nature, like a flowing stream, as your guide. Listen, you can hear it . Quiet your spirit through sword cuts and then allow natural inspiration to flow in.
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Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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05-24-2007, 02:03 PM
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#7
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Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,276
Offline
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Re: Lines of power
Quote:
Aran Bright wrote:
I have heard teachers talk about cutting along the diagonals, does this ring a bell?
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I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but there's a good Shinto cosmology at the Tsubaki America web site regarding , if you're interested.
Also, to me it sounds like maybe you're describing the shikaku (dead angles). For example in the forearm, relatively speaking the ulna and the radius can be thought of as constituting a "vertical" axis; perpendicular to that axis would be the "horizontal" and bisecting those axes are the shikaku...as I think I understand it anyway. Theoretically, your structure should be strong to the sides even when you're facing forward. The example I'm most familiar with is a static stance where you have someone push from the front, back and sides (shoulders/upper arm), then they push on the shikaku and the posture begins to twist.
Then again you might be refering to the idea that it's harder to side-step a diagonal cut than a vertical one?
At any rate, one thing that sparked my initial interest to Aikido was the beautiful geometry. Reading Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere did a lot to give me some of my initial appreciation for Aikido.
Take care,
Matthew
Last edited by mathewjgano : 05-24-2007 at 02:07 PM.
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Gambarimashyo!
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05-25-2007, 07:10 AM
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#8
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Dojo: Griffith Aikido Yuishinkai
Location: Brisbane
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 120
Offline
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Re: Lines of power
Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote:
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but there's a good Shinto cosmology at the Tsubaki America web site regarding , if you're interested.
Also, to me it sounds like maybe you're describing the shikaku (dead angles). For example in the forearm, relatively speaking the ulna and the radius can be thought of as constituting a "vertical" axis; perpendicular to that axis would be the "horizontal" and bisecting those axes are the shikaku...as I think I understand it anyway. Theoretically, your structure should be strong to the sides even when you're facing forward. The example I'm most familiar with is a static stance where you have someone push from the front, back and sides (shoulders/upper arm), then they push on the shikaku and the posture begins to twist.
Then again you might be refering to the idea that it's harder to side-step a diagonal cut than a vertical one?
At any rate, one thing that sparked my initial interest to Aikido was the beautiful geometry. Reading Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere did a lot to give me some of my initial appreciation for Aikido.
Take care,
Matthew
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That's exactly what I am getting at, Shikaku. Are you able to tell me more?
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05-26-2007, 03:22 AM
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#9
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Dojo: none currently
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 499
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Re: Lines of power
Triangle=The lower points represent uke and sh'te's points of contact with ground while in midst of attack/defense? The upper point represents their connection upon contact?
Circle=Uke and sh'te create a circle with the technique?
Square=Upon completion of the technique, uke and sh'te return to where they should be naturally? Each with their stability of two points represented by their corners?
Maybe.
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05-29-2007, 12:40 PM
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#10
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Dojo: 鷹松道場|Takamatsu Dojo ATL
Location: ATL--GA
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 221
Offline
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Re: Lines of power
Quote:
Jean de Rochefort wrote:
Triangle=The lower points represent uke and sh'te's points of contact with ground while in midst of attack/defense? The upper point represents their connection upon contact?
Circle=Uke and sh'te create a circle with the technique?
Square=Upon completion of the technique, uke and sh'te return to where they should be naturally? Each with their stability of two points represented by their corners?
Maybe.
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From my own perspective I would caution against such ideas. If you analyze the way you have structured the interaction both uke and shite are equally balanced in each geometric figure. You even posit an ending in "square" where each has the "stability of two points." In other words an aikidoka has gone though an interaction and nothing has changed. What is the point of that?
You posit a triangle in which two persons have formed a stable arch-like structure. At such a point neither has any advantage and most likely a stalemate will result. Same with your idea about the circle.
I would recommend structuring your thinking into models in which you are the dominant component.
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-Doug Walker
新道楊心流の鷹松道場
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