Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-29-2003, 04:13 AM   #1
drDalek
 
drDalek's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 155
Offline
Other grappling arts

Please recommend to me some other grappling arts I could try, I enjoy Aikido greatly but its my first and only MA so far and I want to get a taste of what else is out there.

I dont want to do a kick/punch MA because frankly just from observing some karate classes, I am bored to tears.

I am thinking of finding a judo / bjj place somewhere.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2003, 04:24 AM   #2
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,319
Japan
Offline
I'ld go for Judo - basically the emphasis on BJJ is the ground while in Judo you get something a bit more balanced. In both you get randori which in most cases Aikido lacks.

I started Judo after I moved here to supplement and help my Aikido - in fact I'm leaving for Judo in about 5 seconds. Good fun.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2003, 06:53 AM   #3
Michael Neal
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 601
Offline
I recommend Judo as well, it compliments Aikido well and you definately won't be bored.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2003, 07:10 AM   #4
Grappler
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 31
Offline
BJJ all the way. Its awesome, the best when it comes to ground grappling. And all the BJJ guys I've met have been great people too.

If there is no BJJ dojo around, try one of the following:

Sambo - sambo is like freestyle wrestling with some submissions allowed. A lot of emphasis on takedowns and leglocks.

Judo - probably the best style to take a gi-wearing opponent to the ground. A lot of emphasis on throws. Not as effective with no gi. It is also an olympic sport, so it has a wide following. But pick the dojo carefully, a lot of bad ones around, especially outside of Japan.

Wrestling (Freestyle/Greco)- Also an olympic sport. If you want grappling with no gi, this is a good pick. It is more of a power game than technique, so a good muscle mass is recommended A lot of emphasis on takedowns and position control on the ground.

The most competent fighters I've met started off as freestyle wrestlers, moved on to BJJ and cross trained in a striking art like boxing or Muay Thai. Master the wrestling-BJJ-kickboxing combo and you'll be a living demolition machine
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2003, 09:15 AM   #5
Eric Joyce
Dojo: Budoshingikan
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 179
United_States
Offline
Wynand,

Either choice is fine. You really can't go wrong.

Eric Joyce
Otake Han Doshin Ryu Jujutsu
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2003, 09:21 AM   #6
L. Camejo
 
L. Camejo's Avatar
Dojo: Ontario Martial Arts
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,423
Canada
Offline
Hi folks,

In my book, Judo and Aikido follow very similar, if not the same principles applied to different combative distances (ma ai).

Have done some Judo and BJJ as well. To me, there is a very easy and logical flow from standing Aikido techs to standing Judo into Judo ne waza (floor grappling). One can easily move back and forth among them depending on the situation in my experience.

If you are looking for something to complement your Aikido with floor grappling and a knowledge of non-aikido type throws and pins, I would recommend Judo. Not to mention, the balance breaking and combination knowledge gained from Judo randori is a major aid to applying Aikido techs and making things effective.

For an Aikidoka I'd recommend the Judo over BJJ, since in Aikido our main area of operation is standing up. BJJ tends to want to get you to the ground to grapple you into submission on the floor, even if you begin the encounter from standing.

Honestly, I think if you are in control from a standing position (which is our aim in Aikido), why risk going to the ground and then trying to establish a superior position to apply tech? For the ground work, the BJJ is great, but I've seen nothing that makes it that different from skillfully applied Judo.

It depends on what you are looking for as said earlier. To a person not inclined to either one, I'd say try both. But having tried both BJJ and Judo, I prefer the Judo. Just blends better with the Aikido I do, which was founded by a high ranking Judoka and Aikidoka.

Check out the dojos, do some classes, see what feels best before you decide. In my book, certain people are predisposed to certain types of martial arts, psychologically and otherwise.

To be an effective fighter though, master the 3 basic realms of unarmed combat - standup striking, standup locking/throwing and floor grappling.

Hope this helps.

L.C.

Last edited by L. Camejo : 05-29-2003 at 09:25 AM.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2003, 11:25 AM   #7
Kensai
Location: South West UK
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 216
Offline
I cross train in Judo. I think they gel very well, and dont really have many opposing ideas ie tensing for strikes (like karate).

Like Peter said, the more free Randori of Judo helps your reactions which you can apply to jiyu kumite in your Aikido when you get to that level.

"Minimum Effort, Maximum Effciency."
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2003, 12:29 PM   #8
Daniel Blanco
Dojo: Suffolk Aikikai
Location: Patchogue
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 98
Offline
HELLO PETER AND ALL I HAVE NEVER TAKEN ANY OTHER MA. AIKIDO IS THE ONLY ART I STUDY FOR TWO YEARS NOW BECAUSE OF MY LAW ENFORCEMENY JOB. BUT I THINK I MIGHT CROSS TRAIN IN JUDO. PETER DO YOU THINK IT WILL HELP HE AS A POLICE OFFICER JUDO THAT IS.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2003, 12:31 PM   #9
Daniel Blanco
Dojo: Suffolk Aikikai
Location: Patchogue
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 98
Offline
PETER HOW HAVE YOU BEEN AND FAMILY HOPE ALL ARE FINE I SAID HI TO SENSEI GENE FOR YOU.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2003, 01:41 PM   #10
Dross
 
Dross's Avatar
Dojo: Goleta Cultural School
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 22
Offline
Aren't police in Japan are trained in Judo?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2003, 01:43 PM   #11
Dave Miller
 
Dave Miller's Avatar
Dojo: UCO Budo Society
Location: Oklahoma
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 204
Offline
Aikido is often called "Judo at a distance". This is, at least in part, perhaps due to Tomiki. He was one of Kano's judo students. So the story goes, Kano sent Tomiki to O-sensei to learn about this new thing called Aiki-budo. Kano wanted Tomiki to teach it to him so he could see if it might improve his Judo. Tomiki liked Aiki-budo so much that he stayed and developed his own style of Aikido and his own system for teaching it.

I know several shinans who are yudansha in both Judo and Aikido and they all highly recommend Judo as a compliment to Aikido and vice versa.

DAVE

If you're working too hard, you're doing it wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2003, 03:56 PM   #12
Kensai
Location: South West UK
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 216
Offline
The Japanese Riot Police train in Yoshinkan Aikido...... damn ruffens...... lol

"Minimum Effort, Maximum Effciency."
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2003, 06:50 PM   #13
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,319
Japan
Offline
Hi Daniel;

First of all for sanities sake - control those caps - sounds like you are shouting. Gene has got a good dojo - some good strong characters in there. I would not do less of that just to do Judo. Both Judo and Aikido from what I understand are better suited for police work than the punch/kick arts from a tactical point of view.

Some of the Tokyo Riot (apparently the majority do not) do a year long Aikido course at Yoshinkan Honbu. I do not know what is taught at their training academy. I do know that Tetsuro Nariyama, Shodokan Honbu Shihan and my teacher, instructs at the Osaka Police Academy. I have no idea how different that stuff is to what we learn.

Finally Chris - Judo gives more of an opprotunity to mix things up than your Aikido. This is probably an important area to work on as a police officer. In Japan most do Judo.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2003, 12:39 PM   #14
Jesse Lee
Dojo: Tenzan Aikido, formerly named Seattle Aikikai
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 94
Offline
It boils down to how you want to use your time. If you want more takedowns and less groundwork, try judo. If you want almost exclusive groundwork, go for BJJ.

Personally I agree with Andrew; I get off on BJJ. Feels like a great compliment to Aikido, maybe b/c it is *not* as similar to aikido as judo.

, can't find m s
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2003, 09:40 AM   #15
Dave Miller
 
Dave Miller's Avatar
Dojo: UCO Budo Society
Location: Oklahoma
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 204
Offline
Goshen ryu:

Pardon if my spelling is off. We have recently started introducing some of the kata of Goshen ryu into our regular workouts. As I understand it, Goshen ryu is a part of the Judo kata that is more of a blending of Judo and Aikido. The techniques definitely bear similarities to both.

Is anyone else familiar with this?

DAVE

If you're working too hard, you're doing it wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2003, 09:58 AM   #16
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,615
United_States
Offline
Check with Mark F. over in the judo section of e-budo. I believe you are refering to the goshin kata in judo which is meant to preserve some of the more "combative" principles of the koryu from which judo is derived. They should have some good posts in that forum on this.

RT

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2003, 11:06 AM   #17
Dave Miller
 
Dave Miller's Avatar
Dojo: UCO Budo Society
Location: Oklahoma
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 204
Offline
Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Check with Mark F. over in the judo section of e-budo. I believe you are refering to the goshin kata in judo which is meant to preserve some of the more "combative" principles of the koryu from which judo is derived. They should have some good posts in that forum on this.

RT
I think that's what I'm talking about. I probably should have written Goshin jitsu rather than Goshin ryu. As an old Okinawan martial artist, I tend to write ryu when I mean jitsu.


DAVE

If you're working too hard, you're doing it wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2003, 06:41 PM   #18
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,319
Japan
Offline
Quote:
Dave Miller wrote:
I think that's what I'm talking about. I probably should have written Goshin jitsu rather than Goshin ryu. As an old Okinawan martial artist, I tend to write ryu when I mean jitsu.
The main guy involved in the committee that came up with Goshin Jutsu was of course Kenji Tomiki - the reason there is a strong Aikido influence. They did troll several Koryu for suitable techniques but most have a very strong aiki-flavour.

As a Shodokan person it is quite common to see references to other Koryu Jujutsu styles when discussing a technique (as also found there) and even though it is an Aikido technique, a kata is taken from the koryu and learnt that way.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2003, 11:33 PM   #19
sanosuke
Dojo: Seigi Dojo
Location: Jakarta
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 247
Indonesia
Offline
Here's what I recommend:

Judo - good grappling and kuzushi techniques

BJJ - Basically Just Judo

How about taichi?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2003, 09:19 AM   #20
justinm
Location: Maidenhead
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 167
United Kingdom
Offline
Cornish Wrestling.

Justin McCarthy
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2003, 11:55 AM   #21
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 837
Offline
No one has brought up what I believe are two very important questions.

1. Is it necessary to go outside your chosen martial art? (for us, Aikido)

2. If yes, when would be a good time to start studying a supplementary martial art?

In my opinion, the biggest problem beginners run into is setting aside what they have learned before and clearly seeing and then trying what they are now being presented with. Again, just my opinion, but I feel that we should dive into the martial art we have chosen, as deeply as possible, for at least five years (should be longer) before we look into another martial art.

I have read that Masaaki Hatsumi has said that it takes the guy who has done five years of Judo, five years to get all of the Judo out of his system to start at zero, in year six, to learn the new art. I think this is a bit of an exaggeration, but there is a lot of wisdom in the statement.

Charles
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2003, 12:55 PM   #22
Peter Klein
Dojo: Aikido Kreis Koeln (Germany)
Location: Cologne
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 70
Offline
thai boxing,aikido,bjj jesus what a mix! you will be very skilled if you mix those arts
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2003, 12:55 PM   #23
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 768
Offline
Quote:
1. Is it necessary to go outside your chosen martial art? (for us, Aikido)
Possibly. Depending upon an individual's goals and the aikido training available to them.
Quote:
2. If yes, when would be a good time to start studying a supplementary martial art?
As soon as the need is recognized, provided the individual is able to do so. I presume "supplementary" indicates a the situation where one person is seeking to improve their performance by focusing on a particular weakness. It just so happens the perceived weakness is best addressed in another art. So, I would suggest starting the other art when the need is recognized, and leaving when the weakness is no longer present.

Regards,

Paul
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2003, 06:48 PM   #24
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 837
Offline
Paul,

How does one know whether the weakness is in the art being studied or just in one's self?

I heard that the Thai Buddhist teacher Ajaan Chah used to tell the story of the monk who dropped his bag in a pile of shit one day. The monk soon left the temple and went to another temple. Then he left that temple and went to another still carrying the bag. Finally he ended up in the first temple again. The head monk asked him why he moved around so much. The monk answered, "Because every temple I go to, stinks so bad."

Charles
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2003, 05:10 AM   #25
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 768
Offline
Charles,
Quote:
How does one know whether the weakness is in the art being studied or just in one's self?
A couple of responses come to mind.

1. Does it really matter? As long as the weakness is correctly identified and fixed, is it really important where and how it was done?

2. Honesty and Education. There will always be people that claim one art has all the answers. Investigate and explore those claims. Consider the amount of time needed to reach your individual goals and plan accordingly.

Regards,

Paul
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
JUTSU - DO arts, technically different? bratzo_barrena General 2 12-01-2006 10:02 AM
Other arts in the dojo? Stanley Archacki General 13 07-17-2006 07:37 PM
Highest Level Martial Arts and Aikido Mike Sigman General 240 08-12-2005 06:22 PM
Something I wrote for a few friends of mine (long) drDalek General 1 11-18-2002 08:44 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:51 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate