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07-24-2007, 05:34 PM
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#101
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Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,646
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Re: Aikido Techniques are Weapons Techniques
Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Good post Chris. One question...if someone can extend the power of their body out to their own limbs...could that change the nature of your equation?
Best,
Ron
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Well I'm not really sure where you're going here, but I'd say no...
Proper body use does enable you to move your body weight and larger muscle groups (legs and back) through your arms. Making your arms more powerful. But this isn't an advantage for the grabber (uke in Aikido techniques). What he wants to do is to grab and control the center of the other guy. More links in a chain makes this harder ( the other guys elbow and shoulder). It's much simpler, and more powerful to directly grab the body. However if they are armed doing that will get you killed.
Now for the guy being grabbed it can be an advantage, But also a disadvantage. The guy being grabbed wants to stay as flexible as possible. This makes it harder for the grabber (uke) to control your center. But being able to suddenly use the power of the whole body through the limbs can make escaping much easier.
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07-25-2007, 07:16 AM
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#102
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Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,615
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Re: Aikido Techniques are Weapons Techniques
Thanks Chris! While I don't always completely agree with your perspective, it seems very well thought out and logical to me.
Best,
Ron
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Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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07-25-2007, 07:46 AM
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#103
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Dojo: Taikyoku Budo & Kiko - NY, PA, MD
Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,000
Offline
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Re: Aikido Techniques are Weapons Techniques
I'll second Ron's comment. Chris, even if I don't always agree with your conclusions, I very much appreciate the "research" (in aikido and other arts, through drills, sparring, etc.) you (and Mr. Varin) are putting into practice in order to form them.
I tend to make it out to the Bay Area (Oakland) each year. If you guys are available and close enough - I'd love to get together to vist/play and trade notes.
Best,
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07-25-2007, 09:37 AM
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#104
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Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,646
Offline
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Re: Aikido Techniques are Weapons Techniques
Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote:
I tend to make it out to the Bay Area (Oakland) each year. If you guys are available and close enough - I'd love to get together to vist/play and trade notes.
Best,
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Our school is open to anyone interested in training. You're welcome any time.
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07-25-2007, 09:48 AM
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#105
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Dojo: Taikyoku Budo & Kiko - NY, PA, MD
Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,000
Offline
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Re: Aikido Techniques are Weapons Techniques
Excellent, thanks! Probably won't be until next winter/spring, but I'll definitely follow up with you by PM at that point.
Best,
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07-26-2007, 08:52 PM
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#106
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Dojo: Yoshokai; looking into judo
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 434
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Re: Aikido Techniques are Weapons Techniques
This evening, I ended a reasonably long non-training spell (a month or more?), and did aikido with some friends who are also "stranded" from a dojo post-college. I tried out Chris' suggestion, and found the results pretty striking. (Although of course this is only a preliminary experience.)
We started out as for normal grappling, but one person had a tanto slipped into his or her belt. (We began with maybe slightly closer than normal kamae distance.) We pretty much stopped it as soon as one person had clearly got the knife and could strike with it, in part to avoid injuries. Aikido techniques appeared seemingly very naturally, and worked out rather well. (I felt that there was also a lot of room for judo-style sweeps.)
We also tried other setups, like the person having the tanto out and the other person having a grab of their choice. We also tried both people having tanto in their belts. We then did some with a bokken in the belt instead. The bokken actually seemed nearly useless at close range; also, body grapples seemed much more functional for the unarmed person.
Now, I should emphasize that we were a trio of aikido people, so we're arguably more prone to expecting the techniques to happen -- we might have been biased that way. I might end up trying this with a friendly wrestler or BJJer too -- I'm anxious about it appearing to be a challenge rather than an experiment, but I think it might work out with some of them. (I'll see if they wander up to us in free grappling and ask what we're doing with that wooden knife, perhaps.) I suspect there might be a wrestling way of doing this too -- but it's possible that it will end up looking a lot like aikido.
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07-26-2007, 09:00 PM
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#107
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Dojo: Yoshokai; looking into judo
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 434
Offline
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Re: Aikido Techniques are Weapons Techniques
I'll also add that, as Chris has argued so cogently, aikido worked probably better for the person with the tanto than the person without. It was easy to forget this, and we had to remind ourselves periodically at first.
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07-27-2007, 12:55 AM
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#108
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Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,646
Offline
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Re: Aikido Techniques are Weapons Techniques
HA, GREAT!
Like I've said before, you don't have to take my word for it, train it and see what happens!
Awesome Paul, please post any further results.
Tonight we trained multiple people against one armed person. A practice like this quickly gives you an understanding of why Aikido's techniques are useful and necessary.
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07-27-2007, 01:09 AM
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#109
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Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
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Re: Aikido Techniques are Weapons Techniques
Action shot from Ken-no-tebiki practice:
Tori: Nishio Sensei
Uke: Shishiya Sensei
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Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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07-27-2007, 09:47 AM
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#110
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Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
Location: Malibu, California
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,295
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Re: Aikido Techniques are Weapons Techniques
Cool Shot of Sensei there Cito.
William Hazen
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07-28-2007, 12:20 PM
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#111
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Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
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Re: Aikido Techniques are Weapons Techniques
Quote:
Chris Hein wrote:
Our school is open to anyone interested in training. You're welcome any time.
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I'd love to coordinate with that visit if it were possible. Let me know if any travel plans develop ( I'm a barger). Otherwise, I might just mosey on down by my lonesome if that is acceptable etiquette in your neck of the woods.
You are all welcome to come train with me at any of my dojo, if you would like. They're all in Santa Cruz, so it's a nice destination for a mini-vacation. (If you'e poet and you don't know it. Oops, hope I didn't blow it. Computer getting the better of me...best not to throw it....) Ha-Ha. Just kidding around.
Anyhow, I'd sincerely love to meet and train with any and all of you. I hope the opportunity comes soon.
Thanks, Jen
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Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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