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Old 06-15-2010, 09:46 PM   #1
Andrew Macdonald
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Sensei and size

I have been checking through a few websites and something occured to me. There seems to be a large number of higher ranking sensei and shihan that are a little on the large side, no disrespect intended but it does raise a few questions.

does anyone have any thought on this
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Old 06-15-2010, 11:39 PM   #2
crbateman
 
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Re: Sensei and size

Quote:
Andrew Macdonald wrote: View Post
does anyone have any thought on this
I would, if I could reach my keyboard...
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Old 06-15-2010, 11:58 PM   #3
Nafis Zahir
 
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Re: Sensei and size

Quote:
Andrew Macdonald wrote: View Post
I have been checking through a few websites and something occured to me. There seems to be a large number of higher ranking sensei and shihan that are a little on the large side, no disrespect intended but it does raise a few questions.

does anyone have any thought on this

Many, but not all, have stopped training. They may instruct, but many of them do not train anymore.

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Old 06-16-2010, 12:50 AM   #4
Darryl Cowens
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Re: Sensei and size

I remember visiting a dojo a couple of times, and the dan grades did not train with the 'students'. They didn't even warm up, or take warm up. That was delegated to one of the higher kyu grade. They would demonstrate the techniques for the evening using a senior kyu grade, but didn't actually train with the students.

Each of the instructors alternated a night each to instruct the training, but I did have a chuckle that on the night the highest ranked instructor was set to instruct, the 'least senior' of the instructors took training instead, while he kinda just looked on watching the whole night.. lol..
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Old 06-16-2010, 04:10 AM   #5
Shadowfax
 
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Re: Sensei and size

When you have been training for as long as they have you will have your answer, I suspect.
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Old 06-16-2010, 05:14 AM   #6
dps
 
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Re: Sensei and size

Quote:
Andrew Macdonald wrote: View Post
I have been checking through a few websites and something occured to me. There seems to be a large number of higher ranking sensei and shihan that are a little on the large side, no disrespect intended but it does raise a few questions.

does anyone have any thought on this
Their dojo is prosperous?

David

Go ahead, tread on me.
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Old 06-16-2010, 05:30 AM   #7
Ketsan
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Re: Sensei and size

Quote:
Andrew Macdonald wrote: View Post
I have been checking through a few websites and something occured to me. There seems to be a large number of higher ranking sensei and shihan that are a little on the large side, no disrespect intended but it does raise a few questions.

does anyone have any thought on this
That's because the most exercise some of these people get is standing up from and getting into seiza and maybe a bit of walking around the mat.
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Old 06-16-2010, 05:58 AM   #8
fisher6000
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Re: Sensei and size

I've always attributed that to the notion that aikido is supposed to be really efficient.

There are often a good number of shihan on the mat at my dojo, and they don't work very hard when they train. Instead, they work smart.

It's interesting, at a well-attended class, to look down the row and see someone like me who's in the kyu zone and working really hard, next to a pair of younger shodan who are still figuring out how to find efficiencies, next to someone who's found a lot of power in efficiency like Harvey Konigsberg. Everyone's doing the same technique, but very differently.
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Old 06-16-2010, 06:14 AM   #9
Mark Peckett
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Re: Sensei and size

I'm all in favour of efficient aikido. Also eating and drinking sensibly and exercising moderately.
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Old 06-16-2010, 06:36 AM   #10
DonMagee
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Re: Sensei and size

This is how ninja's win fights against aikidoka. They get you hooked on cheeseburgers. Then while you are worried about strikes from katanas and teh deadly street you don't even notice the slow death from heart disease.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:03 AM   #11
SeiserL
 
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Re: Sensei and size

Perhaps because Aikido is based in skill not physical strength size does not matter (large or small)?

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:14 AM   #12
TreyPrice
 
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Re: Sensei and size

The weight issue is different from the training issue. I am 30lbs. above my weight when I was 20 and training. I am also 25 years older. For most of us weight comes with age. It should not become a problem with our health.

as for the training issue...

I have been in several dojos and saw dan grades doing more talking than training. It burns me. I train hard from start to finish. If anything I allow lower grades to get a few more reps in when they are making progress.

Excessive weight and "stand around" aikido hurts credibility, and hinders the training of others. All Aikidoka have a responsibility to train one another when they are in a dojo.
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:54 AM   #13
DonMagee
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Re: Sensei and size

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
Perhaps because Aikido is based in skill not physical strength size does not matter (large or small)?
You and I both know that physical fitness matters no matter what your skill. If your so fat you can't walk 3 spaces without passing out it doesn't matter how much aikido skill you may have had in your youth.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:41 AM   #14
Andrew Macdonald
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Re: Sensei and size

this was at least one of the points i was getting at

A lot of people worry about effective Aikido, one of the very important steps to being effective is being fit enough to fight
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Old 06-16-2010, 10:14 AM   #15
oisin bourke
 
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Re: Sensei and size

I think chronic joint damage (especially to the hips and knees) has a lot to do with it.
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Old 06-16-2010, 10:58 AM   #16
jonreading
 
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Re: Sensei and size

I feel like this is a set-up...

Depending on the year and the source, I think the US reports about 30% of its population as "obese"; bump that number up to 60% if you quantify "overweight" (and heavier) Americans. 6 of 10 Americans are heavier [than they should be]. Demographically, there is also a higher concentration of obesity in the South. Look around the dojo... I don't know if its just sensei who packing a couple extra pounds...

I think sensei plays a role model and in that sense we need to be conscious of the image and role we portray. Sensei may have some extra factors which make her more vulnerable to obesity (activity participation, exercise routine, injury, age, etc.). But I think most aikido dojo have an obesity issue, largely because the country has one.

Would you go to a gym whose members were not fit or in the process of becoming fit? It may be superficial...but we want to envision what we will become. ..
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Old 06-16-2010, 06:31 PM   #17
fisher6000
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Re: Sensei and size

Honestly I think it's too easy to assume that a dan-rank with a "big center" is not fit enough to kick your butt, or otherwise judge.

There are a lot of factors in someone's weight gain over many years. What kind of calories are they consuming? What's their metabolism? How many idle weeks have accumulated because of injury? Desk job? Sleep schedule? Kids?

I've trained hard with a lot of dan-ranked men with big bellies who leave me huffing and puffing.

Fat does not equal lazy.
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:26 PM   #18
Lyle Laizure
 
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Re: Sensei and size

Quote:
Andrew Macdonald wrote: View Post
I have been checking through a few websites and something occured to me. There seems to be a large number of higher ranking sensei and shihan that are a little on the large side, no disrespect intended but it does raise a few questions.

does anyone have any thought on this
What questions does this raise for you Andrew?

Lyle Laizure
www.hinodedojo.com
Deru kugi wa uta reru
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Old 06-16-2010, 11:50 PM   #19
ShanRCarter
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Re: Sensei and size

I'm a bit low on the totem pole to have a consternation about my senseis' conformation (which is just fine, if anyone wants my opinion). I'm just trying to keep up. I think I can learn from someone whatever one's size.

And here's a thought: I wear a larger gi jacket to ensure full coverage. I've also lost 1 stone 6 (keeping up is hard work!), but one can't tell with all of that fabric. Perhaps gentlemen with barrel chests have this predicament?

My point is that what I get out of aikido has little to do with subjective factors of someone else's state of fitness. I have plenty of other stuff to worry about.

"I am different than yesterday's me."
--Sakamoto Ryoma
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:24 AM   #20
ShanRCarter
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Re: Sensei and size

Quote:
Jon Reading wrote: View Post
Would you go to a gym whose members were not fit or in the process of becoming fit? It may be superficial...but we want to envision what we will become. ..
I thought the purpose of a gym was to get people in shape as well as maintaining fitness. One would be very intimidated being the only "Before" in a room full of "Afters." So I'm comfortable seeing people of all shapes and sizes improving their health. Same with the dojo.

As far as envisioning what we become--if I "envision" an unattainable goal based on the images thrown at us on what society thinks I should be, what are my chances of "becoming" it without resorting to destructive behaviour? I could throw up everything I ate, exercise five hours a day everyday, go on a fad diet, and resorted to cosmetic surgery, and there's still no guarantee I'll end up like a Victoria's Secret model. I have guaranteed I'm worse off than I was before I did all of that.

What I envision is being able to practice aikido until I breathe my last breath. Health, not so much size, is a big component of that. I say that because we spend a lot of time "worrying" about obesity and say nothing about the health risks of being underweight. There's a middle ground, a balance we're looking for, are we not? And shouldn't our individual balance come from within instead of external factors like statistics or other people's appearances?

Last edited by ShanRCarter : 06-17-2010 at 12:37 AM. Reason: Spelling and continuing my thought

"I am different than yesterday's me."
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Old 06-17-2010, 01:19 AM   #21
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Sensei and size

interesting ...

Only very few sensei I know are large. 95% are very well trained and have a sporty figure.
So I don't worry and don't think about the two or three who are large.

Can't believe that it should be really different in the US?

And: Don't take those sensei ukemi for their sensei or shihan?

Carsten
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Old 06-17-2010, 01:31 AM   #22
Eva Antonia
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Re: Sensei and size

Hello,

I made the same observation but got to another conclusion. In my opinion aikido is just a martial art that rather favours heavy people. They have a better equilibrium, are more difficult to get out of balance, roll better ...the only disadvantage they might have is that once they move dynamically and someone MANAGES to take their balance they rather thunder down than fly.

So I suppose this encourages them to go on. If they would do something else, let's say athletics, either they wouldn't succeed or the would become thinner. In aikido, they can become very good and still remain with their initial size.

Another question, to which In have NOT found an answer, is - why doesn't hard aikido training make people lose weight?

Best regards,

Eva
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Old 06-17-2010, 03:53 AM   #23
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Sensei and size

Quote:
Eva Röben wrote: View Post
Another question, to which In have NOT found an answer, is - why doesn't hard aikido training make people lose weight?
Well one year after I started aikido, I wanted to lose weight and lost some 25 kg.
So the way we train it works, if you want to. In my experience it works a lot better than e.g. runnig.

Quote:
I made the same observation but got to another conclusion. In my opinion aikido is just a martial art that rather favours heavy people.
Hm, I don't agree. Most of the few heavy people doing aikido I know have problems with stamina - they run out of air fast - and with their flexibility - they can't move for proper ukemi.

Quote:
So I suppose this encourages them to go on. If they would do something else, let's say athletics, either they wouldn't succeed or the would become thinner. In aikido, they can become very good and still remain with their initial size.
Well my experiences are different.
We only have one person with overweigth in our dojo: He formerly did kyokushinkai karate than had an accident, stayed in hospital nearly one year and became very large. But his ability stayed on.
There are very few beginners with overweight who try aikido. And up to this day none of them stayed with us.

Im a little confused.
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:59 AM   #24
Eva Antonia
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Re: Sensei and size

Hi Carsten,

maybe (we) Germans are different ???

But...here in my Belgian dojo
- the sensei is overweight, huge beer belly but moving swiftly and never, ever getting out of breath
- our dan grades, regardless of age, are all blessed with more or less heavy centres
- so are the 1st kyus

...and I made the same observations in Turkey and Côte d'Ivoire and also in other Belgian clubs. I know one 2nd and one 3rd Dan who really train many hours a week; one of them teaches some twenty classes per week...but somehow their waist remains convex with all the training they do. Well, all this is not statistically representative, but it gives some stuff to wonder about.

Bye-bye,

Eva
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Old 06-17-2010, 07:38 AM   #25
ruthmc
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Re: Sensei and size

I'm currently training while pregnant, and the weight and 'center' I have gained have made a difference to my Aikido!

I'm 10lbs heavier now than before, and I can definitely feel a better connection with the ground, use the 'weight underside' principle more effectively. and find that having those extra pounds with which to affect uke's balance has improved my overall effectiveness

Sensei commented on it last week in class, so I have independent confirmation that it is having an effect.

I know a beer belly isn't the same as a pregnant one, but I'm guessing some of the same effects probably come into play

btw Baby loves training and gets quite active - he helps me by kicking when I'm applying a pin to uke's arm

Ruth
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