|
|
Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the
world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to
over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a
wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history,
humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.
If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced
features available, you will need to register first. Registration is
absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!
|
01-18-2008, 04:23 AM
|
#1
|
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 82
Offline
|
Is America the new Rome?
British chieftain Calgacus addressing assembled warriors about Rome's insatiable appetite for conquest and plunder. The chieftain's sentiment can be contrasted to "peace given to the world" which was frequently inscribed on Roman medals. The last part solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant (they make a desert, and call it peace)
The more things change
|
|
|
|
01-18-2008, 10:23 AM
|
#2
|
Dojo: Ft. Myers School of Aikido
Location: Ft. Myers, FL.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 716
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
Quote:
David Chalk wrote:
British chieftain Calgacus addressing assembled warriors about Rome's insatiable appetite for conquest and plunder. The chieftain's sentiment can be contrasted to "peace given to the world" which was frequently inscribed on Roman medals. The last part solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant (they make a desert, and call it peace)
The more things change
|
,the more they stay the same.
Don't worry, David. The corrupt senators who don't give a damn about the people and the peddlers of porn and violence are making sure we fall apart from the inside, just like Rome did. When that finally happens, the world will never have to worry about U.S. military occupation - or foreign aid - ever again. We're perfectly aware that our government is capable of horrible things; just ask the Branch Davidians who are still alive. We are also aware that corruption is everywhere, not just here. We certainly have our faults, but if we chose to be isolationists again the world would get real crappy real fast.
Shall we accentuate the postive and treat each other with respect, and see what we can fix? Or should we just close another thread?
|
"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
|
|
|
01-18-2008, 01:07 PM
|
#3
|
Dojo: Aunkai
Location: Fairfax, VA
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 429
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
I assume you aren't basing this off the fact that "American gladiators" is back on the air?
I wonder what would happen to gas prices/shipping if the American navy stopped patrolling the seas.
|
|
|
|
01-18-2008, 04:03 PM
|
#4
|
Dojo: Ft. Myers School of Aikido
Location: Ft. Myers, FL.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 716
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
Quote:
Hunter Lonsberry wrote:
I assume you aren't basing this off the fact that "American gladiators" is back on the air?
I wonder what would happen to gas prices/shipping if the American navy stopped patrolling the seas.
|
Crud! American Gladiators crossed my mind too, but I forgot to write it!
|
"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
|
|
|
01-21-2008, 09:20 AM
|
#5
|
Location: Flordia
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 300
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
I wish I knew more about Aikido so I could contribute on Aikido threads and not just cruise the off topic forum and catch the typical Love America Hate America stuff.
|
If you're hungry, keep moving.
If you're tired, keep moving.
If you value you're life, keep moving.
You don't own what you can't defend
|
|
|
01-23-2008, 05:05 AM
|
#6
|
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 53
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
Quote:
David Chalk wrote:
British chieftain Calgacus addressing assembled warriors about Rome's insatiable appetite for conquest and plunder. The chieftain's sentiment can be contrasted to "peace given to the world" which was frequently inscribed on Roman medals. The last part solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant (they make a desert, and call it peace)
The more things change
|
And the WWII German Army had "Gott Mit Uns", God is With Us, inscribed on the belt buckles. Though some thought it meant "God has Mittens".
|
|
|
|
01-23-2008, 05:12 AM
|
#7
|
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 53
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
Quote:
James Davis, Jr. wrote:
,the more they stay the same.
Don't worry, David. The corrupt senators who don't give a damn about the people and the peddlers of porn and violence are making sure we fall apart from the inside, just like Rome did. When that finally happens, the world will never have to worry about U.S. military occupation - or foreign aid - ever again. We're perfectly aware that our government is capable of horrible things; just ask the Branch Davidians who are still alive. We are also aware that corruption is everywhere, not just here. We certainly have our faults, but if we chose to be isolationists again the world would get real crappy real fast.
Shall we accentuate the postive and treat each other with respect, and see what we can fix? Or should we just close another thread?
|
What's up with the conflation of "porn" and "violence". The last time I checked porn was about depicting the basic human function of mutual pleasure. It's rather the exact opposite of violence.
|
|
|
|
01-23-2008, 10:17 AM
|
#8
|
Dojo: Ft. Myers School of Aikido
Location: Ft. Myers, FL.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 716
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
Quote:
Charles Scheid wrote:
What's up with the conflation of "porn" and "violence". The last time I checked porn was about depicting the basic human function of mutual pleasure. It's rather the exact opposite of violence.
|
Would anybody else like to field this one?
|
"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
|
|
|
01-28-2008, 09:29 AM
|
#9
|
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 82
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
James
"if we chose to be isolationists again the world would get real crappy real fast".
Contains two clear assumptions - one that it is a matter for the American people - something that is clearly put in doubt by your last two Presidential 'elections'
Secondly - the evidence from certain parts of Latin America doesn't support it either.
Still it's a touching belief
|
|
|
|
01-28-2008, 10:33 AM
|
#10
|
Dojo: Ft. Myers School of Aikido
Location: Ft. Myers, FL.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 716
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
[quote=David Chalk;198098]James
Quote:
David Chalk wrote:
"if we chose to be isolationists again the world would get real crappy real fast".
Contains two clear assumptions - one that it is a matter for the American people - something that is clearly put in doubt by your last two Presidential 'elections'
|
If enough American citizens were really interested in not helping the world any more, you can bet there would be a politician to jump on that bandwagon and ride it into office.
Quote:
David Chalk wrote:
Secondly - the evidence from certain parts of Latin America doesn't support it either.
|
Don't keep us in suspense, David. Tell us what you're referring to.
Quote:
David Chalk wrote:
Still it's a touching belief
|
Touched, were you?
|
"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
|
|
|
01-28-2008, 12:46 PM
|
#11
|
Location: Flordia
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 300
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
Something I recently found out and found interesting and perhaps a little ironic.
Only two countries out of 193(?) choose not to sign a ban on "child soldiers". The US and Somalia. If need be, the US wanted the capability of sending persons younger than 18 to war.
Sgt. 1st Class "Nate" Chapman was the first US soldier killed in Afghanistan in the war on terror and he was killed by a child soldier.
Just found it interestng and perhaps indicative of a society geared towards war.
I believe however the US does not send persons younger than 18 to war. In Canada we will train 16 and 17 year olds but someone needs to be 18 before we can deploy them.
Quote:
James Davis, Jr. wrote:
Touched, were you?
|
Uncalled for and the reasons why threads get locked.
Last edited by Guilty Spark : 01-28-2008 at 12:54 PM.
|
If you're hungry, keep moving.
If you're tired, keep moving.
If you value you're life, keep moving.
You don't own what you can't defend
|
|
|
01-28-2008, 03:50 PM
|
#12
|
Dojo: Ft. Myers School of Aikido
Location: Ft. Myers, FL.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 716
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
Uncalled for and the reasons why threads get locked.
|
I was being cheeky, not insulting.
I would also like to know why my belief was described as "touching". If it's false, tell me why. If someone thinks that I sound naive, then say so and explain why I'm so wrong. There's no need for anyone to be cryptic when we could just speak plainly.
|
"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
|
|
|
01-28-2008, 05:04 PM
|
#13
|
Location: Flordia
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 300
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
Quote:
James Davis, Jr. wrote:
I was being cheeky, not insulting.
I would also like to know why my belief was described as "touching". If it's false, tell me why. If someone thinks that I sound naive, then say so and explain why I'm so wrong. There's no need for anyone to be cryptic when we could just speak plainly.
|
Fair enough James I thought you were going somewhere else with it.
Aikiweb is probably thee worst message forum I've been on for seeing people making jabs at each other while trying to look open minded and friendly. I agree people should just peak plainly and get their point across.
With regard to "porn" and "violence", Charles, it's become almost cliche to quote Dave Grossmass's 'On Killing'. Be that as it may pick it up and give it a read.
Porn may have elements of mutual pleasure but it's just as much about one individual (or several) dominating another individual (or several). The "money shot" is simular to fighting with someone and defeating/killing them.
|
If you're hungry, keep moving.
If you're tired, keep moving.
If you value you're life, keep moving.
You don't own what you can't defend
|
|
|
01-31-2008, 03:21 AM
|
#14
|
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 567
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
Quote:
James Davis, Jr. wrote:
The corrupt senators who don't give a damn about the people and the peddlers of porn and violence are making sure we fall apart from the inside, just like Rome did. When that finally happens, the world will never have to worry about U.S. military occupation - or foreign aid - ever again.
|
That's one way of looking at it. Or we can stop the military occupations and foreign aid, so we don't fall apart from the inside.
I certainly believe that morality is important, but before I point the finger at action and pornographic movies, I would stop the debasement of our money and the perversion of our laws.
Quote:
James Davis, Jr. wrote:
We certainly have our faults, but if we chose to be isolationists again the world would get real crappy real fast.
|
Why? Most people use "isolationist" as a dirty word for "non-interventionist." There's a big difference.
Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
Porn may have elements of mutual pleasure but it's just as much about one individual (or several) dominating another individual (or several). The "money shot" is simular to fighting with someone and defeating/killing them.
|
Apparently, some people spend way to much time analyzing porn.
|
-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
|
|
|
01-31-2008, 06:54 AM
|
#15
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
Is America the New Rome?
Quote:
David Chalk wrote:
British chieftain Calgacus addressing assembled warriors about Rome's insatiable appetite for conquest and plunder. The chieftain's sentiment can be contrasted to "peace given to the world" which was frequently inscribed on Roman medals. The last part solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant (they make a desert, and call it peace)
The more things change
|
Sounds like sour grapes.
Rule, Britannia! rule the waves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire
" The British Empire was the largest empire in history and for a time was the foremost global power. It was a product of the European age of discovery, which began with the maritime explorations of the 15th century, that sparked the era of the European colonial empires.
By 1921, the British Empire held sway over a population of about 458 million people, approximately one-quarter of the world's population.[1] It covered about 36.6 million kmē (14.2 million square miles),[2] about a quarter of Earth's total land area. As a result, its legacy is widespread, in legal and governmental systems, economic practice, militarily, educational systems, sports, and in the global spread of the English language. At the peak of its power, it was often said that "the sun never sets on the British Empire" because its span across the globe ensured that the sun was always shining on at least one of its numerous colonies or subject nations.[3]
During the five decades following World War II, most of the territories of the Empire became independent. Many went on to join the Commonwealth of Nations, a free association of independent states."
David
|
Go ahead, tread on me.
|
|
|
01-31-2008, 07:35 AM
|
#16
|
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 82
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
David
Not really Sour Grapes because as you've pointed out - we were honest about conquest, we were sucessful, in comparative terms we stole far more than the USA has managed (perhaps because we thought long term), we left behind a legacy of relatively civilised countries (including your northern neigbour)
I think you'll find that it is when we left the problems started (Uganda, Sri Lanka, India & Pakistan, USA etc)
it's a bit different today - as it's really hard to think of countries that have truly benefitted from purely American intervention and equally difficult to avoid finding countries that have not suffered from it, most notably in Latin America & of course Iraq.
But the question is whether the United States is creating chaos and installing puppets and calling it 'Democracy or peace'. - I wasn't suggesting that Monty Python would be capable of doing a "What have the Americans done for us' sketch
|
|
|
|
01-31-2008, 10:58 AM
|
#17
|
Dojo: Ft. Myers School of Aikido
Location: Ft. Myers, FL.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 716
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
Quote:
Michael Varin wrote:
That's one way of looking at it. Or we can stop the military occupations and foreign aid, so we don't fall apart from the inside.
|
Capital idea.
Quote:
Michael Varin wrote:
I certainly believe that morality is important, but before I point the finger at action and pornographic movies, I would stop the debasement of our money and the perversion of our laws.
|
That's cool.
I don't have a problem with action movies. The violence is what it getting worse. I don't mind so much watching a movie with a fistfight or a military skirmish. In these cases, violence and even gore help to tell the story. It's when violence and gore are the plot that movies start to stink.
Quote:
Michael Varin wrote:
Why? Most people use "isolationist" as a dirty word for "non-interventionist." There's a big difference.
|
While being non-interventionist holds some appeal, one problem is that the world is full of never-do-wells lying in wait for the U.S. to back off so that the Kuwaits of the world can be invaded. Do we sit back and watch it all fall apart? Do we do nothing, or something? Whatever we do, there'll be people that hate us, and there'll be people risking their lives to sneak across our borders into the U.S.
Quote:
Michael Varin wrote:
Apparently, some people spend way to much time analyzing porn.
|
Porn, like violence, becomes more hard core as the people get more desensitized. Children Of the Corn isn't scary enough anymore, so the blood flows more freely now. 1940's era pinups have given way to what we have today. One sad thing about both of these situations is that we can't even really opt out. If you choose not to partake in pornography, you'll get pop-up ads horning their way onto your monitor. Even now, they're hard at work trying to find a way around whatever parental controls we utilize so that they can show their unwanted product to our children. Even if I choose not to watch the Saw or Hostel movies, they'll put on an advertisement for them during a 7 o'clock trivia game show in an attempt to get the images into my daughter's head.
|
"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
|
|
|
01-31-2008, 12:13 PM
|
#18
|
Location: Flordia
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 300
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
Quote:
Michael Varin wrote:
Apparently, some people spend way to much time analyzing porn.
|
Quote:
Lt. Col. Dave Grossman is an internationally recognized scholar, author, soldier, and speaker who is one of the world's foremost experts in the field of human aggression and the roots of violence and violent crime.
Col. Grossman is a West Point psychology professor, Professor of Military Science, and an Army Ranger who has combined his experiences to become the founder of a new field of scientific endeavor, which has been termed “killology.” In this new field Col. Grossman has made revolutionary new contributions to our understanding of killing in war, the psychological costs of war, the root causes of the current "virus" of violent crime that is raging around the world, and the process of healing the victims of violence, in war and peace.
He is the author of On Killing, which was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize; has been translated into Japanese, Korean, and German; is on the US Marine Corps’ recommended reading list; and is required reading at the FBI academy and numerous other academies and colleges.
|
http://www.killology.com/bio.htm
Sounds like it wasn't time wasted though.
Last edited by Guilty Spark : 01-31-2008 at 12:16 PM.
|
If you're hungry, keep moving.
If you're tired, keep moving.
If you value you're life, keep moving.
You don't own what you can't defend
|
|
|
02-06-2008, 02:02 PM
|
#19
|
Dojo: McAllen
Location: McAllen
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 23
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
Tell us all that's wrong with America. Tell us how we don't get anything right. Then watch your parliment on TV and explain why your way is so much better.
|
|
|
|
02-07-2008, 03:46 AM
|
#20
|
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 82
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
Our Parliament is NO BETTER - although we are not claiming to be the saviours of the world, the world's policeman, etc
|
|
|
|
02-07-2008, 02:24 PM
|
#21
|
Dojo: McAllen
Location: McAllen
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 23
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
So damn us for doing something and we'll damn you for doing nothing.
|
|
|
|
02-07-2008, 05:05 PM
|
#22
|
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
Offline
|
Re: Is America the new Rome?
Quote:
David Chalk wrote:
I wasn't suggesting that Monty Python would be capable of doing a "What have the Americans done for us' sketch
|
I couldn't resist this one
Jazz!! a uniquely American artform that has enriched global human culture no end.
Regards
Mark
|
Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:50 PM.
|
vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
|
|