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Old 07-30-2003, 12:30 PM   #51
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Michael,

My take is perhaps try another dojo...but in reality you are correct, there is a *lot* of baggage. I just like the mat time enough to put up with it. And to try to minimize my own baggage.

I don't know what I would do if a training partner came on like this in public...but I know I wouldn't appreciate it.

Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 07-30-2003, 12:44 PM   #52
Michael Neal
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Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Michael,

My take is perhaps try another dojo...

Ron
As I said earlier I really like my dojo and my instructor and it should not be reflected on poorly because of this, I have the highest regard for the strong martial ability, positive atmosphere, great people, and superior instruction there. My problem right now is with Aikido in general and its baggage. I am really not sure that it is the right thing for me and this is something that I will need to reflect on.

This other stuff certainly does not help but it is not the basis for my decision.

Quote:
Michael,

If you want to try BJJ this guy is close to you, he is excellent from what I hear... (Well his teacher is) He should be able to tie you into knots with little effort

http://www.fusionbjj.com/
Thanks, I have actually already contacted them about some free trial lessons.
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Old 07-30-2003, 01:20 PM   #53
paw
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Robert,

Judging from the responses that have followed from last you posted ... well if it's all the same to you let's consider the matter closed and dropped.

Michael,

Not sure what to say. Contact me on the other forum if you need to talk.

All,

Sorry for taking the thread off topic. I'm back to lurking on this issue unless someone has specific questions of me.

Regards,

Paul
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Old 07-30-2003, 06:37 PM   #54
Phillip Armel
Dojo: Almost Heaven
Location: St Marys West Virginia
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Whoa, lol. I think everyone should calm down about this golfing thing here lol. I mean aikido is about peace and harmony and golfing isn't really hardcore by any means..so there might be a connection.

I think the spiritual aspect is just as important as the martial aspect. I don't think aikido was made for everyone in the world to take. It seems you generally have to want self defense, and with that in mind I would say most aikidoka are a different breed of people, all people want self defense the only problem is that most other arts take this by brutally pulverising the opponet. I don't think I'd learn to much from a super buff over macho crazy man that is always questioning everything and making negative comments=/
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Old 07-31-2003, 12:53 AM   #55
kironin
 
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Ki Symbol

Quote:
Erik Haselhofer (Erik) wrote:
Well, to be honest, I was inclined to go after Ted on that one, but he's a nice guy, and the title speaks for itself. Based on the title of the chapter it's pretty clear that Koichi Tohei doesn't know (at least when he, or his writer, wrote that book) a damn thing about golf.
Actually, I think it's more an indication of what a shoddy translation was done on that book in the late 70's. It does not appear that a native English speaker edited the book at all post-translation.

I don't know how much he knows about baseball, but he apparently was a big help to at least one famous Japanese baseball player.

All this was pre-internet though.

As far as Jaimie goes, the website is a bit hard to swallow but it is hardly the downfall of aikido. I wish her the best on pursuing a living doing her two passions.

As someone who had a golf fanatic for a Dad and started golf when I was 7, I do think that Ki principles/Aikido movements can be very beneficial for golfers. Unfortunately for Jamie there already is a very good training system in golf that has a lot in common with Aikido and use of the Japanese sword and the language is a lot clearer and more direct.

http://www.gravitygolf.net/system.htm

Craig
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Old 07-31-2003, 12:54 AM   #56
mike lee
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
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no escape

Quote:
I think I will take a break from Aikido for some time and if I find that I miss it I will return.
Where ever you go, there you are. Your cynical self will always follow.
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Old 07-31-2003, 01:23 AM   #57
kironin
 
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Quote:
Lynn Seiser (SeiserL) wrote:
Saw the demo at the Expo, some nice stuff. I might not combine the two, but hey that's me. Worry less about what others are doing and more about how you personally represent the art. I think the downfall of Aikido is too much discusssion about what other people should or shouldn't do. Now everyone bow in and get back on the mats.
I also saw Jaimie's demo at the Aiki Expo last year. It was okay as far as that sort of thing goes. I haven't seen the edited videos of the demos, was it on there ? It was one small bit of several hours of demos over two nights full of many excellent displays of aikido. I think it's a little much to get upset over it.

You can bash her marketing methods, but I found a good partner when I practiced with her.

Craig
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Old 07-31-2003, 02:16 AM   #58
Erik
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Quote:
Craig Hocker (kironin) wrote:
Actually, I think it's more an indication of what a shoddy translation was done on that book in the late 70's. It does not appear that a native English speaker edited the book at all post-translation.
Or even a Japanese golfer. Fair enough though, but you know what, I guess I was annoyed by the 10th dan over the bow comment.

Quote:
I don't know how much he knows about baseball, but he apparently was a big help to at least one famous Japanese baseball player.
Like all things of this sort it can get blown up a bit but clearly the two of them did know each other, he did study aikido and Tohei did teach him his ki principles.

I'm glad you mentioned this. It was pre-internet days when I read Heckler's book so I'd forgotten about the chapter on Sadaharu Oh. I did some searching and his book is highly recommended, assuming I can hunt down a copy.

Last edited by Erik : 07-31-2003 at 02:24 AM.
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Old 07-31-2003, 04:24 AM   #59
tedehara
 
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Quote:
Erik Haselhofer (Erik) wrote:
Or even a Japanese golfer. Fair enough though, but you know what, I guess I was annoyed by the 10th dan over the bow comment.
If you were annoyed by that comment, I sincerely apologize for it. Ki development is part of the aikido tradition. However acceptance or rejection of this concept and to what degree, is an individual choice.

If someone is a 10th Dan, it doesn't mean they're right, just as if someone were a non-ranked beginner, it doesn't mean they're wrong.

I believe if you keep your sense of humor you will go far in aikido. If you lose your sense of humor, you will have to go even farther.

.

.

.

And yes, I do crack myself up - Just throw me in a bin with the other nuts...


It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
About Ki
About You
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Old 07-31-2003, 09:53 AM   #60
kironin
 
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Cool

Quote:
Erik Haselhofer (Erik) wrote:
I'm glad you mentioned this. It was pre-internet days when I read Heckler's book so I'd forgotten about the chapter on Sadaharu Oh. I did some searching and his book is highly recommended, assuming I can hunt down a copy.
Is that Heckler's Special Forces book ? I didn't remember that he mentioned it in there. I do remember that there there is a picture of Sadaharu Oh and Tohei Sensei together in one of the older books where he is apparently thanking Tohei for his help.

I found my copy of the "Book of Ki" and reread the golf chapter. He does state clearly at the beginning that he has never played golf and just that he has been able to help several golfers by applying ki principles to their swing. Reading it again, I am amused that it seems to touch on another aikiweb thread on do and jutsu ("Unification of mind and body is fundamental. If the foundations are poorly laid, technique will be of no use.")

Quoting from the chapter,
Quote:
Several years ago the late Kinya Fujita took me to Kasumigaura Country Club. Mr. Fujita helped establish the club and had also been a member of the board of directors for Aikikai Headquarters. He knew that I had been teaching several professional baseball players in Japan, including Mr. Oh and Mr. Nagashima of the Yomiuri Giants, Taiyo's Mr. Matsubara and Mr. Doi of the Taiheiyo team. So he asked me to give instructions to some professional golfers.

I knew nothing about golf. I walked with Mr. Fujita for nine holes, listening to his explanations. All of the players had long drives. After reaching the green, however, they had to hit the ball twice to get in the hole. "Is it against the rule", I asked. "to hit it into the hole with one stroke?" "No," he answered, "but it is very difficult." So I placed a ball at a spot from which one of them had failed to make the hole. Then I asked Mr. Masao Murokoshi, President of Educational Cinema, to hit the ball into the hole. The distance was six or seven meters. "No", he said, "it is impossible." He was an amateur and therefore was shy in front of the professionals. "Do as I tell you," I said. I then explained to him how to hit. He sank the ball with a single putt. Everyone applauded. Mr. Murokoshi was stunned. He said it was the first time he had made such a long putt in his long career of golf. Then I gave a lecture on how to hit with wood and how to putt. I now will repeat that lecture for you.
What follows is a few pages that to me as a golfer make a lot of sense. I do remember being amused when I first read the chapter title. Since there were several golfers including my sensei in my old dojo, it was an amusement shared. But given the sensible information in the chapter, it just stands out like a translation or editing mistake.

What Peter G. said makes a lot of sense.

Craig
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Old 07-31-2003, 10:12 AM   #61
kironin
 
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Red face

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Michael,

My take is perhaps try another dojo...but in reality you are correct, there is a *lot* of baggage. I just like the mat time enough to put up with it. And to try to minimize my own baggage.
What I am left wondering after reading some of this thread is what art doesn't have baggage ?

and with thousands of students in an art, what is one person's baggage is probably someone else's gold.

How many people as they practice over time haven't had moments of disillusionment, disappointment, or frustration that haven't made them at least think of walking away ?

Commitment is a complex thing.

Craig
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Old 07-31-2003, 10:19 AM   #62
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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You are absolutely correct Craig. And commitment (in the end) is about fighting or relaxing through those tough times, which ever one is called for.

RT

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 07-31-2003, 10:35 AM   #63
Qatana
 
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Heckler book:

Aikido and the New Warrior

1985, North Atlantic Books, Berkeley CA

'A Zen Way of Baseball" by Sadaharu Oh with Davif Falkner

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 07-31-2003, 11:12 AM   #64
Cyrijl
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Quote:
Where ever you go, there you are. Your cynical self will always follow.
Yeah, this is a great quote. Instead of saying, "Yes, maybe some people in the aikido world are lame, or stupid," you iimply that there is something wrong with Micheal, who has always been a strong advocate of aikido and its effectiveness. I don't mind this lady connecting gold and aikido. But don't think that is doesn't make alot of non-aikido practioners laugh at all aikido people. That was Michael's point.

melior est canis vivus leone mortuo
Bog svsami!!!
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Old 07-31-2003, 11:50 AM   #65
Erik
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Quote:
Ted Ehara (tedehara) wrote:
And yes, I do crack myself up - Just throw me in a bin with the other nuts...
I'll meet you there.
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Old 07-31-2003, 12:49 PM   #66
Bronson
 
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Quote:
Would you be comfortable with me teaching a defensive handgun tactics course shooting at life like targets dressed in a hakama, a holster, shooting glasses, earmuffs and an NRA hat, advocating my Aiki-Lethal-Defensive-Handgun-Course?
Sign me up!

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 07-31-2003, 01:05 PM   #67
kironin
 
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Talking

Quote:
Erik Haselhofer (Erik) wrote:
I'll meet you there.
Can I join you guys ?

Craig
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Old 07-31-2003, 01:08 PM   #68
Jesse Lee
Dojo: Tenzan Aikido, formerly named Seattle Aikikai
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Can we shoot at life-like targets wearing NRA gear? Better yet, use paintball markers to hunt down real NRA members? I am so there....

, can't find m s
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Old 07-31-2003, 01:53 PM   #69
TheFallGuy
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Quote:
And yes, I do crack myself up - Just throw me in a bin with the other nuts...
I think I'm already there, I mean I've been bitten a couple times by several of our aikidoka!!!

I don't think that the Golf/ki/Aikido aspect is going to be the end of Aikido. It's a unique application (even if I think it's silly), and someone has marketed it and is trying to make money off of it. There may actually be some positive spins on this. Some golfer may see this and say 'hmmmm what is aikido?' Which may or may not lead to further exploration and perhaps introduction into the art.
Quote:
Better yet, use paintball markers to hunt down real NRA members? I am so there....
But aren't they armed with real guns and real bullets? I know I am! (As my shirt says -- Got Ammo?) Heh heh

(Don't read this if you are ultra-sensitive and have no humor )

On another note, reading these forums is better than watching 'Days of our Lives'. The fights and arguments between different people (Michael, Robert, the foreign guy complaining about being beaten up by his Sensei....) Now all we need is for the lusty amorous aikidoka to appear and then we'd all be entertained!!!

Laugh -- it will make you smile!
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Old 07-31-2003, 02:28 PM   #70
Jesse Lee
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Quote:
Now all we need is for the lusty amorous aikidoka to appear and then we'd all be entertained!!!
Looks like you might be all set....

, can't find m s
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Old 07-31-2003, 03:43 PM   #71
Jesse Lee
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No, you would have to run around naked and try not to get shot. Costs $10K to play, I hear, but for motivational purposes you would keep $1500 if you get shot, $2500 if you don't.

Last edited by Jesse Lee : 07-31-2003 at 03:47 PM.

, can't find m s
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Old 07-31-2003, 03:47 PM   #72
Jesse Lee
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Then again, statistics show that most NRA members have huge beer bellies, hairy backs, and few teeth, so maybe this needs to be rethought through....


, can't find m s
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Old 07-31-2003, 07:54 PM   #73
YEME
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...there should be an underwater element...if you don't get shot first, your hakama will take you out as you cross the river...

The hairy backs and few teeth...ALL members?

does this mean women included?

Hands up if "ewwww".

Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome.
--Isaac Asimov

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Old 07-31-2003, 08:07 PM   #74
opherdonchin
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What did this thread used to be about?

Yours in Aiki
Opher
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Old 07-31-2003, 09:39 PM   #75
jk
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Running around naked, I think. I'm all for that...
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