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Old 05-28-2003, 10:43 AM   #1
Dojo: West Michigan Aikido
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 112
Aikido vs Aikido

On this board and a few others people have argued about Aikido effectiveness on the street because of the lack of strikes and ground works. Though it seem quite clear that the founder believed if a conflict was allowed to get that far you have already lost the battle. Aikido is an art of energy. If the attacker provides no energy it is very difficult to execute an Aikido technique.
At the end of class tonight the sensei did what I would call Aikido vs. Aikido. Grabbing the gi around the chest area or along the edge with tight grip. However he kept has arm relaxed. It was nearly impossible to break his grip. At least no with a massive amount of muscle. The trick seem to be is that with his arm relaxed he provided no energy. If his arm became stiff at anytime it was easy to step back and whip out a kotogashi, but as long as his arm was relax nothing seem to work.

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Old 05-28-2003, 12:00 PM   #2
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 715
You have to create your own tension.

Ignore his hand, grab your own kit just above where he is gripping and with your other hand grab his sleeve or wrist.

A small flick of the hips, with a 'seperating' movement of the hands, will then be more than enough to dislodge a good relaxed grip. Don't lose your balance.

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Old 05-28-2003, 12:08 PM   #3
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 135
Punch him in the nose hard. He'll let go on his own....

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Old 05-28-2003, 03:42 PM   #4
Location: South West UK
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 216
Strength through relaxation is the Aikido way. I have had a simpliar experience with my Sensei, when she attacked me 4th form (Chest grab) when I went physical against her, nothing seemed to work.

You have to meet their relaxation with your own and keep superior balance, thats what I have found works so far. :S

"Minimum Effort, Maximum Effciency."
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Old 05-28-2003, 04:24 PM   #5
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 890
Or, you could punch her in the nose ...
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Old 05-28-2003, 05:22 PM   #6
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 586
Well, perhaps you could try punching her in the nose but it doesn't seem like a wise choice to me. I'm not sure that the path of escalating violence is very wise when dealing with your Aikido sensei. Who knows, she might be quite good martially.

Yours in Aiki
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Old 05-28-2003, 10:09 PM   #7
Location: Indonesia
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 245
Mongo, no! Never kill a customer. Goes for you too, Aleksey. Aikido is LOVE, dammit.

Moving right along: Palm heel to the nose, or a good solid shin kick between the legs. Or grab them by their dogi for a nice round of judo randori. Or pin their grabbing hand to your chest, turn and do armpit nikkyo. Any of the above may work, but my favorite is if you try to kiss them...
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Old 05-28-2003, 10:11 PM   #8
PhilJ's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Bukou
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 240

It's difficult to do aikido on someone in an aiki fashion if there is no energy; that is, no attack and no need for self-defense.

I think being a good uke implies helping your partner learn and practice the technique by giving him/her energy to deal with a technique (among other things).

However, in this situation, you can ellicit energy yourself (shodo o seisu, control the first move). Use your one point to extend through your arm and 'reach' for a part on uke's body. The head and groin work well. If uke doesn't stop you then they have a surprise coming, but if they do resist, you now have energy to work with.

There's tons of ways to do this, though, and since you may be [rightfully] reluctant to correct your instructor, you can try tricks like this to ellicit the energy you want... but it takes practice.

Above all else, don't get into a strength game. My sensei always said, "Don't play uke's game". Stay relaxed and be patient with yourself -- smile to yourself and keep trying.


Last edited by PhilJ : 05-28-2003 at 10:13 PM.

Phillip Johnson
Enso Aikido Dojo, Burnsville, MN
An Aikido Bukou Dojo
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