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06-06-2016, 12:56 PM
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#26
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,318
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Re: "Sly's combative concepts"
Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote:
Please explain how would you technically train against a sucker punch?! Anybody can get sucker punched if they are careless or simply unaware of what is happening around them?
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What kind of martial artist views "careless" and "unaware" as acceptable states?
And if you are careless and unaware, why on earth would you expect any technique to be available in time?
Katherine
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06-07-2016, 03:23 AM
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#27
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Dojo: Shoheijuku Aikido, Fukuoka
Location: Fukuoka
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 157
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Re: "Sly's combative concepts"
Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote:
Please define a swing because from what i understand yokomenuchi is basically a defense against a swing, be it empty handed or with a weapon.
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Yokomenuchi starts as a sword cut from above the head, but goes in a curve to cut at an angle, instead of straight. Youtube can educate you as to the types of punches seen in fights, but they don't look like yokomenuchi.
This is why I'm interested in this kind of training, coming from someone who has been attacked enough times as a bouncer or police officer, for example, and hence why I'm interested in Sly's videos.
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Naturally having something useful to say is like natural responses during training: It takes much practice.
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06-07-2016, 07:10 AM
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#28
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Dojo: Aikido Klub Tisa - Novi Sad
Location: Novi Sad
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 398
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Re: "Sly's combative concepts"
Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote:
What kind of martial artist views "careless" and "unaware" as acceptable states?
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Most people, who train in martial arts, are not the primary example of a warrior with all of the psychological traits. The fact is you could be walking down the street thinking about your job, family, training and somebody comes up to you and says "Excuse me. My phone battery died. Can you tell me what time it is?" you say "Sure, it's..." BAM. You wouldn't even know what hit you. Not to mention other situations, after drinks, exhaustion after a hard training, day at the job etc. Even in the old days warriors where killed in ambushes.
Quote:
And if you are careless and unaware, why on earth would you expect any technique to be available in time?
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Certain techniques like Ikkyo are always available. What i was asking is how would he technically train against a sucker punch not what specific technique he could use. The fact is anybody can be punched like that, the only thing you can do is work on your movement, body positioning, so you don't stand right in front of somebody on the street, Maai or distance between you and the person you are talking to and most importantly to get your hands up as fast as possible. Again these aren't some technical specifics just some pointers which again don't have to actually make a difference but can come in handy.
Last edited by MrIggy : 06-07-2016 at 07:20 AM.
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06-07-2016, 10:27 AM
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#29
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,248
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Re: "Sly's combative concepts"
Quote:
Amos Barnett wrote:
This is why I'm interested in this kind of training, coming from someone who has been attacked enough times as a bouncer or police officer, for example, and hence why I'm interested in Sly's videos.
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If you want to learn how to deal with common attacks you need to train with people who throw them at you in an alive environment. Sly's videos are going to be as useful for that purpose.as watching The Matrix for learning Kung Fu.
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06-07-2016, 10:29 AM
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#30
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Dojo: Aikido Klub Tisa - Novi Sad
Location: Novi Sad
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 398
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Re: "Sly's combative concepts"
Quote:
Amos Barnett wrote:
Yokomenuchi starts as a sword cut from above the head, but goes in a curve to cut at an angle, instead of straight.
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That's a good explanation of the correct technical execution of the Yokomenuchi attack, but what i was referring to was the entry. If we are talking about a swing and not a hook punch the entry, sankaku tai, that serves to stop a Yokomenuchi can stop a swing punch because with a swing punch the attacker has to open his guard more in order to gather more momentum in the punch which means opening in the shoulder and elbow. It's a double edged sword, the more you open the more force you will have but also the greater chance is that your opponent can counter you. Mike Tyson used that punch many times in his matches, everybody would call them hooks because they didn't know any better, he would also get countered many times but that didn't do him any harm and his opponents where usually knocked out because of the massive force that he would gather and off course because he was a strong ferocious puncher.
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06-08-2016, 12:34 PM
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#31
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,318
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Re: "Sly's combative concepts"
Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote:
Most people, who train in martial arts, are not the primary example of a warrior with all of the psychological traits. The fact is you could be walking down the street thinking about your job, family, training and somebody comes up to you and says "Excuse me. My phone battery died. Can you tell me what time it is?" you say "Sure, it's..." BAM. You wouldn't even know what hit you. Not to mention other situations, after drinks, exhaustion after a hard training, day at the job etc. Even in the old days warriors where killed in ambushes.
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Sure, but isn't the whole idea to avoid such lapses of attention?
Quote:
Certain techniques like Ikkyo are always available. What i was asking is how would he technically train against a sucker punch not what specific technique he could use. The fact is anybody can be punched like that, the only thing you can do is work on your movement, body positioning, so you don't stand right in front of somebody on the street, Maai or distance between you and the person you are talking to and most importantly to get your hands up as fast as possible.
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If you're managing distance and body positioning, then by definition you're not "careless" and "unaware."
And ikkyo absolutely is not going to be available to defend against a true sucker punch that you don't see coming. You throw your hands up in a "flinch" reaction and the attack drives right through them.
Katherine
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06-08-2016, 07:38 PM
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#32
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Dojo: Aikido Klub Tisa - Novi Sad
Location: Novi Sad
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 398
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Re: "Sly's combative concepts"
Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote:
Sure, but isn't the whole idea to avoid such lapses of attention?
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Yes, but that doesn't mean that you develop biological resistance to such situations. Like i said, even in the old days warriors where killed in ambushes.
Quote:
If you're managing distance and body positioning, then by definition you're not "careless" and "unaware."
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Neither did i say that. What i said was that those are some pointers which again don't have to actually make a difference but can come in handy.
Quote:
And ikkyo absolutely is not going to be available to defend against a true sucker punch that you don't see coming. You throw your hands up in a "flinch" reaction and the attack drives right through them.
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Like i said, some techniques, like Ikkyo, are always available. The fact is that you can't defend yourself against a sucker punch but you can defend yourself in the aftermath if the attacker doesn't simply wan't to hit and run (or hit, steal and run). Also raising your hands can indeed prevent your attacker from landing a second and third punch and help you create distance from him/her by landing a couple of punches of you own or by simply pushing them away. I know this from experience.
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06-09-2016, 10:55 AM
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#33
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Dojo: Aikido South
Location: Johnson City, TN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,209
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Re: "Sly's combative concepts"
I think Katherine is trying to point out that you are describing a "whotif" scenario that probably has no answer because of the way the scenario is constructed. Yes, people are vulnerable to well-planned surprise attacks. Hope for luck and recover as quickly as possible.
For me, I advocate individuals who intend to get into physical confrontation need to participant in sparring. Mostly, you need to get used to the discomfort and affect fighting has on your body - hormones, pain, injury, fatigue, vision, hearing, balance. Even the best trained sport fighters can walk into a punch that ends the fight. To consider a scenario where you first take an undefended blow (kick or punch) and then react from that is a fight scenario for which most of us are not trained.
Also, I am not sure I would say that ikkyo is always available. Nor does hands up = ikkyo. Getting up hands to defend yourself is critical, but I am not sure I am going to call that a technique.
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Jon Reading
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06-09-2016, 01:12 PM
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#34
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Dojo: Aikido Klub Tisa - Novi Sad
Location: Novi Sad
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 398
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Re: "Sly's combative concepts"
Quote:
Jon Reading wrote:
Also, I am not sure I would say that ikkyo is always available. Nor does hands up = ikkyo. Getting up hands to defend yourself is critical, but I am not sure I am going to call that a technique.
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Nor did i say hands up = Ikkyo, like i wrote earlier, "raising your hands can indeed prevent your attacker from landing a second and third punch and help you create distance from him/her by landing a couple of punches of you own or by simply pushing them away". I will be more precise, i know this from my experience.
As far as techniques go, Ikkyo is the fundamental technique and from my experience it's always available but it depends on the way it's trained and used.
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06-19-2016, 10:06 PM
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#35
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Dojo: Shoheijuku Aikido, Fukuoka
Location: Fukuoka
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 157
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Re: "Sly's combative concepts"
Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote:
If you want to learn how to deal with common attacks you need to train with people who throw them at you in an alive environment. Sly's videos are going to be as useful for that purpose.as watching The Matrix for learning Kung Fu.
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Yup, that's why I said in my post "I'm interested in this kind of training." In Sly's case, he has been on the receiving end of violence, which makes what he has to say and what he considers to be of value to be something of interest. The same goes for being interested in what policemen who practice Aikido say, or other people in security fields who do.
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Naturally having something useful to say is like natural responses during training: It takes much practice.
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07-17-2016, 09:12 AM
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#36
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Dojo: North Sydney Aikido
Location: Sydney
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 21
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Re: "Sly's combative concepts"
Although Sly's is rather unorthodox and can vulgar. He's Aikido is actually good. I would say it would be more effective than some of the Aikido I've seen out there. Remember this Tenshin Aikido has a strong 'combat' concepts.
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