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09-27-2009, 06:24 AM
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#51
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Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,202
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Re: President Obama's policy and ideology
I missed the part where the Open Discussions forum was declared the David Skaggs Right-Wing Axe-Grinding Forum. While it's fine to have an open forum (because off-topic crap is going to get posted, and by having an open forum you at least have somewhere to point to when people post their off-topic crap), I think it's taking it a little far when it's turned into a soapbox for posting diatribes and politically-minded sniping. You can argue that that's "open" as all get-out, but it sure as hell is not a "discussion".
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09-27-2009, 07:01 AM
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#52
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Dojo: Aikikai Gent, Brugse Aikido Vereniging
Location: Bruges
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 139
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Re: President Obama's policy and ideology
Ah American politics.. there's really nothing more strange (and funny) to Europeans.
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09-27-2009, 05:38 PM
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#53
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Location: Greensboro North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 370
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Re: Obama Cult of Personality
Quote:
David Skaggs wrote:
This is reminiscent of the "cults of personality" that Stalin and Chairman Mao established in their countries.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aqMTD5UFmU
This was filmed around June 19, 2009 at the B. Bernice Young Elementary School in Burlington, NJ.
Lyrics
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Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama
He said that all must lend a hand [?]
To make this country strong again
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama
He said we must be clear today
Equal work means equal pay
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama
He said that we must take a stand
To make sure everyone gets a chance
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama
He said Red, Yellow, Black or White
All are equal in his sight
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama
Yes
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama
segue to
Hello, Mr. President we honor you today!
For all your great accomplishments, we all [do? doth??] say "hooray!"
Hooray Mr. President! You're number one!
The first Black American to lead this great na-TION!
Hooray, Mr. President something-something-some
A-something-something-something-some economy is number one again!
Hooray Mr. President, we're really proud of you!
And the same for all Americans [in?] the great Red White and Blue!
So something Mr. President we all just something-some,
So here's a hearty hip-hooray a-something-something-some!
Hip, hip hooray! (3x)
The Liberals would have went ballistic if this had happened with George Bush.
David
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If you don't like America of today. THEN SIMPLY LEAVE. Just leave, it's that simple.
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09-27-2009, 06:16 PM
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#54
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Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
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Re: President Obama's policy and ideology
Quote:
Maarten De Queecker wrote:
Ah American politics.. there's really nothing more strange (and funny) to Europeans.
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Ah, but the Belgium military and its many successes is funny to us, as long as we're making insults.
Actually, the last 3 posts seem to have deviated into insulting issues. It would have been nice if the topic could be debated.... obviously, the descent to off-topic innuendo seems to be the trendy rebuttal when facts are short.
Mike Sigman
Last edited by Mike Sigman : 09-27-2009 at 06:18 PM.
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09-27-2009, 11:46 PM
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#55
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 51
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Re: Obama Cult of Personality
As long as people are being jerkish:
Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote:
I missed the part where the Open Discussions forum was declared the David Skaggs Right-Wing Axe-Grinding Forum. While it's fine to have an open forum (because off-topic crap is going to get posted, and by having an open forum you at least have somewhere to point to when people post their off-topic crap), I think it's taking it a little far when it's turned into a soapbox for posting diatribes and politically-minded sniping. You can argue that that's "open" as all get-out, but it sure as hell is not a "discussion".
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I missed the part where you were required to read all the posts in the Open Discussion forum.
Just sayin.
Quote:
Salim Shaw wrote:
If you don't like America of today. THEN SIMPLY LEAVE. Just leave, it's that simple.
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While I support the RIGHT of people to 'vote with their feet', the idea that "It's America, Love IT or Leave IT" is as stupid and ridiculous today as it was when the conservatives started saying it. If you truly think that such is an attitude is 'American' in any sense, you ought to go back to Civics class. This coming from a guy who left it a long time ago.
This is old, but truly funny and on point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3_95F5e-Ac&feature=fvw
Peace
betti$
Last edited by hapkidoike : 09-27-2009 at 11:48 PM.
Reason: forgot something
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Ich glaube dass mein Schwein pfeifen.
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09-28-2009, 01:51 AM
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#56
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Dojo: Aikikai Gent, Brugse Aikido Vereniging
Location: Bruges
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 139
Offline
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Re: President Obama's policy and ideology
Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Ah, but the Belgium military and its many successes is funny to us, as long as we're making insults.
Actually, the last 3 posts seem to have deviated into insulting issues. It would have been nice if the topic could be debated.... obviously, the descent to off-topic innuendo seems to be the trendy rebuttal when facts are short.
Mike Sigman
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Didn't exactly mean as an insult, but ok. By the way, the Belgian military is a joke even to Belgian folks. I read a few months ago that more than 50% of the Belgian army is overweight
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09-28-2009, 03:21 AM
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#57
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Location: Rotterdam
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 459
Offline
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Re: President Obama's policy and ideology
Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Quote:
Maarten De Queecker wrote:
Ah American politics.. there's really nothing more strange (and funny) to Europeans.
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Ah, but the Belgium military and its many successes is funny to us, as long as we're making insults.
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Fact is that most Europeans that think they understand American politics actually don't. It's almost like it's on a different continent or something.
To illustrate: most people in Holland were in favor of Obama, but had little knowledge of his ideas about gay marriage, euthanasia, social security, etc. They just kind of assumed he subscribed to the ideas of the average Dutchman...
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09-28-2009, 05:01 AM
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#58
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Location: Rotterdam
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 459
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Re: President Obama's policy and ideology
Quote:
Joep Schuurkes wrote:
Fact is that most Europeans that think they understand American politics actually don't.
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Maarten: I just realized the above may seem to imply that you do not understand American politics. That is not my intention.
Rather, I agree with you that American politics is strange to us Europeans, because it looks a lot like European politics, but in fact it isn't:
- No European country is as powerful as the USA. The EU would qualify, if it weren't that divided.
- In the USA nobody wants to be called a 'socialist'. Most European countries have a 'Socialist Party' and those are not extremist.
- Most (if not all) European countries have embraced the concept of a social welfare state. In the USA they have the American Dream.
- etc.
I just know enough of American politics to know I really don't have a clue.
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09-28-2009, 05:48 AM
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#59
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Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
Offline
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Re: President Obama's policy and ideology
Quote:
Maarten De Queecker wrote:
Didn't exactly mean as an insult, but ok. By the way, the Belgian military is a joke even to Belgian folks. I read a few months ago that more than 50% of the Belgian army is overweight
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So little to do, so much time, so many lovely Waffles to eat
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Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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09-28-2009, 06:06 AM
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#60
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Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
Offline
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Re: President Obama's policy and ideology
Quote:
Joep Schuurkes wrote:
Maarten: I just realized the above may seem to imply that you do not understand American politics. That is not my intention.
Rather, I agree with you that American politics is strange to us Europeans, because it looks a lot like European politics, but in fact it isn't:
- No European country is as powerful as the USA. The EU would qualify, if it weren't that divided.
- In the USA nobody wants to be called a 'socialist'. Most European countries have a 'Socialist Party' and those are not extremist.
- Most (if not all) European countries have embraced the concept of a social welfare state. In the USA they have the American Dream.
- etc.
I just know enough of American politics to know I really don't have a clue.
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The UK used to have a socialist party known as Labour, after it was branded New Labour it distanced itself from the old idealist positions of the left of its party, embracing the Thatcherite policies of the right established in the eighties. We now have 2/3 main parties fighting over the centre ground, none of them wanting to be seen as left or right in extreme. What we are left with is an incoherent babble about 'my party' being 'better managers' than the others.
I agree Joep, US politics is confusing to us europeans, but our own politics is confusing to us too!
regards,
Mark
p.s I can't imagine anything worse than a cult of personality of say Brown, Sarkozy or Merkel
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Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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09-28-2009, 06:19 AM
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#61
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Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,202
Offline
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Re: Obama Cult of Personality
Quote:
Isaac Bettis wrote:
I missed the part where you were required to read all the posts in the Open Discussion forum.
Just sayin.
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I missed the part where I was forbidden to comment on the degeneration of a forum into a few individuals' personal soapbox. JUST SAYIN.
As I said earlier, you can argue that that's "open" as all get-out, but it sure as hell is not a "discussion". While we're being "jerkish".
Last edited by lbb : 09-28-2009 at 06:22 AM.
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09-28-2009, 06:19 AM
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#62
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Dojo: Aikikai Gent, Brugse Aikido Vereniging
Location: Bruges
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 139
Offline
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Re: President Obama's policy and ideology
Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
So little to do, so much time, so much delicious beer to drink
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Corrected ;-)
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09-28-2009, 06:21 AM
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#63
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Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,202
Offline
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Re: President Obama's policy and ideology
Quote:
Joep Schuurkes wrote:
To illustrate: most people in Holland were in favor of Obama, but had little knowledge of his ideas about gay marriage, euthanasia, social security, etc. .
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Um, what ideas about euthanasia?
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09-28-2009, 06:48 AM
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#65
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Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 177
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Re: Obama Cult of Personality
Did a quick check of my kid's school.
Pictures of Obama in my kid's classroom? - No
Singing songs in praise of the great leader? - No
These things probably happen in a couple places. I doubt the practice is pervasive, certainly not to the Mao/Stalin level. The fear and angst seems excessive.
Mark
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09-28-2009, 06:54 AM
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#66
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Location: Rotterdam
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 459
Offline
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Re: President Obama's policy and ideology
Quote:
John Hogan wrote:
I think this is in reference to the supposed 'death panels' in health care reform, & the idea it is more cost effective to let the elderly die rather than waste money to treat them for a short time.
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Euthanasia is not letting someone die because that's cheaper than treatment. Euthanasia is allowing people to choose to end their life, because they suffer from a terminal illness and see no point in prolonging their suffering.
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09-28-2009, 07:01 AM
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#67
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
Offline
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Re: Obama Cult of Personality
Quote:
Mark Gibbons wrote:
Did a quick check of my kid's school.
Pictures of Obama in my kid's classroom? - No
Singing songs in praise of the great leader? - No
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Keeping tabs on what your kids are being taught is one of the main reasons for posting about the schools and school related organizations that do post pictures and sing praises of political figures.
David
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Go ahead, tread on me.
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09-28-2009, 07:15 AM
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#68
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Dojo: AIA, Los Angeles, CA
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,604
Offline
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Re: Obama Cult of Personality
When my daughter started school they had a president of George Bush up on the wall. Because he was the president.
There is a photo of Barack Obama on the wall now. Because he is the president.
In a few years (or maybe a few years plus four) the picture on the wall will change. Because there will be a new president. Who knows, maybe it will be Glen Beck. Or Al Franken. Then in either case the wringing of hands will be audible from space...
There will always be those who are more enthusiastic and go overboard in admiration or dislike of the president. Obama seems to bring out more of the extremes.
But some comparisons are more like the SNL vid where they lampooned Glenn Beck's logic. Grabbing individual incidents and drawing comparisons to state-mandated central governmental institutionally controlled policies of Soviet Russia or Maoist China is simply absurd. I had the bad timing to spend way too much time in college studying the incredibly complex Soviet political system (only to watch it fall later). And making this sort of comparison is much like pointing to a couple piles of dirt in a backyard in the flatlands and saying "hey, look, it's higher right there than ground level -- there is a new mountain range in Iowa!"
FWIW on a related note my daughter listened to the President's speech to kids. I asked her about the message (work hard, study, stay in school, try to help) and she said "You think? Isn't that what we're supposed to do anyway?" (You have to have a daughter into Hannah Montana to get the "you think?" reference.)
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09-28-2009, 07:29 AM
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#69
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 106
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Re: President Obama's policy and ideology
Quote:
Joep Schuurkes wrote:
Euthanasia is not letting someone die because that's cheaper than treatment. Euthanasia is allowing people to choose to end their life, because they suffer from a terminal illness and see no point in prolonging their suffering.
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Yes, I know. But if you read the stories provided in the links, the term 'Euthanasia' is used.
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09-28-2009, 10:17 AM
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#70
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Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,276
Offline
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Re: Obama Cult of Personality
With regards to what Jimbo said:
HEAR HEAR!
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Gambarimashyo!
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09-28-2009, 10:41 AM
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#71
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
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Re: Obama Cult of Personality
Quote:
Jim Sisley wrote:
So how can it be that Obama is suddenly responsible for the actions of a teacher in an elementary school? Simply put, they can't. We cannot hold Obama responsible for the actions of every teacher throughout the US. To try to do so would be insane.
That's not to say that the actions of that teacher and to some extent even the school ought not to be scrutinized. No, indeed they should. However, we should be sure to see the whole picture before we go too deeply.
(snip)
Now this doesn't mean that we should not criticize him. No, we must. We must find fault with his actions and his decisions whenever we can. However, trying to hold him to task because of this song is childish. In short, it just isn't logical.
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I agree with these two parts of your post. If it was only one silly song from the teacher at that school then no problem, discipline the teacher and move on.
It is not one teacher in one school.
David
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Go ahead, tread on me.
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09-28-2009, 10:50 AM
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#72
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 106
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Re: Obama Cult of Personality
Quote:
Jim Sisley wrote:
This morning, a person driving a huge SUV with a Palin bumper sticker, ran a red light right in front of me. It crashed right into a Prius that had just started out into the intersection because the light was green. The SUV fled the scene without waiting for the cops to show up.
Obviously, since the driver is a supporter of Palin, Palin herself must be a poor driver. Moreover, Palin must also encourage people to disregard responsibility in such situations.
Sound familiar?
Of course, you would probably want to tell me that the driver's actions are not the responsibility of Palin and that they cannot reflect either negatively or positively on Palin. I would agree with you.
So how can it be that Obama is suddenly responsible for the actions of a teacher in an elementary school? Simply put, they can't. We cannot hold Obama responsible for the actions of every teacher throughout the US. To try to do so would be insane.
That's not to say that the actions of that teacher and to some extent even the school ought not to be scrutinized. No, indeed they should. However, we should be sure to see the whole picture before we go too deeply.
Fact: The event occurred during National Black History Month. The election of our nation's first African-American President obviously would warrant attention during such a week. It was a tremendous achievement.
Fact: Children in grade school do sing songs about presidents. My son in second grade did a whole class performance on our nation's presidents. Regardless of the perceived success/failure of his time in office, Obama's name will forever be linked with Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson, Roosevelt, and the other great presidents, simply because of what he represents by being the first black president.
Now this doesn't mean that we should not criticize him. No, we must. We must find fault with his actions and his decisions whenever we can. However, trying to hold him to task because of this song is childish. In short, it just isn't logical.
--jimbo
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Actually, your example isn't logical. And for me the issue isn't holding Obama 'to task', but the teacher & her school, & all those that find this behavior acceptable. Would the teacher of acted this way if Obama would have not existed, no of course not because she directly refers to Obama & has Obama posters all over the place - so in that respect Obama is responsible, but the person leaving the scene of an accident would STILL behave that way, whether Palin existed or not.
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09-28-2009, 01:50 PM
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#73
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 106
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Re: Obama Cult of Personality
Quote:
Jim Sisley wrote:
I accept your criticism of my example. You are correct, but my point was simply to ask how Obama is expected to be held accountable for the actions of a school teacher he has probably never met or even heard of. In that way, my example fits perfectly.
And, of course, you leave out the fact that she refers to Obama (who does exist) not simply because he is the leader of our country, but that he is the FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN leader of our country. This is a rather important fact, I think. After all, it was National Black History month.
--jimbo
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As has been mentioned, it is not holding Obama accountable for the schools actions - it's holding the teacher & school. Obama has come into the picture because of his cult like love by his supporters that give rise to this type of behavior, much like any other well liked/worshiped leader. But for this particular incident, the teacher & not Obama is being held accountable as is indicated by the district's investigations & parent response to this school & teacher. The criticism I have seen from the parents on the news has ALL been about the inappropriateness with respect to introducing politics & songs of worship of a politician (who happens to be Obama). Not because it is Obama, but because it is for a politician. There is a difference.
(Now, the fact that the song deals with Obama, why that is just icing on the cake for us Obama haters... )
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09-28-2009, 03:46 PM
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#74
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 106
Offline
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Re: Obama Cult of Personality
Quote:
Jim Sisley wrote:
Then we are in agreement that in no way should this incident reflect upon Mr. Obama. We have agreed that the school itself should be the target of all criticism. Good. Now as I see it, the question that remains in front of us is whether a song praising the accomplishments of a man who is the president of our country ought to be taught in class or not. Can you agree with that?
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Yes.
Quote:
...I agree that if such a song were made about Bill Clinton in the 90s or George Bush in the early part of this century, then we should perhaps investigate and reprimand the teacher for bringing in political issues to such young children.
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Okay, agreed.
Quote:
...But this song was made about the nation's first African-American president, during a week celebrating the achievements of African-Americans in this country. Granted, your case would be much stronger if the teacher had simply taught the song during April or some other time of the year. But within context, the song, I think, has a purpose greater than politics, just as the landing on the moon in the 60s was a thing all Americans, Democrats or Republicans, could be proud of.
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Well, no. It is clear that the principal/teacher were HUGE (or UGE depending if you are a supporter of Trump) Obama supporters & this sing-a-long to a religious song that praises his POLICIES makes it different. They may have used Black History Month as an excuse, but I think they would have done it anyway because of the evidence of their spreading of his policies throughout the school. Someone mentioned that Bush made it policy to teach creationism in school - well, what if we, at some southern school that happens to be a conservative district, used a religious song & substituted Bush's name for Jesus (like they did with Obama) to sing his praises & to sing about how evil abortion is (just like his policies said), during Christmas time? If you explain away song about Obama's POLICIES during Black History Month, then a song about Bush's POLICIES during Christmas would be OK?
When I grew up. we had pics of presidents in our social studies or history or government classes - but that is to teach civic responsibility & government (3 branches, etc). But this was above & beyond. If you want to say, well, it's to celebrate 1st black (or really, 1st half-black, half-white) Prez, but then why not create a song celebrating Clinton being the 1st Prez born in Arkansas? Or Bush being the 1st MBA Prez?
Quote:
You may ... dislike him as a person
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I dislike him as a Pres & as a politician.
Quote:
...but as an American, you should be proud that your country rose above petty racism to select him as your leader
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I actually am disappointed that someone would vote for him because of the color of his skin. Just as I would be disappointed if someone voted for McCain because he is white. You should vote for a Prez because of his policies, not skin color.
Quote:
...For the first time, we can truly say that America is truly a place where ANY man can be what he wants to be, regardless of race or creed.
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Well, I have always thought that & didn't need Obama's election to prove it (are you Michelle Obama by any chance? )
Quote:
...By the way, a quick Google search will list many songs used by teachers praising Presidents. Should they not be allowed to use these in the classroom? Most center around President's Day. Is it OK then to be used within the context of that holiday? Or is context completely irrelevant?
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Songs created in the political campaign should be taught - that is part of political campaign history, but to kids old enough, not children. A song created by a supported of a President to introduce children to politics with no knowledge of the parents that replaces 'Jesus' with the prez's name should not. And I have yet to see a parent at that school come out in support of it.
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