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06-23-2010, 11:17 PM
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#26
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 561
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Re: Weird bow
Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote:
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Hi all,
This is what I observe from the video:
1. When bowing (in seiza) to the shomen and to the class, Chiba's palms were pointing up (0.04). This gesture symbolizes the "opening of the heart" -- a sign of humility.
2. At 0.08 and 0.36, instead of the normal standing bow, he used the mushin (no-mind) gassho -- a form of greetings use in most Buddhist communities across the globe. He does this greeting/bowing most of the time.
3. After the demo at 0.33, he sort of took a sumo-stance and bowed touching the floor with the tips of his fingers and with his palms facing the class and then straightened up into a natural stance. By that gesture, he could be telling the class, "That's it, please practice".
I am not his student and neither have I attended his seminars, I guess that he expects less formality compared to some other shihans. When Toshiyuki Arai shihan from Gunma Aikikai visited our dojo a few years ago, he commented that students can practice more with the time utilized for all the formal bowings. He suggested that the formality of bowing be restricted to the opening and closing of the class only.
David Y
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06-24-2010, 03:22 PM
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#27
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Dojo: Searching for a new home
Location: Delaware (<3 still in Oregon!)
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,004
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Re: Weird bow
That type of bow happens in my dojo all the time. Never really thought about it. Sensei was a student of Chiba Sensei as well...
We also don't neccesarily bow on the same level. When sensei is done using me as uke, more often then not, I go into seiza and bow. He remains standing and bows to me. We just bow to whomever in whatever position we happen to be in (standing or in seiza).
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~Look into the eyes of your opponent & steal his spirit.
~To be a good martial artist is to be good thief; if you want my knowledge, you must take it from me.
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06-24-2010, 03:35 PM
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#28
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 394
Offline
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Re: Weird bow
If it turns out to be a variation of a Kashima bow then that would be a style of kenjutsu as some of us thought.
But there are a couple of interesting points this raises.
If George Ledyard doesn't mind I will quote from his response to an interesting article by Ellis Amdur about O Sensei and kenjutsu: http://www.aikidojournal.com/?id=1895
"If you look at the sword work done by Saotome, Chiba and Imaizumi Sensei (this is not meant to be a totally inclusive list) you will find elements of itto ryu and kashima sword. They have been asked where they picked this up and the response is immediately murky and vague… clearly the intention is to not provide an answer to the question."
So maybe we won't get a definitive answer.
Another interesting point is whether Chiba Sensei's students are consciously or unconsciously doing some version of this.
Also David made the point about the gassho. It's rare in aikido too in my experience. I believe it's used in shorinji kempo because as well as a greeting it's also an effective kamae (guard).
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we can make our minds so like still water, and so live for a moment with a clearer, perhaps even with a fiercer life
w b yeats
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06-24-2010, 05:21 PM
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#29
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Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,266
Offline
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Re: Weird bow
Quote:
David Yap wrote:
Hi all,
This is what I observe from the video:
1. When bowing (in seiza) to the shomen and to the class, Chiba's palms were pointing up (0.04). This gesture symbolizes the "opening of the heart" -- a sign of humility.
2. At 0.08 and 0.36, instead of the normal standing bow, he used the mushin (no-mind) gassho -- a form of greetings use in most Buddhist communities across the globe. He does this greeting/bowing most of the time.
3. After the demo at 0.33, he sort of took a sumo-stance and bowed touching the floor with the tips of his fingers and with his palms facing the class and then straightened up into a natural stance. By that gesture, he could be telling the class, "That's it, please practice".
I am not his student and neither have I attended his seminars, I guess that he expects less formality compared to some other shihans. When Toshiyuki Arai shihan from Gunma Aikikai visited our dojo a few years ago, he commented that students can practice more with the time utilized for all the formal bowings. He suggested that the formality of bowing be restricted to the opening and closing of the class only.
David Y
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The use of Gassho by Chiba Sensei is in keeping with the fact that he is a Buddhist priest.
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06-24-2010, 08:55 PM
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#30
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 561
Offline
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Re: Weird bow
Quote:
Joe Curran wrote:
The use of Gassho by Chiba Sensei is in keeping with the fact that he is a Buddhist priest.
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Hi Joe,
That, explains the palms up bow at the beginning of the class/seminar.
In gassho,
David Y
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06-25-2010, 12:21 AM
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#31
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Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,266
Offline
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Re: Weird bow
Quote:
David Yap wrote:
Hi Joe,
That, explains the palms up bow at the beginning of the class/seminar.
In gassho,
David Y
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Dear David,
Yes indeed.At the opening of every class Chiba Sensei use the palm upward bow [indicating nothing in the hands as it were]rather than placing palms of both hands on the tatami ie the normal method.
Cheers,Joe.
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