Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Language

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-10-2007, 06:51 AM   #1
Raul Roldan
Dojo: Aikikai NSW
Location: Sydney
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 18
Australia
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Mainly, we kyusha do just have to be patient and learn.[/quote]

sorry can't resist. i very seldom join in but i thought i'd say, the usual term is mudansha

cheers and i'm out again
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 04:58 PM   #2
Qatana
 
Qatana's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Petaluma, Petaluma,CA
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 834
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

I think "kyusha" is a lovely word. Some people tend to forget that Japanese is a building block language, and some people forget that "aikido" is a word O'Sensei made up out of building blocks. Some people seem to feel that only native Japanese people are allowed to do this.

The word "mudansha" implies,to my mind, a state of "not having" as in, "I don't have rank because I don't have a dan grading";whereas the word "kyusha" implies to me a state of "having" as in " I have a ranking of 2nd kyu". Coming from a negatively-oriented person, I'd rather be though of as a "have" than a "have not".

Last edited by Qatana : 11-12-2007 at 05:02 PM. Reason: verbosity

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 09:16 PM   #3
mjhacker
 
mjhacker's Avatar
Dojo: Renshinkan
Location: Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 206
United_States
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

I realize this is a "no yudansha allowed" conversation, but the proper term is most definitely "mudansha." As far as I've been able to tell in 20-some years of studying the Japanese language, there exists no such word as "kyusha" as is intended in this context.

It's fun to make up faux Japanese words and translations that make us feel good, I guess. Don't be surprised if nobody understands you, though.

Don't even get me started on the nonsensical break down of Aikido into ai + ki + do...

Back to the "adult" table...

Michael Hacker
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Renshinkan
http://renshindojo.com/
自由心流合気武道 - 鍛心館

The Language of Aikido
http://thelanguageofaikido.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 08:35 AM   #4
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,615
United_States
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Quote:
Jo Adell wrote: View Post
I think "kyusha" is a lovely word. Some people tend to forget that Japanese is a building block language, and some people forget that "aikido" is a word O'Sensei made up out of building blocks. Some people seem to feel that only native Japanese people are allowed to do this.
I'd say that only people with a working knowledge of the language should do that. Since I don't have a working knowledge of the language, I don't do that. Sorry, but there is a right and a wrong to many things in life. That's just the way it is.

Quote:
The word "mudansha" implies,to my mind, a state of "not having" as in, "I don't have rank because I don't have a dan grading";whereas the word "kyusha" implies to me a state of "having" as in " I have a ranking of 2nd kyu". Coming from a negatively-oriented person, I'd rather be though of as a "have" than a "have not".
I guess I'm just surprised that anyone would have to make up a word that doesn't exist to feel better about something that doesn't make any difference anyway. I've been tossed by people with literally no rank as well as people with rank. Women as well as men. Small people as well as big...you get the idea.

Anyhoo, butting out.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 09:40 AM   #5
Beard of Chuck Norris
Dojo: Aberdeen Aikido Yuishinkai
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 181
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Only reason i have used "kyusha" is because, along with "mudansha" are terms we use in kendo.

Everyone without grade is mudansha, if you have a kyu grade you are kyusha (and mudansha)... i didn't make this up.

Bloody know-it-alls, really!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 09:44 AM   #6
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,615
United_States
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Ah, then I stand corrected. Or sit...

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2007, 11:57 AM   #7
Chris Farnham
Dojo: Aikido of Champlain Valley/Hamamatsu Aikidokai/Aikido Shidokai
Location: Hamamatsu, Japan
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 97
United_States
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

I have heard the term Yukyusha before. In the USAF, kyu ranked students are issued Yukyusha books, as opposed to the Yudansha books issued to Dan grades.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2007, 03:15 PM   #8
dragonteeth
Dojo: Elkton Ki-Aikido
Location: Virginia
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 108
United_States
Offline
Re: "Mudansha", "Kyusha", "Yukyusha"

There are a couple of us in our dojo that are non-degree seeking students (for lack of a better term) who choose just to train and not focus on achieving rank. It would be kinda nice to have a second term since we literally are "mudansha" by choice to differentiate those who seek rank from those who (for whatever reason) do not. But then as Ron said, semantics don't really count for much on the mats. =)

Lori
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2007, 07:01 PM   #9
L. Camejo
 
L. Camejo's Avatar
Dojo: Ontario Martial Arts
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,423
Canada
Offline
Re: "Mudansha", "Kyusha", "Yukyusha"

Someone with better knowledge of the language and the traditional Japanese elements involved can probably correct me here if needed, but I am almost certain that below Sho Dan (1st level) one in fact is without rank, regardless of Kyu level. In this context mudansha makes perfect sense, unlike the others.

Just a thought.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2007, 08:37 PM   #10
Aristeia
Location: Auckland
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 971
New Zealand
Offline
Re: "Mudansha", "Kyusha", "Yukyusha"

Quote:
Lori Snidow wrote: View Post
There are a couple of us in our dojo that are non-degree seeking students (for lack of a better term) who choose just to train and not focus on achieving rank. It would be kinda nice to have a second term since we literally are "mudansha" by choice to differentiate those who seek rank from those who (for whatever reason) do not. But then as Ron said, semantics don't really count for much on the mats. =)

Lori
I've had similar conversations with someone else. It confuses me. If people choose not to "focus on acheiving rank" then they are making usually a pretty strong statement on rank being unimportant to them (as in many orgs you will be graded eventually unless you actively avoid). that being the case, how does it bother the self same people that they are confused with other unranked students?

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2007, 08:57 PM   #11
Qatana
 
Qatana's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Petaluma, Petaluma,CA
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 834
Offline
Re: "Mudansha", "Kyusha", "Yukyusha"

Hey, *I* did not bring up the word and really do not appreciate having this discussion 'blamed" on me. The "other" Jo started this particular discussion, I was just saying that *I* like the word. It works for me, in this country, in a vernacular that doesn't ever have to be brought up in Japan.

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2007, 05:44 AM   #12
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Re: "Mudansha", "Kyusha", "Yukyusha"

Quote:
Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
- Jabberwocky by Charles Lutwidge Dogdson (Lewis Carroll)

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:27 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate