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Old 09-09-2002, 01:04 PM   #26
rachmass
Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati/Huron Valley Aikikai
Location: Somerset Michigan
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 794
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Hey Chuck,

Thanks again. Your ideas are appreciated, and I'll take them under consideration. I particularly like the idea of a discount for six months, and a couples discount. Thanks also for the lead on a supplier, although I don't think I'll be offering any supplies as then I have to get a sales tax license too :-(

Got several leads happening here, and I'll keep you all posted on what transpires!

best,

Rachel
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Old 09-09-2002, 04:27 PM   #27
Jermaine Alley
Dojo: Aikido Of Richmond
Location: Richmond, VA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 63
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Money for Training

Our dojo costs about $60 a month which isn't bad when you compare it to the other systems that are out there.

Be careful when it comes to signing contracts. At some schools contracts are good, because they guarantee an income for the instructor, the school, and usually the parent organization. But by signinging one, you might get into all kinds of legal and money issues in the long run.

I had a realy bad experience with a dojo that was under another parent organization that had its members sign a contract. I was in school at the time and had to travel a bunch. I thought that they would allow some kind of allowance for me, but they ended up making me pay for classes that i couldn't take cuz i was out of the state. Bad situation...

The majority of really good systems are not really concerned with making a lot of money at all.

good luck in finding a good school....

j
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Old 09-09-2002, 06:32 PM   #28
kironin
 
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Dojo: Houston Ki Aikido
Location: Houston,TX
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,038
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Quote:
Greg Jennings wrote:
I know folks get tired of me bringing this up but...

Our dojo charges nothing...period. No tuition, no grading fees, nada, nothing.

I generally give students completing tests a gift.

I know that this model doesn't fit every situation. It does, however, have a number of strengths and I highly recommend it.
Hi Greg,

How about, MOST situations.

I thought you belonged to an organization ? You pay your students rank fees ?

The only way I could see charging nothing is if I ran a club that belonged to no organization and that had a special deal to use public space with mats for free.

or I had a goverment's support that paid for everything

or I had a rich benefactor that sponsored the club

or I was just plain wealthy and enjoyed paying for a private social club to meet several times a week.

I have seen teacher's throw thousands of dollars into their programs over a number of years even when students were paying $40-60 per month.

I wonder how we got from Sokaku Takeda keeping a ledger and charging a fee for every technique taught to giving students gifts for passing tests ? I fail to see any benefits from having students who are used to expecting to be given everything for free.

I am not fond of people in the martial arts who talk of it as a business, but I think the pendulum can swing too far the other way too. Why do I have to endanger my financial well-being so my students can have a bit more spare change each month ?

When I win the lottery, I will consider becoming a charity organization. I would still have them pay dues but they could vote on the charity that we donate to as a group.

best regards,

Craig

member dues are $70/month.

members with provable financial hardship are dealt with on a individual basis.
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Old 09-10-2002, 06:49 AM   #29
Veers
 
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Dojo: Shinkikan Aikikai Aikido of Corpus Christi
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 169
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"Dealt with" lol :]

The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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Old 09-10-2002, 07:15 AM   #30
rachmass
Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati/Huron Valley Aikikai
Location: Somerset Michigan
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 794
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okay, I guess I am short name illiterate. What does LOL mean? Is there a place that sites what various abbrieviations mean?
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Old 09-10-2002, 07:43 AM   #31
Paul Clark
Dojo: Yellow Springs Aikido
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 52
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Quote:
I wonder how we got from Sokaku Takeda keeping a ledger and charging a fee for every technique taught to giving students gifts for passing tests ? I fail to see any benefits from having students who are used to expecting to be given everything for free
Craig,

I started at Capital City Aikido in Montgomery with Greg Jennings and Ron Myers sensei. Their situation is that they have access to permanent space at no charge, so they have little or no "recurring" costs to run the dojo--only the capital costs of setup that Greg and Ron have paid themselves. As Greg once told me--"When you pay for aikido, you pay for the expenses of the dojo, the aikido is a gift", or words to that effect. (Greg, hope I don't too grossly misquote!)

Now, I could have afforded to pay, certainly, and I do now here in Dayton. But "the gift" will always be key to my aikido, because it was given in the "vigorous" martial spirit that defines not only Myers sensei's technique and approach, but now mine as well. For that I'm eternally grateful, and as Greg and sensei encouraged me to do, I'm doing my best to pass on that "gift" every time I train, whereever I train.

By the way, when I was last there (gosh, 16 months ago, but I'll be back for the Goto sensei seminar in Nov!), all the students clearly understood the value of that real gift. Lest you think the students ungrateful or spoiled, know that it's not unheard of for small gifts to flow in both directions at important events

Paul
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Old 09-10-2002, 07:49 AM   #32
memyselfandi
Location: East Coast
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 55
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Quote:
Rachel Massey (rachmass) wrote:
okay, I guess I am short name illiterate. What does LOL mean? Is there a place that sites what various abbrieviations mean?
Yeah, I also have problems with all these abbreviations.

Try http://netforbeginners.about.com/lib...cronyms101.htm and http://my.erinet.com/~stealthy/Misc/acronyms.html (this one doesn't have any popups).
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Old 09-10-2002, 07:56 AM   #33
rachmass
Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati/Huron Valley Aikikai
Location: Somerset Michigan
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 794
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Thanks Ari!

LOL, Laugh out Loud. Okay, now I have a source to go to.

Hey Ari, did you ever get your aikido situation worked out? Have you found a dojo to train at?

best,

Rachel
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Old 09-10-2002, 08:03 AM   #34
memyselfandi
Location: East Coast
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 55
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Actuall yes. As far as all the other religious stuff is concerned, I am allowed to join the dojo. Now all I need is permision from the instructor for my "special circumstance", and money . (I'm waiting for the money before I actually contact him again )
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Old 09-10-2002, 07:49 PM   #35
Veers
 
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Dojo: Shinkikan Aikikai Aikido of Corpus Christi
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 169
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Bummer, HEB said they probably won't have a job opp for me :[ *sigh* back to the drawing board? I hope not... *sigh* :[ Well, hey, maybe they will after all, eh?

(oh yeah, and sorry for not explaining "lol" I've been busy with school)
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Old 09-11-2002, 04:12 PM   #36
Veers
 
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Dojo: Shinkikan Aikikai Aikido of Corpus Christi
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 169
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And I still have to wait four days to find out.

Hey, who gave this thread 4 out of 5? Cool :]

The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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Old 09-11-2002, 08:24 PM   #37
Greg Jennings
Dojo: S&G BJJ
Location: Springboro, OH
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,132
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Quote:
Craig Hocker (kironin) wrote:
Hi Greg,

I thought you belonged to an organization ? You pay your students rank fees ?

The only way I could see charging nothing is if I ran a club that belonged to no organization and that had a special deal to use public space with mats for free.
Our organization, the Takemusu Aikido Association, http://www.takemusu.org/ charges $35 per year per dojo. It's insignificant, so I pay it out of my pocket.

The organization has nothing to do with kyu tests; that's the dojos' basket of eggs. I'm the only yudansha our dojo has produced. What we've talked about when it comes up again is adding nothing to the fees that the organization charges. They, BTW, are basically exactly what the Zaidan Hojin Aikikai charges them. Gotta love low overhead.

As you indicate, we're really able to do this because we have a situation where we don't pay anything for our rent or utilities. Myers Sensei and I, with occasional help, have footed everything else.

As I said, it's not for everyone, but it has its advantages.

Frankly, not many people are going to hang around and train as vigorously as we train, so the model ends up working for us. Your milage will probably vary. I'm OK with that. I hope you're OK with the way I do things because I ain't changin'.

Best Regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 09-11-2002, 08:30 PM   #38
Choku Tsuki
 
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Dojo: Bond Street Dojo
Location: New York, New York
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 123
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Quote:
Ari Fuchs (memyselfandi) wrote:
...
Forty nine posts and you don't practice aikido! Yikes. All I can say is, focus! And keep it to yourself. And good luck.

--Chuck
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Old 09-11-2002, 09:12 PM   #39
Greg Jennings
Dojo: S&G BJJ
Location: Springboro, OH
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,132
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Quote:
Paul Clark wrote:
Craig,

I started at Capital City Aikido in Montgomery with Greg Jennings and Ron Myers sensei. Their situation is that they have access to permanent space at no charge, so they have little or no "recurring" costs to run the dojo--only the capital costs of setup that Greg and Ron have paid themselves. As Greg once told me--"When you pay for aikido, you pay for the expenses of the dojo, the aikido is a gift", or words to that effect. (Greg, hope I don't too grossly misquote!)

Now, I could have afforded to pay, certainly, and I do now here in Dayton. But "the gift" will always be key to my aikido, because it was given in the "vigorous" martial spirit that defines not only Myers sensei's technique and approach, but now mine as well. For that I'm eternally grateful, and as Greg and sensei encouraged me to do, I'm doing my best to pass on that "gift" every time I train, whereever I train.

By the way, when I was last there (gosh, 16 months ago, but I'll be back for the Goto sensei seminar in Nov!), all the students clearly understood the value of that real gift. Lest you think the students ungrateful or spoiled, know that it's not unheard of for small gifts to flow in both directions at important events
I don't want anyone to get me wrong: I see nothing wrong with different approaches. This one just works for us for a number of reasons. If one can find free space, it really takes a load off.

Paul: You quoted me accurately. BTW, when you see the dojo again, you'll see that there are two very fine Jim Clark bokuto on the shomen. To me, that captures the essence of our little country dojo.

Best Regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 09-12-2002, 07:29 PM   #40
Kat.C
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 212
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Quote:
Greg Jennings wrote:
While doing things non-profit is difficult, it has a number of advantages. One is that there is no pressure to tone down your training to accomodate the average, sedentary, person.

Best Regards,
Hi Greg,

Just curious as to why would you have to tone down your training if the students had to pay for it? By the way, anytime you mention about free classes I get this really strong urge to move!

Actually, getting back on topic, our sensei charges reasonable rates and we get a discount for paying for three months at a time and a couple's discount. We pay a little under $75 a month for the two of us. 3 classes are offered per week (we can only make two right now unfortunately) It's paying the babysitter that really kills us!

Kat

I find the aquisition of knowledge to be relatively easy, it is the application that is so difficult.
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Old 09-12-2002, 08:57 PM   #41
Greg Jennings
Dojo: S&G BJJ
Location: Springboro, OH
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,132
United_States
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Quote:
Kathryn Cole (Kat.C) wrote:
Hi Greg,

Just curious as to why would you have to tone down your training if the students had to pay for it? By the way, anytime you mention about free classes I get this really strong urge to move!
You'll just have to come visit and find out . Just wait till the hot weather is over. Montgomery was the hotest place in the CONUS yesterday.
Quote:
Kathryn Cole (Kat.C) wrote:
Actually, getting back on topic, our sensei charges reasonable rates and we get a discount for paying for three months at a time and a couple's discount. We pay a little under $75 a month for the two of us. 3 classes are offered per week (we can only make two right now unfortunately) It's paying the babysitter that really kills us!
That sounds quite reasonable to me, especially if it's in Canadian dollars vice US$.

Best Regards,

Greg Jennings
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