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Old 07-22-2009, 10:21 AM   #76
thisisnotreal
 
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Re: "..even looking at all?"

Here are some more thoughts I had (speaking of 'extremes'). Please forgive any unintended offense. (and the length). no answers. only more questions.

here's what I wonder about "it" and the people who are going after 'It' the *best* they can:

say you were really a bottom-line kind of guy.
You want to do Aikido. That is job 1.
You do it *thee* absolute best you can. You then find, along the way, that best aikido is done pursuing internal skills. That is/becomes job 2.
Then you really want to do that purely; as it helps you accomplish job 1. It is thee singular thing encompassing getting job 1 done.
so you do it. then you find that to do this (job 2) the best you have to learn about the subtle body/systems. That becomes job 3.
Then you find that to master that, you need to learn about TCM. Then you learn to become a healer,etc. That is job 4.
Then you find that meditative/guru/shaman techniques/TM/mikkyo/esoteric/inner/ura of eastern religions helps you to do the medicine/subtleThings/'energyWork'/etc better. That is job 5. You may have just now signed up for a worldview (read: religion)
I think from then on it is more of the same until the end of the line (i.e. we only last ~100years); as these things have no end.
you go deeper. you go up. ‘you' kind of ceases to have meaning. micro/macrocosmos. yoga. meditation, visions, etc. yoking with the Brahman. unity consciousness/harmony with ki/tao of universe, etc...
and *you* have exchanged what you are for .. something else. (and it's not necessarily better, true or something you would have deliberately chosen at the outset, but became 'logical' because of what you were ultimately pursuing, which was *what* again?)

is our eventual apathy/contentment with who or what we are the main thing that prevents us from following that entire sequence?

What is the flaw in the reasoning? This cannot be unavoidable(?). Or is that what is meant by the ‘Do'/way?
I do not think what I wrote can be right. Where is the error?
Where does always seeking to get 'better' go? How do you measure 'better'. Is more 'power' the 'better'? Something is always 'missing', right? It is said there is no end to these ways.

why was i even doing Aikido at the beginning, anyway?
Wasn't it just a martial art? A hobby? For fun? A way to fight so as not to fight?
That's why I like the approach of the guys who 'stole' the jewel of aiki, outside of the systems, used it and polished it for the one clear purpose. Fighting and building the body. One thing was kept as one thing.

I thought this was good: "Be careful what you look for. You just may find it."

All the best to everyone,
Josh
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:09 AM   #77
Lyle Bogin
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post

From my perspective, this is the A-number-one thing that has always bugged me most about aikido: it is packed to the rafters with people whose favorite recreation is passing judgment and condemning others as not practicing aikido. Couch it in all the elevated terms you want, but I can't help but see this as exceptionally childish behavior.
This is the problem I have with most martial artists.

Imaizumi Sensei, in my experience, doesn't trash talk anyone's art...to the point that his own students have incredibly diverse expressions of aikido. It drives some people so crazy they have to move on.

It's frightening, I think, to feel that no one has the answer. That deep need for comfort and stability we all have forces us into the judgment trap. We are entitled to our opinions of people's individual skills, of course. But I find that trying to follow the lead of people you disagree with on the mat is often more fruitful than staying in your comfort zone.

So folks can tell me my stuff "isn't aikido" (or my other favorite fall back "you need to relax"), and I can think that their stuff is about as useful as a pecker on a pope. We still need each other to progress.

Remember 15 years ago when all you had to say was "well I practice BJJ and blahblahblah" ?
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:27 AM   #78
jxa127
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Basia made a good point that I hope won't be lost:

Quote:
Basia Halliop wrote: View Post
That's one of the things that makes it hard for me personally to think of these skills I hear people talking about as 'essential', or of aikido without them as 'not truely aikido' -- if aikido is the art that O-sensei 'created', and he personally chose who to give ranks to, then he had some criteria in mind when he gave out those ranks, and he gave ranks to all these Shihans who I'm told don't have or teach these skills -- so how can he himself have considered them to be 'fundamental' or 'part of the basic definition of doing aikido, without which it's something else and not aikido'? How can one fairly criticize someone for their right to teach aikido if O-sensei himself is the one who picked them to go teach it? To me that doesn't make sense logically or seem fair.
Peter's series of articles on "Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation" (best to start at the beginning: http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?filter[1]=Peter%20Goldsbury&t=12008) deals precisely with those questions.

From what I've read, I don't think we can assume that O Sensei was concerned about his students being able to replicate exactly what he was doing. I'm also not convinced that the ranks he gave correlated all that well with the students' ability to demonstrate a deep understanding of aikido as O Sensei saw it.

I don't doubt that his students were darned good martial artists. Nor do I doubt that many of them got an appreciation for internal skills. It's just that (based on what I've read by Ellis and Peter), O Sensei didn't have transmission of the art as his primary goal. Rather, aikido was a religious expression for O Sensei, who saw himself as a shaman dedicated to the divinity of the Japanese emperor because of his understanding of Japanese creation myths, and (at least until his move to Iwama in 1942) who was tightly associated with right-wing militarism. O Sensei saw the power of aikido coming from the kotodama -- which contains mystical word-sounds with innate power. O Sensei did not see it as his responsibility to explicitly teach what he was doing, nor did he expect his students to adopt his religious views. It was enough for them to study aikido and master what they could.

So this leads to a very fundamental question: what is aikido? Or to put it more carefully, what characteristics should an art have to be considered aikido?

O Sensei's approach seemed to result in a messy hodgepodge of "stuff" comprising aikido that really only made complete sense to him. The first thing his senior students and his son seemed to do was somehow create a system of techniques and principles for what they learned so that aikido could be taught more efficiently. That seems to be the problem. The conventional wisdom is that O Sensei's son "watered down" aikido when he developed a standard curriculum. Yet it seems that what most people consider to be "aikido" is much closer to the standard curricula developed by Tohei, Saito, or Kisshomaru Ueshiba than what O Sensei was doing.

Whatever aikido is, people seem to agree that O Sensei and his direct students had it (or some version of it), and could demonstrate powerful technique. Even generations removed, lots of people have used their training successfully in violent encounters -- I have twice.

But if we're doing some version of aikido one or more generations removed from O Sensei's aikido, are we even doing aikido? Do we even want to do O Sensei's aikido? Is it possible to do O Sensei's aikido without also adopting O Sensei's religious and cultural views? Finally, is there some sort of empirical way to know when or if we're doing O Sensei's aikido? Is it only strong, effective technique, or is there something mystical we should understand?

I've posed a lot of the questions to Peter, who implied that he'll deal with many of them in future articles. For my own part, I'm convinced that the internal strength skills are an essential part of aikido. Beyond that, even after almost ten years of study, I'm not sure what exactly makes aikido different from other arts or how to precisely define aikido. I know the definition goes beyond the form of certain techniques. But other than that, I'm somewhat stumped.

Regards,

----
-Drew Ames
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:57 AM   #79
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Nice post Drew, Thanks!
Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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Old 07-22-2009, 12:20 PM   #80
Keith Larman
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
If someone used to be looking, but now they are satisified with their approach, I really cannot relate to that person. I am not satisfied with what I'm doing now, I want to do it better. I always felt that way.
You seem quite satisfied with your training with Dan H. Have you already transcended him or are you still learning? So can we say you're satisfied with your training there? And receptive to what he's teaching you? Isn't that the way it should be no matter where you train?

So, assuming that can you accept that can you also accept that there may be other instructors out there who can and do provide everything another student may be looking for in their training who may be doing very different things from your teacher?

This is not limited to Aikido. It encompasses all things of non-trivial value. I find my own training in a variety of things quite time consuming and comprehensive. I haven't mastered what I'm trying to master yet so I'm content working on what I need to work on now. That's not shutting down and giving up --- that's recognizing I have a lot to learn and I'm at a place where I have the opportunity to learn a lot more. None of that precludes me from having a drive to improve. In fact that drive is what gets me into my workshop every day to destroy my back and eyes working harder to master what I'm trying to master. Just to show it to some grumpy fella next month who'll say "do it over and change this..."

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
IF someone is not looking at all, do them a favor and throw them out of the dojo.
Who said anyone is training as a complete, mindless drone? Again this is a caricature of the position. If I'm in a setting that is challenging and fulfilling my needs why can't I focus on learning what's being offered? I expect my students to be engaged, involved and asking questions when I teach. I do the same when I take someone else's class. Again you are taking her statement about not looking as equating to giving up. Or to put it another way, I don't need to be "looking" for something if I sincerely believe I've already got it. Or if I sincerely believe I don't need that particular thing.

Not all agree on what is important.

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
IF you are looking, the questions are typically: looking for WHAT?, HOW are you appoaching that?, how well is that working for people in general? etc...
Which will generally result in somewhat different answers for each person who sincerely asks themselves that question...

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Old 07-22-2009, 12:45 PM   #81
rob_liberti
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

I would hope that one would be somehow both satisfied and insatiable at the same time no matter where you train.

So, while I have not transcended Dan, I will try EVERY SINGLE DAY and I will continue to train with others who I think can help me do that.

I'm totally okay with other teachers. I simply cannot relate well at all to any non-insatiable attitude towards martial arts. To suggest the extreme of completely satisfied (which I admit I just took at face value of what was written) - still just seems like hyperbole to me.

Rob
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Old 07-22-2009, 01:15 PM   #82
jason jordan
 
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Not making any sort of judgment here, but just hoping to add a certain level of honest assessment.
Who can tell what is missing if they haven't felt what is missing?

I had a twenty year student of one of the top men in the internal Chinese arts come and train here. He made an interesting comment that the people who train here have never forgotten
"I didn't know, that I didn't know."
While the comment is clear enough at face value, the reason many of the teachers from different arts took it to heart, is that it expressed their own broader experiences and thoughts in one succinct line.
So, while I can read various comments from people, I assign a relative weight to them being that I have met so many senior men in the arts who would completely disagree with them about just what is missing from where.
If that is true- then how does one assess accurately whether or not something is missing?
All you may really get for replies here is the equivalent of:
1. Are you happy with your training?
To which you may get a "Yes!"
2. Do you feel something is missing?
To which you might get "Yes" or "No" or "I dunno, but my teacher will tell me when I am ready to receive more."
And so it goes.
I keep suggesting people get out and check it out for themselves. I have faith in people that once felt they will make the best choice for themsevles.
Cheers
Dan
P.S. Oh...my ICMA friend? He quit the world famous Chinese teacher and went and found someone less famous- who could and would, actually teach internal power within the movements!
I totally agree with this statement. (Not that you need me to)
I think this is why training with other people and styles and arts is necessary. I remember to this day that the greatest Irimi Nage I have ever felt was from a lil lady who at that time was Nidan. She moved me soo effortlessly but I had absolutely no control. My point is, that until I went out and trained with someone else I didn't know that I didn't know. To me this is what makes a true MARTIAL ARTIST. I don't think there are very many Martial Artist around anymore. I think a lot of people have become Martial Stylist instead.

Just stating my humble opinion.

Whatever is missing is not the fault of the art but rather the fault of the practioner not searching or striving for more.
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Old 07-22-2009, 01:34 PM   #83
Basia Halliop
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Quote:
I'm totally okay with other teachers. I simply cannot relate well at all to any non-insatiable attitude towards martial arts. To suggest the extreme of completely satisfied (which I admit I just took at face value of what was written) - still just seems like hyperbole to me.
I think you can be satisfied with your environment (teacher/curriculum/etc) without any implication that you're satisfied in you own skill or learning.

If you extend your metaphor of insatiability, you may be the hungriest person on earth but if you live in a supermarket you may still feel no need to go down the street to another store.
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:03 PM   #84
rob_liberti
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Quote:
Basia Halliop wrote: View Post
I think you can be satisfied with your environment (teacher/curriculum/etc) without any implication that you're satisfied in you own skill or learning.

If you extend your metaphor of insatiability, you may be the hungriest person on earth but if you live in a supermarket you may still feel no need to go down the street to another store.
I don't know. I lived in a supermarket (to the extent of your analogy) - and I still felt compelled to try other stores.

There is something about not being a baby-bird anymore.

I'm starting to think about what exactly is the difference between a client and a student? What is the difference between a dojo and a McDojo? And, most interestingly, if "aiki" becomes main-stream will that bar be raised for that line between student/client and dojo/McDojo? Something to think about anyway.

Rob
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:30 PM   #85
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
I simply cannot relate well at all to any non-insatiable attitude towards martial arts.
Do you have a hobby besides the consuming passion that is aikido or martial arts? I'd guess not if your passion is big enough.
Anyhow, that's what I think aikido is to a lot of people: a hobby they practice once/twice/... a week. And that's cool, but for those people training in a good dojo and going to the occasional seminar when their schedule allows it, is enough.

(p.s.: Please don't read the above as a description of people who may have participated in this thread. Posting in this forum already places these posters outside the group of the most minimal hobbyists.)
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:39 PM   #86
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

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Joep Schuurkes wrote: View Post
Posting in this forum already places these posters outside the group of the most minimal hobbyists.)
huh?
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:40 PM   #87
Basia Halliop
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Quote:
I don't know. I lived in a supermarket (to the extent of your analogy) - and I still felt compelled to try other stores.
That would mean missing out on a lot of the stuff in the original supermarket. A person can only eat so much so fast.

One person prefers to weight their experience towards the depth side of the scale and another is comparatively more concerned about being well-rounded?
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:42 PM   #88
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Quote:
(p.s.: Please don't read the above as a description of people who may have participated in this thread. Posting in this forum already places these posters outside the group of the most minimal hobbyists.)
Oh I don't know...most would probably describe me these days as a hobbiest. Maybe not minimal...but still a hobbiest.

Best,
Ron (hobbiests can have high goals too, you know)

Ron Tisdale
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:48 PM   #89
Keith Larman
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

I'll also point out that there is no shortage of what are rather disparagingly called "salad bar" martial artists. Those who go from one teacher to the next always looking for that special something, loading up a little of everything, but ultimately tasting next to nothing. Sampling a little of everything but never actually learning anything of depth or value. Most end up being the proverbial "Jack of all trades, master of none". There can be an insatiable appetite for learning, but it needs to be tempered, focused and nurtured. The very same desire to learn as much as possible can often lead someone to never spend the time to really learn any single thing well.

Heck, I remember a guy I trained with *years* ago. Sensei told him to do something specific because of a habit he had. So he told him to do this one thing. That guy spent years totally focused on the "trick" to doing the technique "correctly". Did it work? Yes, it did for him because it fixed a variety of things that one guy was doing wrong. But that "trick" was specific to him, his needs, his build, his "way" of moving. Fast forward years later and I see him confiding in a student that there is this special "trick" to doing it well... It didn't work. Not at all. Because he confused the one small lesson with the entire scope of how to do the particular art and all that is assumed underneath all of that.

Rob, it's great that you're gung-ho and doing so well training with Dan. Obviously he lit up inspiration in you that was missing before. That's what is supposed to happen with a sensei/student relationship. But given that Aikido is something that tends to defy description and is something that is practiced on all sorts of levels by many practitioners (meaning not just waza), it shouldn't be surprising that others teaching different things may inspire their students just as much doing very different things from you.

Finally, your inability to understand what motivates someone else or to understand why someone may want to do things differently from you is a statement about your understanding, not their practice. I made a small joke about evangelism earlier -- I meant that only partially in jest. I have a dear, dear friend who is extremely religious. He simply cannot fathom how I don't see God in every molecule around me. More power to him in his beliefs. I just don't see it. But his inability to fathom my agnostic nature has no relevance to the truth value of my thoughts and beliefs. His understanding is not necessary for something to be the case. Neither is mine. And neither is yours.

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Old 07-22-2009, 02:49 PM   #90
Basia Halliop
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

hobby: An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure.

http://www.answers.com/topic/hobby

Nothing wrong with being a hobbyist.
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:50 PM   #91
Keith Larman
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Frankly for most of us the best we can aspire to is be a serious, obsessive hobbiest. In the end we all have to pay the bills and for the overwhelming majority of us that isn't done by pursuing our own training in Aikido.

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Old 07-22-2009, 02:58 PM   #92
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Quote:
Basia Halliop wrote: View Post
Nothing wrong with being a hobbyist.
I wouldn't claim there is, but there's a difference between a hobby and a passion.
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:01 PM   #93
Nicholas Eschenbruch
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Finally, your inability to understand what motivates someone else or to understand why someone may want to do things differently from you is a statement about your understanding, not their practice.
That is a hell of a statement, thanks! First, it really made me laugh, and now that I start thinking about it in relation to myself, it gives me a lot of stuff to ponder and be humble.
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:58 PM   #94
Keith Larman
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Quote:
Nicholas Eschenbruch wrote: View Post
That is a hell of a statement, thanks! First, it really made me laugh, and now that I start thinking about it in relation to myself, it gives me a lot of stuff to ponder and be humble.
Thanks, it's something I tend to remind myself of on a fairly regular basis. Unfortunately it is usually just after I've blathered on for way too long about an obscure swordsmith to some poor person at a party who couldn't possibly care less about it...

But hey, it interests me!

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Old 07-22-2009, 04:01 PM   #95
dps
 
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Quote:
Jason Jordan wrote: View Post
Whatever is missing is not the fault of the art but rather the fault of the practioner not searching or striving for more.
Or recognizing that he or she already have it but don't know.

David

Trust only movement. Life happens at the level of events not of words. Trust movement. --Alfred Adler
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:23 PM   #96
Mike Sigman
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Rob, it's great that you're gung-ho and doing so well training with Dan. Obviously he lit up inspiration in you that was missing before. That's what is supposed to happen with a sensei/student relationship. But given that Aikido is something that tends to defy description and is something that is practiced on all sorts of levels by many practitioners (meaning not just waza), it shouldn't be surprising that others teaching different things may inspire their students just as much doing very different things from you.

Finally, your inability to understand what motivates someone else or to understand why someone may want to do things differently from you is a statement about your understanding, not their practice. I made a small joke about evangelism earlier -- I meant that only partially in jest. I have a dear, dear friend who is extremely religious. He simply cannot fathom how I don't see God in every molecule around me. More power to him in his beliefs. I just don't see it. But his inability to fathom my agnostic nature has no relevance to the truth value of my thoughts and beliefs. His understanding is not necessary for something to be the case. Neither is mine. And neither is yours.
Hi Keith:

I'm not sure I'd agree with the above perspective. For instance, in Tohei's book "This is Aikido" (written under the auspices of Hombu Dojo, at the time before the split) he shows pictures of physical demonstrations of what you should be able to do with "ki". That's not inpiration... that's a demonstration of what should be in Aikido. For someone else to believe that a person should be able to also demonstrate the physical phenomena of "ki" demonstrations is not quite in the realm of "inspiration", but more of a valid debate point. Rob seems to be on the side of people who believe that the demonstrations of the founder of Aikido and of the head instructor of Aikido (at that time) are valid and necessary parts of Aikido. I think the "belief" and "inspiration" part of the debate actually belongs on the side of the people who believe that Tohei and Ueshiba didn't quite understand Aikido as well as they do.

Again, I think the ultimate argument in terms of "it" missing resolves not to belief but to what was demonstrably shown to be in Aikido. Some people believe that anything is Aikido, regardless of what Ueshiba and Tohei demonstrated. Some people think that Aikido is more what Ueshiba and Tohei plainly showed. The perspective that these two disparate viewpoints are equally valid is actually a vote for the first perspective, logically (IMO).

Of course that's a simplified analysis, but I think it's reasonably valid.

Best.

Mike
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:54 PM   #97
Keith Larman
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Hi Keith:

I'm not sure I'd agree with the above perspective. For instance, in Tohei's book "This is Aikido" (written under the auspices of Hombu Dojo, at the time before the split) he shows pictures of physical demonstrations of what you should be able to do with "ki". That's not inpiration... that's a demonstration of what should be in Aikido. For someone else to believe that a person should be able to also demonstrate the physical phenomena of "ki" demonstrations is not quite in the realm of "inspiration", but more of a valid debate point. Rob seems to be on the side of people who believe that the demonstrations of the founder of Aikido and of the head instructor of Aikido (at that time) are valid and necessary parts of Aikido. I think the "belief" and "inspiration" part of the debate actually belongs on the side of the people who believe that Tohei and Ueshiba didn't quite understand Aikido as well as they do.

Again, I think the ultimate argument in terms of "it" missing resolves not to belief but to what was demonstrably shown to be in Aikido. Some people believe that anything is Aikido, regardless of what Ueshiba and Tohei demonstrated. Some people think that Aikido is more what Ueshiba and Tohei plainly showed. The perspective that these two disparate viewpoints are equally valid is actually a vote for the first perspective, logically (IMO).

Of course that's a simplified analysis, but I think it's reasonably valid.

Best.

Mike
Mike:

I don't disagree at all -- one of my sensei is fond of berating the junior instructors about not teaching it enough. He tends to say we might as well be teaching "Ai Do" if we're not going to bother with the ki part. But this is moving to a different area of discussion than what I was trying to deal with.

Rob's perspective does resonate with me fairly well. I was commenting on the much bigger issue of how it is taught, how it is approached, and how each individual students finds "value" in what they do. Rob's "repositioning" of another person's comment was unfair IMO and implied a lot of things that were never stated. As I said I do think ki is fundamental to what I'm looking for in Aikido as my style comes quite strongly from Tohei's line. Ki tests, exercises, etc. are all integral to our training from day 1. But Aikido has long morphed and the word itself covers a vast cross section of styles, ideas, training and lineages. It has become something of quite varied nature. So what is important to me (and you and Rob and others) may not necessarily be a shared view of what Aikido has "become". Or should become. We could argue the validity of styles that don't demonstrate or don't well integrate that stuff (the magical "it"), but the reality is that things have changes, morphed, expanded and gone off in a variety of directions. Or even another perspective is to say that there are so many thing involved in learning Aikido. I will even agree that internal skills are very important, but I'd also say there is a lot more to learn, discuss, and work on. And how each group balances the larger picture will vary. Some seem to focus almost exclusively on one aspect and then leave the impression that anyone who doesn't similarly focus almost exclusively on the same thing isn't doing "real" (tm) Aikido. I was just trying to point out that it just ain't so simple.

Finally, the reason I posted at all about some of the comments was that I thought they were unfair from a discussion point of view and logically dubious at best. A very simple and straightforward comment was taken and expanded into something that I seriously doubt anyone would think was really there to begin with.

Anyway, I'm truly sorry I ever posted to the topic. Lord knows there's enough blather on-line to fill a septic tank and there's little reason for me to contribute more myself.

You still coming to So Cal in next month? I just got a hall pass from the wife for that weekend -- I thought I was going to have to go on a family thing on Saturday but she offered to take care of things and the kid herself. So suddenly I find myself free...

I'll send Gary an e-mail tonight...

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Old 07-22-2009, 06:05 PM   #98
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Anyway, I'm truly sorry I ever posted to the topic. Lord knows there's enough blather on-line to fill a septic tank and there's little reason for me to contribute more myself.
You know, in my experience a lot of discussion is indeed blather, but in substantive discussions there is almost always a certain amount of "bickering", so a lot of useful information gets through before, during, and after that bickering. I.e., it's part of the process.
Quote:

You still coming to So Cal in next month? I just got a hall pass from the wife for that weekend -- I thought I was going to have to go on a family thing on Saturday but she offered to take care of things and the kid herself. So suddenly I find myself free...

I'll send Gary an e-mail tonight...
Sure. Still coming. I'll email Gary, too, and tell him that regardless of where he is in enrollments to certainly include you. We can have some good, enjoyable discussions/show-and-tell about ki skills. I'm looking forward to it.

Best.

Mike
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:07 PM   #99
Keith Larman
Dojo: AIA, Los Angeles, CA
Location: California
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Great. I just dropped Gary an e-mail myself. Saturday for sure, maybe Sunday as well (I'm pushing my luck considering I've go the San Francisco Token Kai the next weekend -- lord knows how far behind I'll be...).

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Old 07-22-2009, 06:14 PM   #100
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Great. I just dropped Gary an e-mail myself. Saturday for sure, maybe Sunday as well (I'm pushing my luck considering I've go the San Francisco Token Kai the next weekend -- lord knows how far behind I'll be...).
Well, I hope you can make Sunday since there's going to be a lot on a massively important area of "ki" that no one has really addressed on this forum.

Best.

Mike
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