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Old 06-04-2004, 01:49 AM   #26
Chris Li
 
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

Quote:
Dave Organ wrote:
Yah - was gonna ask that; MrGorth, how much are you paying monthly for yourself and your 6yr. old? That's a telling point - if you're paying high; it's a pretty clear indication the teacher is in it for the money; not the art.
Like Sokaku Takeda?

Best,

Chris

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Old 06-04-2004, 02:19 AM   #27
Chuck.Gordon
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
Like Sokaku Takeda?

Best,

Chris
Ooooh. You're a wicked man, Chris. I like that about ya.

How's Hawaii these days?

As to the question originally posted, I'd be leery of ANYONE who lists themselves with the World Sokey Dokey Council.

Chuck

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Old 06-04-2004, 06:49 AM   #28
Greg Jennings
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

Although we have a situation where we charge no tuition, I have no problem with a professional teacher. I'd just expect value for my money.

As to the other: I couldn't train with someone that had such serious issues that they went through the whole fake rank, fake credential, fake award, fake this, fake that deal. I'd be worried that those issues would eventually come to bear on me.

Why not just be independent and let one's abilities speak for themselves?

FWIW,

Greg Jennings
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Old 06-04-2004, 07:12 AM   #29
DaveO
Dojo: Great Wave Aikido
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
Like Sokaku Takeda?

Er... the dead one; or is there another Sokaku Takeda out there somewhere?

If it's the aforementioned 60-yr. dead Takeda; is Badyna a legitimate modern-day version of him?

That said; I'll retract the comment; and the implication that high prices is an indicator of unscrupulous activity. Professional instructors (i.e. Senseis that make their living teaching MA) must charge a higher price to survive; what I should have said was based on the info so far (and the website) I'll bet his prices are rather higher than one would normally be willing to pay - perhaps in the hundreds monthly that George mentioned; based upon his supposed supreme experience.
Sorry - hope that clears up my question.

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
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Old 06-04-2004, 07:53 AM   #30
mrgorth
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

Wow. All I can say is this sucks about as bad as something can suck. I can't stand respecting people who don't deserve it. I mean, the he gives demonstrations all over the place and all, does kid safety courses. I'm just beside myself. OK, 2 more questions to try and save me from any more problems.

1) The site mentions that the school is the 2004 national martial arts school of the year from the USMAA. Is THIS a legit organization?

2) Is anyone familiar with Aikido Kenkyukai? www.aikidokenkyukai.org?

Thanks again for the help. I have no idea how I'm going to handle this.
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Old 06-04-2004, 08:13 AM   #31
DaveO
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

Quote:
Mark Orth wrote:

Thanks again for the help. I have no idea how I'm going to handle this.
Easy - leave. Now. Don't go back there - why bother? Just go and sign up with Donovan Waite if he's close-by. If you're learning Aikido (just like any MA) you want to learn from a True Source. Don Waite is one such - he's your best bet.

Cheers!

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
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Old 06-04-2004, 08:25 AM   #32
mrgorth
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

I most likely will leave Dave. My instinct is to confront him on this stuff but, being a trusting soul, I might then be convinced to stay. I'm sure that Sensei Waite is great but it is definitely not convenient and I'd like my son to train the same place that I do. I've been getting some other options though. Thanks.
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Old 06-04-2004, 08:50 AM   #33
batemanb
 
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

Quote:
Mark Orth wrote:
2) Is anyone familiar with Aikido Kenkyukai? www.aikidokenkyukai.org?
Only what I've looked up on the web. Takeda Sensei is a student of Yamaguchi Sensei, which is very good lineage to follow.

rgds

Bryan

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 06-04-2004, 08:52 AM   #34
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

I just trained with the kenkyukai group last night. I emailed Mark with my thoughts. Great group to train with. How could you not like training with a guy who smiles like this while throwing you?

http://www.aikidokenkyukai.org/kirisawa.htm

Ron

Last edited by Ron Tisdale : 06-04-2004 at 08:55 AM.

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 06-04-2004, 10:05 AM   #35
akiy
 
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

As with all other times when people ask about dojo recommendations and such, my basic answer would be for the person seeking recommendations to get out and visit a bunch of dojo, preferably at least a few times at each place. Watch how the teacher interacts with his/her students. Watch how the students interact with their teacher. Watch how the students interact with each other. Without getting exposure of the different kinds of approaches to teaching, it''s often difficult to make an informed decision.

As far as the Philadephia area goes, I've had the pleasure of training with the folks at the Doshinkan (Utada sensei, 7th dan Yoshinkan) dojo, the Homeikan dojo (where our very own Ron Tisdale trains), and Aikido Seishinkan (David Goldberg sensei, 4th dan). I've also trained with Takeda sensei who is the head of Aikido Kenkyukai several times and have had wonderful experiences with him that still affect my training to this day. I have also trained with Yamada sensei who is Waite sensei's teacher; I have also heard great things said about Waite sensei and have learned some things from his Ukemi video tapes.

And so on. And that's just from my own limited experience -- and I've only been to Philadelphia once!

There are a lot of folks in aikido now. It's worth it to take a look around.

Just my thoughts,

-- Jun

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Old 06-04-2004, 10:43 AM   #36
gstevens
 
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

First a disclaimer:

I am a new-by, Last week I passed my 5th Kyu exam. There are a lot more knowledgabe people on this forum.

I initially went to a Dojo that is literally two blocks from my house. I didn't like it there. The Dojo was nice, the people were nice, but I could feel an undercurrent of a lot harder style that I was not comfortable with.

I am not in any way knocking that Dojo, it looked very competent! After attending two classes there, I decided that Aikido was not the thing for me, it didn't resonate with me.

So I just gave up on the idea, I was severely disappointed, but let it go.

Two months later a friend of mine that I did not know was an Aikidoka stopped in from far off. I was telling him what I was up to, and mentioned my disappointment and experience. For some moments he looked at me, then said; "Guy, what are the chances that the RIGHT dojo for YOU is the first one that you went to, and the one closest to your house?"

I looked at 4 more Dojos in about a 25 mile radius, and found the one that I am going to. It FITS me right now better than my skin sometimes. If I am able to let go of the thoughts that zing around my head, when I go in, I come out of every class with something I needed in life. The Aikido there seems very good technically, and I can tell you that when Sensei or the other sempai work with me it is effective on my 240+ pound frame.

I now attend about 6 classes a week. Can't get enough mat time.

Look around, look around. Be critical, be careful, there are excellent instructors out there, go find one. LISTEN to your own intuition!


Guy
:-)

Last edited by gstevens : 06-04-2004 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 06-04-2004, 10:48 AM   #37
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

Quote:
As far as the Philadephia area goes, I've had the pleasure of training with the folks at the Doshinkan (Utada sensei, 7th dan Yoshinkan) dojo, the Homeikan dojo (where our very own Ron Tisdale trains), and Aikido Seishinkan (David Goldberg sensei, 4th dan).
Hi Jun! {waves}

I've been corresponding with the student in question, and have given him some options as to where to look. I didn't mention Goldberg Sensei though (my second aikido teacher)...I just forgot! Also a good place to train (I believe he's under Saotome Shihan now).

Thanks for the kind words! FYI, I now practice at the Doshinkan.

Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 06-04-2004, 11:35 AM   #38
DanD
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

Your sensei seem to be e VERY talented man. Soooooo many Dans to one person.......or??

As for PhD/MS - isn't it that you're dropping the "lower" title MS once achieved a "higher" degree ? (PhD, for example)? just wondering if all those degrees and Dans are making sense to him ?

Have to admit that it looks more like a wal mart that a martial art.
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Old 06-04-2004, 11:49 AM   #39
Jim Sorrentino
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

Hi Ron (and All),

David Goldberg's dojo (Aikido Seishinkan, Norristown, PA) is an ASU dojo under Saotome-sensei. David has hosted seminars with both Saotome-sensei and Ikeda-sensei, as well as other senior ASU instructors.

I spoke with Art Carey of the Philadelphia Inquirer this morning. He will soon send me hard copies of the two stories he wrote in February 1997 for the Inquirer about Keith Badyna. Apparently, the Inquirer does not keep everything in its on-line archives after a certain period. I will get the articles scanned into PDFs, and post them to this thread.

Mr. Carey was quite eager to help expose Keith Badyna for the charlatan that he is. According to Mr. Carey, when students question Mr. Badyna about the Inquirer stories, Mr. Badyna claims that the Navy forced him to pretend that he had not been a SEAL, because of the classified nature of his work!

Perhaps AikiWeb should have a forum to expose fraudulent and criminal behavior by people claiming to teach aikido It would be like e-budo's Bad Budo forum, but specific to aikido. It would certainly be helpful to collect the material on John Lamont and Bruce Klickstein, as well as Keith Badyna, in one place. By the way, John Lamont returned to teaching aikido after serving over 8 years for having sex with one of his 13-year-old students. He claims that he does not accept students under 18, and rumor has it that he also still claims that the local authorities set him up because he had been a commando who did top-secret killing stuff --- just like Keith Badyna!

Let's shine the bright lights on these vermin.

Jim
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Old 06-04-2004, 11:54 AM   #40
Michael Neal
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

Quote:
"Tae Kwon Do - 1st Dan (Cireum)
Ninjutsu - 2nd Dan (Sasori Ryu)
Jujitsu - 2nd Dan (Sekiguchi Ryu)
Kung Fu - 1st Dan (Chow-Gar)
Karate - 1st Dan (Shukokai)
Kenjutsu - 1st Dan (Shinkendo)
Saboten Ryu - 8th Dan
Shinkendo --1st Dan
Kendo - 1st- Dan
Aikido - 3rd Dan -- Tomiki
BS Alert! If someone claims to have more than 2 or 3 blackbelts I am always sceptical. There are some very talented martial artists that have multiple Dan ranks but the legitimate ones are pretty rare. There is no way I am going to believe someone legitimately has 10 blackbelts.

Last edited by Michael Neal : 06-04-2004 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 06-04-2004, 12:02 PM   #41
DaveO
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

I for one would be highly interested in seeing how Mr. Orth fares at a 'genuine' aikido dojo - I'd especially like to see his impression of aikido and its comparison with the possibly 'flavoured' Aikido he's taken up until now.
Mark; please let us know how things are going - and give us a report on how close Mr. Badnya's MA appears to the genuine Aikido you'll be taking.

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
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Old 06-04-2004, 12:03 PM   #42
Frp
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

I agree with all the posters that say run don't walk from this dojo.

Philadelphia has had plenty of great Aikido teachers for decades (including at least one of O Sensei's uchideshi, Shuji Maruyama, and maybe Utada was too? the Yoshinkan guys will have to answer that.) If this guy couldn't bring himself to train with one of them you can be sure he's not the real deal.

Do a search you'll find loads of Aikido in Philadelphia, and around it, no problem. You can private message me, I bet the other Philly folks here wouldn't mind either, if you have questions about any dojos in the area.
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Old 06-04-2004, 12:23 PM   #43
mrgorth
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

Quote:
Dave Organ wrote:
I for one would be highly interested in seeing how Mr. Orth fares at a 'genuine' aikido dojo - I'd especially like to see his impression of aikido and its comparison with the possibly 'flavoured' Aikido he's taken up until now.
Mark; please let us know how things are going - and give us a report on how close Mr. Badnya's MA appears to the genuine Aikido you'll be taking.
FYI, I'm 35, fit and a quick learner. I'm sure, if anything, I'd enjoy it more.
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Old 06-04-2004, 12:32 PM   #44
aikidoc
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

I feel Mark's thread gave me the impression he was already starting to question some things. This thread is a great example of people checking out the credentials of the place you wish to train. A legitimate instructor will be more than happy to provide you with proof of credentials-dan certificates, lineage, instructors, etc. A quality instructor is generally humble and does not need to beef up credentials to look important. In my short career, I have run into 3 fraudulent instructors/black belts. A lack of a paper trail, or lofty credentials is generally a red flag. 10 black belts at Keith's age is generally next to impossible unless you are cross training in several at the same time or the instructors are giving rank to you based on your past martial arts experience. There are a lot of these self aggrandizing instructors out their. Fortunately, most were in the karate arts. Now, unfortunately, they are cropping up in aikido. This is the 3rd one I've seen-see e-budo, when it's back up, for more.
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Old 06-04-2004, 01:01 PM   #45
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

Quote:
including at least one of O Sensei's uchideshi, Shuji Maruyama, and maybe Utada was too? the Yoshinkan guys will have to answer that.)
Yukio Utada was uchideshi to Gozo Shioda, founder of the Yoshinkan school of aikido. You can learn more about him here: www.yoshinkai.org.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 06-04-2004, 01:09 PM   #46
j0nharris
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

Quote:
Bronson Diffin wrote:
... . there's one out there that if you send them $150 they'll certify you as a monk

Bronson
I can be a monk?! How cool is that?
Do you have that address handy?

jon harris

Life is a journey...
Now, who took my @#$%! map?!
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Old 06-04-2004, 01:15 PM   #47
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

Quote:
I spoke with Art Carey of the Philadelphia Inquirer this morning. He will soon send me hard copies of the two stories he wrote in February 1997 for the Inquirer about Keith Badyna. Apparently, the Inquirer does not keep everything in its on-line archives after a certain period. I will get the articles scanned into PDFs, and post them to this thread.
Thank you, you'll be doing us a service! I didn't want to go into too many specifics without the article to back me up...so you taking this time to provide the evidence is important!

Quote:
Mr. Carey was quite eager to help expose Keith Badyna for the charlatan that he is. According to Mr. Carey, when students question Mr. Badyna about the Inquirer stories, Mr. Badyna claims that the Navy forced him to pretend that he had not been a SEAL, because of the classified nature of his work!
That does not bode well for his having changed...and neither does his website. Its a shame...with some work, its not hard to get certified under a legit instructor. Especially if the 3rd dan in 'Tomiki' aikido (shodokan) is for real. Once e-budo comes back up I'll be sure to post these in the appropriate place...

Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 06-04-2004, 01:26 PM   #48
Chuck.Gordon
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

Sources to help verify Navy SEAL claims:

http://www.authentiseal.org/index.htm
http://www.navyfrogmen.com/phony.html
http://vikingphoenix.com/military/veterans/phonyvet.htm
http://www.veriseal.org/

Chuck

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Old 06-04-2004, 01:32 PM   #49
Chuck.Gordon
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

And someone should ask Badyna what his BUDS class number was, who his swim buddy was and who his old man was.

As for his plethora of black belt ranks, that's one thing the Soke Council thingie does well ... pas out rank. Lots of it.

Chuck

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Old 06-04-2004, 02:43 PM   #50
Chris Li
 
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Re: Can I get your thoughts on my Dojo/Sense

Quote:
Chuck Gordon wrote:
Ooooh. You're a wicked man, Chris. I like that about ya.



Quote:
Chuck Gordon wrote:
How's Hawaii these days?
Pretty good - just got one of my former instructors from Japan to come down for a few days.


Quote:
Chuck Gordon wrote:
As to the question originally posted, I'd be leery of ANYONE who lists themselves with the World Sokey Dokey Council.

Chuck
Me too.

Best,

Chris

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