|
|
Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the
world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to
over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a
wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history,
humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.
If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced
features available, you will need to register first. Registration is
absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!
|
04-22-2008, 08:08 PM
|
#1
|
Dojo: Aikido of Suenaka-Ha in Greater Richmond
Location: virginia, U.S.A.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 136
Offline
|
Aikido. Effective?
I have been wondering lately, because i have seen everywhere (as I am sure many of you have too) people disclaiming Aikido and its effectiveness in combat, how many of you believe that you could use Aikido effectively in a real combat (life or death/ walk away or eat the pavement) situation?
Also, while I am asking this question, I would like to input that I whole heartedly believe that I could use what I have been taught in just such a situation.
And I don't care how long you have been studying, where you study, how you study, your rank… etc, I'm just looking for a straight up answer.
So.
Do you believe you could defend yourself using Aikido?
Domo,
Morgan
|
|
|
|
04-22-2008, 08:14 PM
|
#2
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
Quote:
Morgan Wible wrote:
I have been wondering lately, because i have seen everywhere (as I am sure many of you have too) people disclaiming Aikido and its effectiveness in combat, how many of you believe that you could use Aikido effectively in a real combat (life or death/ walk away or eat the pavement) situation?
Also, while I am asking this question, I would like to input that I whole heartedly believe that I could use what I have been taught in just such a situation.
And I don't care how long you have been studying, where you study, how you study, your rank… etc, I'm just looking for a straight up answer.
So.
Do you believe you could defend yourself using Aikido?
Domo,
Morgan
|
Yes. I have done it once before.
David
|
Go ahead, tread on me.
|
|
|
04-22-2008, 09:03 PM
|
#3
|
Dojo: Warren Budokan, Ohio USA
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 502
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
Nicely phrased, yet you left out one criteria that would be crucial....in a physical or non-physical response. Without becoming more descriptive, I think that would round-out your query.
Forgive me, if this is incorrect.
Train well,
Mickey
|
|
|
|
04-22-2008, 09:17 PM
|
#4
|
Dojo: Warren Budokan, Ohio USA
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 502
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
Me again...
Yes, many times...professionally.
Twice the citizen, without a doubt to the benefit of the aggressor...not saying that they would not remember me, if they laid eyes on me again. They would not attempt an endeavor as they had previously. The select few that attained infamy by pushing the envelope...those folks , I would like to thank for the opportunity to further my ability to pass on knowledge of real-life experience to others.
Train well,
Mickey
|
|
|
|
04-22-2008, 09:40 PM
|
#5
|
Dojo: Midwest Center For Movement & Aikido Bukou Dojos
Location: Hudson, WI
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 407
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
Used it many times as a bar manager and for event security.
I do DT for LEOs and they love the application of aikido for their needs.
There are Tai Chi folks that can whoop some serious butt, and their are "mixed martial artists" that can't punch their way out of a wet paper bag.
IMHO, I think many times it comes down to the artist and not the art in question.
|
Mike Ellefson
Midwest Center
For Movement &
Aikido Bukou
Dojos
|
|
|
04-22-2008, 10:01 PM
|
#6
|
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
|
|
|
|
04-22-2008, 11:47 PM
|
#7
|
Location: Kasama
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 507
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
Hi Morgan,
I think you touched upon this in your ' Aikido the Martial Art' thread but "effectiveness" (however defined) is worth questioning again and again. I'd say you may well be able to use aikido effectively in the situation you described, or you could completely stuff it up and "eat the pavement". The likelihood of the former rather than the latter is subject to all kinds of factors, frequently discussed on this forum.
Quote:
Morgan Wible wrote:
Do you believe you could defend yourself using Aikido?
|
Yes I could defend myself very effectively using aikido. I could also dramatically fail to defend myself using aikido.
Are there any arts in which this is not the case?
There are no easy answers, but I'd say that if you train to do something, the chances of actually being able to do it should increase if you're doing it right.
Carl
|
|
|
|
04-23-2008, 12:12 AM
|
#8
|
Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
As a soldier I have been trained using many different methodologies for combat and defense. Aikido being one of the methodologies that I still train in.
However, when asked the question concerning what I 'use', I use myself, body, mind, and whatever other tools are available, and/or appropriate for the job. I have never used a methodology such as aikido for anything else other than training myself.
Perspective, but I think we tend to attach ourselves too much to concepts and then identiffy with them. What it tends to do is constrain us, box us in, and cause questions such as "Does aikido really work?"
let go!
|
|
|
|
04-23-2008, 12:13 AM
|
#9
|
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,646
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
If trained correctly, you can't "use" Aikido, you become Aikido.
|
|
|
|
04-23-2008, 03:13 AM
|
#10
|
Dojo: Enighet Malmo Sweden
Location: Malmo
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 539
Offline
|
Avoiding attack
Quote:
Morgan Wible wrote:
Do you believe you could defend yourself using Aikido?
|
Yes.
I also believe that many times, using aikido, I avoid being attacked at all.
|
|
|
|
04-23-2008, 05:19 AM
|
#11
|
Location: Florida Gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,902
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
Quote:
Morgan Wible wrote:
Do you believe you could defend yourself using Aikido?
|
Straight up? Yes.
Train with the intent and intensity so you can know the same about yourself.
IMHO, effectiveness is more about the person than the style.
|
Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
|
|
|
04-23-2008, 06:12 AM
|
#12
|
Location: Indiana
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,311
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
Most of the time I can't use aikido on a compliant uke. Maybe if I had 10 years of free time. But the training methods are slow in developing any aiki skills in me. This of course is compounded by the fact I no longer train aikido on any regular schedule.
Nah, I stick to my XD for self defense and leave the martial arts to the hobbys.
|
- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
|
|
|
04-23-2008, 08:01 AM
|
#13
|
Dojo: Enighet Malmo Sweden
Location: Malmo
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 539
Offline
|
Aikido on aikido students
Quote:
Don Magee wrote:
Most of the time I can't use aikido on a compliant uke.
|
It is more difficult to do aikido techniques on aikido students at keiko, even if they are somewhat compliant - because they know what to expect, so they can easily block it, even unintentionally.
When an aikido student really resists a technique, it can be very difficult to do it. That is no mystery, and it is the same for any martial art.
The ingredient of surprise is a necessary part of any technique, so a compliant uke sort of has to pretend to be surprised
|
|
|
|
04-23-2008, 08:12 AM
|
#14
|
Location: St. Louis, MO
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 179
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
Quote:
Don Magee wrote:
Nah, I stick to my XD for self defense and leave the martial arts to the hobbys.
|
I agree with Don on this one. If this is just a "what if" sort of scenario, then the debate can be endless. Innumerable threads have been posted on this very same subject. The short of it is, nothing trumps a gun in regards to self-defense, provided you know how to use it and are aware of the legal & ethical ramifications of use-of-force.
There's a world of difference between "self-defense" and "combat"...and I'm presuming you mean self-defense. First, I think you need to properly assess what sort of situation/scenario you typically find yourself in when the concern about "self-defense" arises and then examine your motives and what the proper course of action should be (i.e. legal & ethical concerns).
If you are overly concerned about self-defense and fear for your life, then it would behoove you to legally acquire a concealable handgun (with the proper training & permits, of course). Even in feudal Japan, hand-to-hand was the "last resort" for the samurai when he found himself engaged in combat.
The real issue is having a self-defense mindset, being alert and aware of your surroundings at all times...keeping your guard up. Simply being observant of all that is going on around you and not intentionally placing yourself in dangerous/threatening situations (e.g. going to the "wrong side of town" and the like) are the single most effective means of self-defense.
The other issue is if you have a killer instinct or not. This not in the sense of actually killing, but rather in regards to if you are willing to fight. It doesn't matter what style/type martial art you study...what matters is if you have the ability to "flip the switch" and fight for your life when need be. Some folks just don't have it in them.
For what it's worth...
Last edited by Dewey : 04-23-2008 at 08:14 AM.
|
|
|
|
04-23-2008, 08:40 AM
|
#15
|
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,110
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
As long as you focus your Aikido training on learning the principles of Aikido, eventually you will be conditioned to use those principles when confronted with situations similar to those your learned the principles in.
In a combative situation you do not have time to think, you react. If conditioned with Aikido principles, your reactions will be Aikido movements.
Been in that situation a handful of times and that is exactly how it works, you just subconsciously react to the attack - when it is over, you are often amazed at what you did because there was no thought involved and things just happened.
Greg
|
|
|
|
04-23-2008, 08:44 AM
|
#16
|
Dojo: Ponca Aikikai
Location: Ponca City, Oklahoma
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 131
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
Can I defend myself with Aikido??? huhhhh, don't know. Maybe if I am lucky and find the right person I might, or I might get my butt kicked from he to the North Pole. One thing is sure, Aikido is something I didn't have before, so I have a few more chances to get out with the least damage.
You asked about me and I answered about me, not being one of the best (actually light years away from it) Aikidoka. But yes I think someone proficient in this art can very well protect himself.
|
|
|
|
04-23-2008, 09:04 AM
|
#17
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,415
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
Maybe the answers to questions like this one should be divide into two categories.
1.) You can see the attack coming and have some time to prepare.
2.) You did not see the attack coming and you reacted from your training.
David
|
Go ahead, tread on me.
|
|
|
04-23-2008, 09:20 AM
|
#18
|
Location: Indiana
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,311
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
I know what is going to happen when I'm surprised. Because I've had it happen.
I clinch, knee/elbow and throw. It's built into me at this point to automatically do this to break the guys balance so he can't hurt me. The funny part is I don't really train knees and elbows much, so I'm not sure where that part comes from, but basically I do dirty judo. The very few times this has happened it has ended up with me placing my 'attacker' in the knee on belly position before I even realize what's going on.
If I have time to prepare, I have time to leave or get help.
|
- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
|
|
|
04-23-2008, 12:13 PM
|
#19
|
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
I sure hope so. It's the only art I have any competence in. I hope I never need to find out.
|
|
|
|
04-23-2008, 12:24 PM
|
#20
|
Dojo: Aikido of Suenaka-Ha in Greater Richmond
Location: virginia, U.S.A.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 136
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
Quote:
Carl Thompson wrote:
Hi Morgan,
I think you touched upon this in your ' Aikido the Martial Art' thread but "effectiveness" (however defined) is worth questioning again and again. I'd say you may well be able to use aikido effectively in the situation you described, or you could completely stuff it up and "eat the pavement". The likelihood of the former rather than the latter is subject to all kinds of factors, frequently discussed on this forum.
Yes I could defend myself very effectively using aikido. I could also dramatically fail to defend myself using aikido.
Are there any arts in which this is not the case?
There are no easy answers, but I'd say that if you train to do something, the chances of actually being able to do it should increase if you're doing it right.
Carl
|
I see what you are saying, good point. And i really liked the last paragraph of your reply
|
|
|
|
04-23-2008, 12:25 PM
|
#21
|
Dojo: Aikido of Suenaka-Ha in Greater Richmond
Location: virginia, U.S.A.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 136
Offline
|
Re: Avoiding attack
Quote:
Stefan Stenudd wrote:
Yes.
I also believe that many times, using aikido, I avoid being attacked at all.
|
I very much agree with this, and i feel the same way as well.
|
|
|
|
04-23-2008, 12:26 PM
|
#22
|
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
Location: Malibu, California
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,295
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
I use Aikido everyday... That's how effective it is....
On a side note who wants to bet this thread grows to 15 pages? LOL.
WIlliam Hazen
|
|
|
|
04-23-2008, 12:27 PM
|
#23
|
Dojo: Aikido of Suenaka-Ha in Greater Richmond
Location: virginia, U.S.A.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 136
Offline
|
Re: Aikido on aikido students
Quote:
Stefan Stenudd wrote:
It is more difficult to do aikido techniques on aikido students at keiko, even if they are somewhat compliant - because they know what to expect, so they can easily block it, even unintentionally.
When an aikido student really resists a technique, it can be very difficult to do it. That is no mystery, and it is the same for any martial art.
The ingredient of surprise is a necessary part of any technique, so a compliant uke sort of has to pretend to be surprised
|
I also find it fun when i am uke and i REALLY AM surprised. haha. i love that feeling, and it lets you develop a better trust of your ukemi skills at the same time :P
|
|
|
|
04-23-2008, 01:40 PM
|
#24
|
Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
No William, I'd rather see the "other" thread rise from the grave!
|
|
|
|
04-23-2008, 03:12 PM
|
#25
|
Dojo: East Sheen Aikido and Kashima No Tachi
Location: London, UK
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 289
Offline
|
Re: Aikido. Effective?
I have had a positive experience of it being effective for me (unexpected and indeed I was a little drunk at the time).
However I also remember as a youngster shooting birds (pigeon/pheasant) with a shotgun - I was a better shot when "surprised" and put gun to shoulder and shot immediately than when I saw the bird coming from a long way away and had time to line up (and anticipate it).
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:23 AM.
|
vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
|
|