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08-04-2010, 10:57 AM
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#1
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Dojo: q10
Location: hcm
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3
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The difference between Tenkai and Kaiten
The difference between tenkai and Kaiten.
Both have the word "ten" and "kai", but is set at two different locations.
This blanket mean?
Tenkai can say is a form tenkan, as tenshin? in my dojo is entering a blow by moving underneath uke's arm, but we call it the "uchi" opposite "Soto." Does anyone know this technique?
Please share.
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08-04-2010, 11:24 AM
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#2
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 711
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Re: The difference between Tenkai and Kaiten
My understanding is that tenkai and kaiten mean exactly the same thing (although I don't hear kaiten very often?)... it's when you rotate your body 180 degrees by twisting your hips without taking steps (unlike tenkan). Personally I often hear both tenkan and tenkai used to refer to what's technically irimi tenkan or irimi tenkai (i.e., step forward and then tenkan or tenkai)... sometimes people don't specifically say irimi, I guess because it's obvious from the context.
As far as I have always heard them used, tenkan, tenkai, and tenshin (and irimi, and soto tenkan, etc) are basically just the names for steps you take or different ways you can displace your body and all are used as building blocks in many many many different techniques.
Uchi and soto I believe mean 'inside' and 'outside' so they refer to two different versions of a technique where one you enter 'inside' (e.g., by extending their arm and passing through the opening you've made) and the other 'outside'.
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08-04-2010, 03:38 PM
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#3
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Location: Aichi-ken, Nagoya-shi
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 644
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Re: The difference between Tenkai and Kaiten
Broadly, tenkai is turning to change direction. Kaiten is turning around a (literal or figurative) axis. A boat changing course is tenkai. A spinning wheel is kaiten.
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Josh Reyer
The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
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08-04-2010, 04:52 PM
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#4
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Location: NJ
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 241
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Re: The difference between Tenkai and Kaiten
if this helps. Tenkan would be to turn and step(back) while a kaiten opening would be a (180)turn with no step
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Dont make me, make you, grab my wrist.
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08-04-2010, 05:22 PM
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#5
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Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,339
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Re: The difference between Tenkai and Kaiten
Quote:
William Oakes wrote:
if this helps. Tenkan would be to turn and step(back) while a kaiten opening would be a (180)turn with no step
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It was Tenkai, not Tenkan.
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Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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08-05-2010, 12:39 AM
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#6
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Location: Ohio
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 710
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Re: The difference between Tenkai and Kaiten
At my school, tenkai is a pivot while tenkan is a shift...I think. Maybe I have that backwards...I've been drinking!
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Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
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08-05-2010, 05:44 PM
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#7
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Location: NJ
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 241
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Re: The difference between Tenkai and Kaiten
Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote:
It was Tenkai, not Tenkan.
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Thanks and I know
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Dont make me, make you, grab my wrist.
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08-09-2010, 06:22 PM
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#8
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Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
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Re: The difference between Tenkai and Kaiten
Quote:
Joshua Reyer wrote:
Broadly, tenkai is turning to change direction. Kaiten is turning around a (literal or figurative) axis. A boat changing course is tenkai. A spinning wheel is kaiten.
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+1
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08-10-2010, 04:05 PM
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#9
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Dojo: Dale City Aikikai
Location: VA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 394
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Re: The difference between Tenkai and Kaiten
One thing to remember is that Japanese has a thesaurus just like other languages. So they had to find different words to describe different things only if the difference is minute. It become easier sometimes to now just say one word instead of two or more to describe the action: left hand wrist grab - turn to the outside {tenkan} - turn to the inside {tenkai}.
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