Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-05-2009, 11:47 PM   #1
jamie yugawa
 
jamie yugawa's Avatar
Dojo: Sapporo
Location: Sapporo, hokkaido
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 186
Japan
Offline
Smile Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Hows that for a dramatic title !!! A couple of months ago I was being Uke for my Sensei (Katatetori if i remember ) and i remember as soon as i touched her hand I had a feeling of Defeat or i should have never touched her hand , a sense of failing before even starting . I questioned my sensei ( 6th dan ) and they said it was part of training to feel the intentions or ki of Nage with more experience. I previously heard a story from my uncle who took uke from O sensei when he was a child during his 1961 vist to the big island , he stated when he grabbed him it felt like a force field around O sensei's hand or something that was letting him know he wasn't supposed to be grabbing O sensei.
I thought this was interesting ,and would like to know others experience with this . could this be a psychological, physiological, or Ki training ?( I am just 3rd kyu and have not Practiced with a lot of high ranking Aikidoka ) Please Comment .
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2009, 10:19 AM   #2
Janet Rosen
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,339
Offline
Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Look for George Ledyard's blog posting about "intent" :
http://aikieast.blogspot.com/2009/06...iving-and.html

Last edited by Janet Rosen : 08-06-2009 at 10:22 AM. Reason: found the link!

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2009, 10:46 PM   #3
jamie yugawa
 
jamie yugawa's Avatar
Dojo: Sapporo
Location: Sapporo, hokkaido
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 186
Japan
Offline
Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

That article on "intent" was amazing !! I was talking to an elder Yudansha and he stated that this awareness was essential to life during the samurai era ,knowing others intent towards you meant to live or die . Has anyone else felt this awareness during training ? Is there other ways to help develop this awareness?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 04:40 AM   #4
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Location: Florida Gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,902
United_States
Offline
Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Agreed, intent.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 06:37 AM   #5
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,615
United_States
Offline
Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Quote:
Jamie Yugawa wrote: View Post
Has anyone else felt this awareness during training ?
Yes, but no where near as often as I like. And because I still have little to no control over it, what usually happens is my partner suddenly finds the need for a really frakin HUGE ukemi. After a few times getting the wits scared out of me due to the results, I try even on those rare "good" nights to tone it down.

Quote:
Is there other ways to help develop this awareness?
Uh, Yeah...go into North Philly (or probably hundreds of other places on earth) with someone you love, and wait for the thugs to come out. That also did it for me...

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 11:22 AM   #6
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,944
United_States
Offline
Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Quote:
Jamie Yugawa wrote: View Post
That article on "intent" was amazing !! I was talking to an elder Yudansha and he stated that this awareness was essential to life during the samurai era ,knowing others intent towards you meant to live or die . Has anyone else felt this awareness during training ? Is there other ways to help develop this awareness?
i must be "intent deaf". when i uked (can you use uke as a verb?) for Ledyard sensei, i kept charging in and tried to kill him. i didn't feel a thing. Ledyard sensei said i suffered from Low Self-Preservation Syndrome or Self-Preservation Deficit or something along that line. really, you can only focus on one thing at a time. if you attack a person, why bother focus on defense and ukemi and awareness and stuffs like that. you should just push aside the awareness that he's larger than you, more skill than you, a whole lot quicker than you. awareness does nothing for you whatsoever but slowing you down from charging in at full speed.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 12:16 PM   #7
jamie yugawa
 
jamie yugawa's Avatar
Dojo: Sapporo
Location: Sapporo, hokkaido
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 186
Japan
Offline
Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

When i was taking uke for my Sensei i wasnt really focusing on defence as much as attacking ,i guess what threw me for a loop was i felt my senseis "intent" and thats what distracted me . A sence of failure or hopelessness for my "intent" on my attack which led me to be defeated . It was pretty amazing the combination of technique , timing , and intent . It has let me to believe that i should think deeper about training and where i need to focus on . As for the training in the seedy parts of town for awareness , hilos pretty safe. LOL
Could "intent" be also a form of atemi? a distraction or "attack" to complete a technique . This higher level of training is facinating .
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 06:10 PM   #8
Rob Watson
Location: CA
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 697
United_States
Offline
Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
SNIP
Low Self-Preservation Syndrome
SNIP
Sweet! Funny thing is when Ledyard sensei talks about his experience in Araki ryu in which many kata ended in aiuchi (mutual kill) the purpose was to exactly enhance LSPS because the intent is to concentrate on making a good attack - defeat the enemy before they get a chance to do anything.

The other thing I recall is Okamoto sensei (Ropokai) saying that aiki was a conditioned response on the part of uke. Maybe that is a bad translation of what he mean't but it begs the question ... how much can uke be affected by intent if he can't 'feel' it?

I guess one should ask Mr. Truong if your affliction of LSPS prevented you from landing a decent attack on Mr. Ledyard?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2009, 03:27 AM   #9
Maarten De Queecker
Dojo: Aikikai Gent, Brugse Aikido Vereniging
Location: Bruges
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 139
Belgium
Offline
Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
i must be "intent deaf". when i uked (can you use uke as a verb?) for Ledyard sensei, i kept charging in and tried to kill him. i didn't feel a thing. Ledyard sensei said i suffered from Low Self-Preservation Syndrome or Self-Preservation Deficit or something along that line. really, you can only focus on one thing at a time. if you attack a person, why bother focus on defense and ukemi and awareness and stuffs like that. you should just push aside the awareness that he's larger than you, more skill than you, a whole lot quicker than you. awareness does nothing for you whatsoever but slowing you down from charging in at full speed.
I'm pretty intent-deaf too. Partly because I believe that my instructors are friendly people who will do their best not to hurt me, and party because charging in (and flying back out) at full speed is incredibly fun
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2009, 01:35 PM   #10
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,944
United_States
Offline
Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
The other thing I recall is Okamoto sensei (Ropokai) saying that aiki was a conditioned response on the part of uke. Maybe that is a bad translation of what he mean't but it begs the question ... how much can uke be affected by intent if he can't 'feel' it?

I guess one should ask Mr. Truong if your affliction of LSPS prevented you from landing a decent attack on Mr. Ledyard?
i wondered about that myself. if an attacker is high on LSD or met or other drugs, would they even notice the intent or even reacts at all? and would aiki stuffs still work?

with my affliction of LSPS, which i believed there might be a cure, i was able to graze Ledyard sensei's middle; however, i was aiming for his head. or was that his middle hit me?
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 09:57 AM   #11
Lyle Bogin
Dojo: Shin Budo Kai
Location: Manhattan
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 588
United_States
Offline
Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Uh, Yeah...go into North Philly (or probably hundreds of other places on earth) with someone you love, and wait for the thugs to come out. That also did it for me...

Best,
Ron
LOL My father inherited a supermarket at 25th and Ridge in North Philly. Worked there until the holds ups got too frequent. I remember sitting in the office/cage while he would do receipts, and karate smashing delivery boxes.

Guess it hasn't changed much.

"The martial arts progress from the complex to the simple."
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 10:06 AM   #12
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,615
United_States
Offline
Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Hey Lyle, overall, not much. But some areas have been rebuilt and have some fairly good housing...they used some fairly strict income requirements for access to them, so those areas/blocks are looking better. And they picked up a lot of the burned out cars strewn about when Street was still mayor.

I don't go down there anymore since my great aunt died. I really miss her, but not North Philly...

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 14 Peter Goldsbury Columns 38 07-31-2009 11:19 PM
What I Think "Ki" Is mraikido Spiritual 14 08-12-2008 12:05 PM
Poll: Is "ki" as used in aikido a metaphor for you? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 19 11-25-2006 08:42 AM
Jimmy Sorrentino in West Reading, PA AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 06-09-2004 02:37 PM
Want to feel "KI"? chadsieger General 1 01-14-2003 02:49 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:49 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate