Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-25-2006, 06:21 PM   #1
Roman Kremianski
Dojo: Toronto Aikikai
Location: Toronto, Canada
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 404
Canada
Offline
Hand sizes in Aikido

Now I know everyone preaches Aikido is all about unbalancement and using your whole body and all of that good stuff, but what about when you simply can't grip someone's hand because they're significantly larger then you?

Nikyo is virtually impossible to do as I can't even wrap my hand around for the lock on some people, and all they have to do is give some light resistance to slip out of my hold.

Same with sanyko. Especially when they make a fist, it's like trying to put a sankyo on a bowling ball.

Any insight on this would be great.

-Confused as hell
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2006, 07:38 PM   #2
Mike Hamer
 
Mike Hamer's Avatar
Dojo: Shinki Rengo, Mt. Pleasant MI
Location: Alma, MI
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 244
United_States
Offline
Re: Hand sizes in Aikido

Hmmm perhaps some super glue would help?

Seriously though? I have no idea.

To speak ill of anything is against the nature of Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2006, 07:48 PM   #3
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,337
Offline
Re: Hand sizes in Aikido

you grasp what you CAN. i have had instructors show me how to apply, say, sankyo via grasping uke's pinkie--just as I show people how to apply kotegaishe to my forearm because of my bad wrist--what we call techniques are applied principles of body movement so work in a variety of ways. I bet that your instructor will always be able to show you a variant that will work for you.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2006, 09:19 PM   #4
Karen Wolek
Dojo: Kingston Aikido
Location: New York
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 322
United_States
Offline
Re: Hand sizes in Aikido

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote:
I bet that your instructor will always be able to show you a variant that will work for you.
Yup. Ask your sensei. Mine is always willing to show us a variation or two.

Karen
"Try not. Do...or do not. There is no try." - Master Yoda
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2006, 11:11 PM   #5
mickeygelum
 
mickeygelum's Avatar
Dojo: Warren Budokan, Ohio USA
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 502
United_States
Offline
Re: Hand sizes in Aikido

No strength equals broken balance.....even in a monotone training environment...sankyo is a sword movement, treated it as such and it will be much more effective...

Miku-san
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2006, 11:18 PM   #6
Roman Kremianski
Dojo: Toronto Aikikai
Location: Toronto, Canada
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 404
Canada
Offline
Re: Hand sizes in Aikido

Yes I know it's a sword movment. Only difference is that the sword handle is thin enough enough for me to actually grasp it.

I'll ask my sensei though. Ofcourse he has bear paws, so I am hoping he'll come up with something that actually works.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2006, 12:46 AM   #7
Leiv
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 9
Uruguay
Offline
Re: Hand sizes in Aikido

I am not experienced enough to give advice on how to over come your trouble but I can tell you that it is not impossible. I say this because my wife, who has tiny little hands, can 2,3,4 kyo my can all over the living room when I misbehave.
Sensei knows best.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2006, 02:06 AM   #8
Brad Pruitt
Dojo: High Desert Aikido
Location: Bend, Oregon
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 49
United_States
Offline
Re: Hand sizes in Aikido

Quote:
I am not experienced enough to give advice on how to over come your trouble but I can tell you that it is not impossible. I say this because my wife, who has tiny little hands, can 2,3,4 kyo my can all over the living room when I misbehave.
Sensei knows best.
It's tempting but I won't go there. It sure is tempting though.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2006, 04:07 PM   #9
klimber
Dojo: Shin Ryu Aikido
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 7
United_States
Offline
Re: Hand sizes in Aikido

I know this is kinnda irrelevent...but why not. In climbing, people's hands are often larger than normal due to ...well...climbing. Anyway this thing called the Ape Index gives you a number based in how much bigger your hand is than what is the norm for such a person. So people with a big number have big (apey - dont know if thats a word) hands. And smalller is more normal, although the apier the better in climbing...maybe aikido too .

Anyway...so yeah thats my random thought for this thread. Thanks for the inspiration.

johnathon
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2006, 07:12 PM   #10
deepsoup
Dojo: Sheffield Shodokan Dojo
Location: Sheffield, UK
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 524
Offline
Re: Hand sizes in Aikido

Quote:
Johnathon Haase wrote:
Anyway this thing called the Ape Index gives you a number based in how much bigger your hand is than what is the norm for such a person
Not true. When climbers talk about "ape index" they're referring to how long a person's arms are. The average person's span from hand to hand is the same as their height. (See Leonardo Da Vinci's 'Vitruvian Man') A person's ape index is the difference, in inches, between their armspan and their height. If you have a positive ape index, it means you have longer than average arms relative to your height.

And big hands are not necessarily an advantage for climbing - what you gain on the fist-jams and slopers you lose on the finger jams and the crimps.

[/hijack]
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2006, 08:00 PM   #11
Mary Turner
Dojo: Joshinkan
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 56
United_States
Offline
Ai symbol Re: Hand sizes in Aikido

Roman,
my hands are much smaller than my uke's in my school. I got advice handed down from Richard Price Sensei of Kure Beach, who teaches a class for female law enforcement. Just as Janet says, you can grab the last two fingers, you can grab the base of the thumb "the drumstick" for kote gaeshi, etc. There are lots of adjustments you can make for differences in size.

Good luck!
Mary
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2006, 08:12 PM   #12
klimber
Dojo: Shin Ryu Aikido
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 7
United_States
Offline
Re: Hand sizes in Aikido

Sean,
Ok that clears a lot up . Its been a while since I've chatted about that. Anyway....I wasnt too far off, right . And about the hand size...slopers always seem to give me a pain...but at the same time i find crimps easier than dudes who go for the slopes....so i guess its a trade.
Anywho...srry bout the mix up and thanks for the clear up.

Johnathon
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2006, 09:25 PM   #13
crbateman
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
crbateman's Avatar
Location: Orlando, FL
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,498
Offline
Re: Hand sizes in Aikido

Grab 'em by the nose hairs... They'll go where you want 'em...
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2006, 08:22 AM   #14
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Hand sizes in Aikido

Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote:
Grab 'em by the nose hairs... They'll go where you want 'em...
that just made my eyes water

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2006, 06:22 PM   #15
seank
Location: Victoria
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 132
Australia
Offline
Re: Hand sizes in Aikido

Hi Roman,
Two things to think about:
  1. You have two hands
  2. Grabbing effectively stops a technique

With sankyo, try using both hands, but remember that unbalancing will have a big impact on putting uke in a vulnerable position.

Whilst trying nikkyo think about guiding uke first then taking the grip; if you try to grip too early the technique stops and it makes it nearly impossible to find the right path.

My wife has very small hands compared to mine but through timing is able to perform very effective nikkyo and sankyo. Timing and balance seem to make the difference here; because she has smaller hands I believe she concentrates more on overcoming the difference by practicing timing.

With regard to uke forming a fist, ask them not to. Its not really a reasonable way to train if uke knows what the technique is and has time to prepare a response like forming a fist to stop nikkyo.

Unless these people are prepared to train with full-contact atemi and the likes (wherein they would respond naturally instead of preemptively) they are only cheating you out of the opportunity to learn.

Having witnessed an accidental atemi contact at full speed about three weeks ago, it was amazing (and a reaffirmation) to see ukes reaction. There was no thinking of avoiding the technique or forming fists, or doing other things to stop nage. The person took about three steps backwards and just stood on the spot totally stunned. Nage in this instance was also stunned because they hadn't intended the atemi to actually hit, but you get the point
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2006, 11:07 PM   #16
Jess McDonald
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 86
United_States
Offline
Re: Hand sizes in Aikido

What the hell is a crimp? a sloper/ What were the other ones... toe jam and ... something er other...?? whats going on here!! what are we talking about!!! climbing right?? sweet

Oh yeah about the whole small hand thing I'll go with the suggestion of tweaking out a thumb cause that's just cool
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2006, 11:22 AM   #17
odudog
Dojo: Dale City Aikikai
Location: VA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 393
Offline
Re: Hand sizes in Aikido

If you have small hands, then always use both of them when doing sankyo. Also, if uke makes a fist, then just grab the fist with both hands and twist as normal. You are applying the lock to the wrist, not the hand. Remember to use your hips. Your hips are much stronger than the uke's fist so your hips will win eventually.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2006, 06:25 PM   #18
Marc Randolph
Dojo: Jita Kyoei
Location: Dallas, TX
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 14
United_States
Offline
Re: Hand sizes in Aikido

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote:
Yes I know it's a sword movment. Only difference is that the sword handle is thin enough enough for me to actually grasp it. [...]
Yes, but how does the sword do sankyo, when it has no hands at all with which to grasp uke?

My interpretation of what I've been taught: A little off-balance results in uke pushing back for a little bit of support. As uke starts to recover (wait for uke!), he tends to use tori (or the sword) for a slight bit of support. If that support (tori) continues moving at the same rate as uke, uke will be in a constant state of off-balance and will continue pushing, looking for support. Tori simply leads uke in this manner, every so slightly, through the whole technique. Note that if tori moves too quickly, or with too much energy, or not enough energy, uke will likely find a way to recover. I've seen this work on most aikido techniques.

If someone has a better explaination of this process, please feel free...

Marc
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aikido in Amsterdam, Terry Lax style... tiyler_durden General 11 11-03-2008 09:31 AM
Mixing Aikido with other martial arts Guilty Spark General 146 05-04-2008 11:10 AM
Women and Everybody Else in Aikido George S. Ledyard Teaching 113 03-16-2008 08:27 PM
Aikido: Its Spirit and Technique TAnderson General 0 02-27-2007 08:50 AM
Omoto-kyo Theology senshincenter Spiritual 77 12-04-2005 10:50 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:02 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2017 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2017 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate