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Old 10-12-2009, 01:34 AM   #1
Michael Varin
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Ron Paul on President Obama's Nobel Peace Prize

Behold the most honorable American politician in history.

This kind of wisdom and intelligence is rare, but coming from a politician it is almost shocking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbcDk-bNoc8

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 10-12-2009, 08:31 AM   #2
Don_Modesto
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Re: President Obama's Nobel Peace Prize

Paul sounds good, but all the white supremacist stuff makes me queasy. Google it, and you'll come up with tons, this, e.g.: http://www.alternet.org/blogs/election08/71834/

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:29 PM   #3
David Orange
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Re: President Obama's Nobel Peace Prize

Quote:
Don J. Modesto wrote: View Post
Paul sounds good, but all the white supremacist stuff makes me queasy. Google it, and you'll come up with tons, this, e.g.: http://www.alternet.org/blogs/election08/71834/
Excellent point, Don.

It really applies to most of Obama's detractor's very well.

Though Obama, himself, says that racism is not the prime motivation of his attackers, there can be no question that it is a strong vein that runs through the whole hysterical movement.

The general scent reminds me always of the attitudes I saw in a lot of people around Birmingham from the Whites Only days, through the lunch-counter sit-ins, the riots in front of the city hall, fire-hosing the little children and so on through the current day when a major factor keeping our mass transit down is that so many white people refuse to ride a bus with black people. That's just pure fact and it's easy to find well documented on local internet message boards. In the old days, maybe ten percent of people in these parts would admit to literally "hating" black people and you could tell there was no joking behind it. There were plenty of people ready and willing to kill black people just for being black. Around the time of the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church, a white Eagle scout shot a young black boy off a bicycle and killed him. As I recall, the victim was riding on the handlebars and his brother was pedalling when these boys in a car drove by and the Eagle scout just shot at them and killed the younger one. That was an Eagle scout--a stand-out in the community. So what were the "lower mentalities" like?

Nowadays, maybe only 1% of people will admit to "hating" blacks. The rest will tell you straight out, "I don't hate (blacks). I'm just not gonna ride the bus with them." But put them on an anonymous message board and man, the hate flows.

And that's the predominant attitude I detect in those who rant against Obama. They tell you they don't hate him because he's black but you keep pulling up the roots and you'll find Bull Connor's mind at the end. The claim that people voted for Obama "only because he's black" is a great example of that. Attacking the democrats comes mostly from people who view the democratic party as being mostly black people. When Rush Limbaugh first became popular, his big line was "personal responsibility" which just alluded to the idea that "white people depend on themselves, while black people depend on the government." And that's the line he's played up all these years and is still playing up. He just rearranges the furniture from time to time, but his house might as well have an Aryan Nations flag above it.

This kind of hidden agenda needs to be exposed each time people try to run that old racist parade wherever they run it.

Thanks.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:59 AM   #4
Michael Varin
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Re: Ron Paul on President Obama's Nobel Peace Prize

Quote:
David Orange wrote:
Quote:
Don J. Modesto wrote:
Paul sounds good, but all the white supremacist stuff makes me queasy. Google it, and you'll come up with tons, this, e.g.: http://www.alternet.org/blogs/election08/71834/
Excellent point, Don.
Actually, it wasn't.

That was a poorly researched article from a highly unreliable source.

Besides, to say that an idea is bad if bad people support it doesn't get us anywhere. Ideas should stand or fall on their own merits.

Quote:
David Orange wrote:
It really applies to most of Obama's detractor's very well.

Though Obama, himself, says that racism is not the prime motivation of his attackers, there can be no question that it is a strong vein that runs through the whole hysterical movement.
You will really have to explain your position better, David.

It makes me think you didn't even watch the video. Ron Paul is anything but hysterical. He has demonstrated consistency and rational judgment for many years. The point he was making in the video went far beyond President Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize. . . That's why I posted it.

Are you really suggesting that "most" people who do not agree with President Obama's policies or philosophy are racist?

Please clarify.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:31 AM   #5
lbb
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Re: Ron Paul on President Obama's Nobel Peace Prize

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
Besides, to say that an idea is bad if bad people support it doesn't get us anywhere. Ideas should stand or fall on their own merits.
Nice in theory. In reality, you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:29 AM   #6
Marc Abrams
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Re: Ron Paul on President Obama's Nobel Peace Prize

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
Behold the most honorable American politician in history.

This kind of wisdom and intelligence is rare, but coming from a politician it is almost shocking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbcDk-bNoc8
The most honorable American politician in history ?

We all can acknowledge that we live in an interconnected, international society, yet there are those who suppose that we can somehow not work on an international scale in a cooperative manner. I respect Mr. Paul's sincerity of beliefs, but I simply look at them as outdated and totally impractical in today's society.

I think that most level-headed people (and that excludes those that seem to think that President Obama can do no wrong and those that think that President Obama can do no right) that the Nobel Peace Prize was a "knee-jerk" reaction to the positive (my opinion) position taken in which America is once again wanting to be a partner with other countries in the world in addressing world issues. The Bush administration took the approach of choosing a direction, regardless of ally opinions. If they could not bully an alliance, then they found ways of punishing those countries and organizations that did not tag along as grossly unequal partners.

Seen from this perspective, I look at this award as having diminished the importance of awarding this great honor to those who had already made real changes that have positively impacted our world. This award does point out CLEARLY to any American with an open-mind and world view how important it is to the rest of the countries in this world, that we be seen as a true partner, rather than a petty bully.

Our country is hurting in many areas. People who seem to believe that working to fix our country without having to work in a genuinely cooperative manner with other countries (like the last administration) have their heads stuck in the past and this type of ignorance will not help us to try and right problems that have both international ramifications and internationally-based solutions.

Marc Abrams
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Old 10-13-2009, 04:18 PM   #7
Michael Varin
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Re: Ron Paul on President Obama's Nobel Peace Prize

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote:
The most honorable American politician in history ?
You know, Marc, making that statement isn't really saying much!

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote:
We all can acknowledge that we live in an interconnected, international society, yet there are those who suppose that we can somehow not work on an international scale in a cooperative manner. I respect Mr. Paul's sincerity of beliefs, but I simply look at them as outdated and totally impractical in today's society.
This statement reflects a common and very significant misunderstanding of Dr. Paul's foreign policy. He sees the world as interconnected and that is precisely why he wants to work in a truly "cooperative manner." Accomplishing this by opening lines of trade, travel, and information, not by imposing our will, or the will of the UN, in what he likes to call nation building.

When people use the word "cooperative" in the context in which you used it, they often mean "by government decree," which is not cooperative. It is by force.

I find that the majority of modern liberals and conservatives actually like the power of big government. They just want their people in wielding it. They view the people in charge as the problem. Some of us, on the other hand, believe that the power itself is the problem. That's a concept that will never become outdated.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 10-13-2009, 05:16 PM   #8
Marc Abrams
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Re: Ron Paul on President Obama's Nobel Peace Prize

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
You know, Marc, making that statement isn't really saying much!

This statement reflects a common and very significant misunderstanding of Dr. Paul's foreign policy. He sees the world as interconnected and that is precisely why he wants to work in a truly "cooperative manner." Accomplishing this by opening lines of trade, travel, and information, not by imposing our will, or the will of the UN, in what he likes to call nation building.

When people use the word "cooperative" in the context in which you used it, they often mean "by government decree," which is not cooperative. It is by force.

I find that the majority of modern liberals and conservatives actually like the power of big government. They just want their people in wielding it. They view the people in charge as the problem. Some of us, on the other hand, believe that the power itself is the problem. That's a concept that will never become outdated.
Michael:

Your perception of Dr. Paul as the most honorable politician is simply without foundation, so my comment did say it all.

I am well read on your favorite politician's theories, philosophies, ideas... I find them cleverly worded ways to get around having to rely on a functional and strong government. Trade, business,.... is simply no way to work on a government level. It is replacing businesses for government. If you think that big government is bad, then just look at how some huge, international conglomerate businesses have given the shaft to many people in many countries, all in the name of profit.

This may seem alien to you, but in absence of no governments, governments should be the entities that do negotiate with one another. I would frankly want a strong government rather than stronger businesses. History has shown us that when businesses are stronger than the countries that they operate in, bad things happen to the citizens.

Marc Abrams
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Old 10-13-2009, 11:08 PM   #9
Buck
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Re: Ron Paul on President Obama's Nobel Peace Prize

Do you know what bother's me the most about the YouTube clip.....is that Ron Paul still has wood paneling that was popular decades ago, and is still in prime condition. You might say, well it's retro, it's coming back in to vague, it might. But, that doesn't change anything, it still bother's me. Why isn't HGTV's popular show Dream House stepping up on Ron Paul's crib?
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:50 AM   #10
Michael Varin
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Re: Ron Paul on President Obama's Nobel Peace Prize

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote:
Your perception of Dr. Paul as the most honorable politician is simply without foundation, so my comment did say it all.
Marc,

Your lack of ability to detect humor never ceases to amaze me.

I wasn't referring to your "eek face" comment. I was joking about my own statement. Since honorable politician is an oxymoron, calling someone the most honorable isn't saying much. Get it?

But will we are on the point, it is not without foundation. One of the definitions of honor is "principled uprightness of character; personal integrity." I am not aware of many politicians who fit the bill.
Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote:
I am well read on your favorite politician's theories, philosophies, ideas... I find them cleverly worded ways to get around having to rely on a functional and strong government. Trade, business,.... is simply no way to work on a government level. It is replacing businesses for government. If you think that big government is bad, then just look at how some huge, international conglomerate businesses have given the shaft to many people in many countries, all in the name of profit.
Since you are well read on the matter, then you won't mind elucidating on how exactly those huge corporations gained and hold on to their power.
Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote:
This may seem alien to you, but in absence of no governments, governments should be the entities that do negotiate with one another. I would frankly want a strong government rather than stronger businesses. History has shown us that when businesses are stronger than the countries that they operate in, bad things happen to the citizens.
Why would it seem alien to me? I have never lived in a world with no governments!

History has also shown us that when governments have no limitations on their power, bad things happen to the citizens.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:57 AM   #11
Marc Abrams
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Re: Ron Paul on President Obama's Nobel Peace Prize

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
Marc,

Your lack of ability to detect humor never ceases to amaze me.

I wasn't referring to your "eek face" comment. I was joking about my own statement. Since honorable politician is an oxymoron, calling someone the most honorable isn't saying much. Get it?

But will we are on the point, it is not without foundation. One of the definitions of honor is "principled uprightness of character; personal integrity." I am not aware of many politicians who fit the bill.

Since you are well read on the matter, then you won't mind elucidating on how exactly those huge corporations gained and hold on to their power.

Why would it seem alien to me? I have never lived in a world with no governments!

History has also shown us that when governments have no limitations on their power, bad things happen to the citizens.
Gee Mikee,

I guess that I simply am not as smart and witty as you...

Since you are so much smarter and wiser than me, I will not try and bore you with my elicudating (wow, what a word!). I guess that you know about the Banana Republics, you are aware of Nigeria .... so I will leave it at that.

I wonder if you would like to relocate to Nigeria so that you can compare a country that is essentially being run by major oil interests and their weak, corrupt government lackeys, to living in the United States, where we have a BIG, BAD government.

I am sure with your amazing wit and intellect, you will do just well in Nigeria. On that note, I will leave you to cozy little world and world views.

Marc Abrams
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:12 AM   #12
lbb
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Re: Ron Paul on President Obama's Nobel Peace Prize

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
I wonder if you would like to relocate to Nigeria so that you can compare a country that is essentially being run by major oil interests and their weak, corrupt government lackeys, to living in the United States, where we have a BIG, BAD government.
I'm sorry, I just had a Halliburton moment. I'm very confused now.
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:28 AM   #13
Marc Abrams
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Re: Ron Paul on President Obama's Nobel Peace Prize

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I'm sorry, I just had a Halliburton moment. I'm very confused now.
Mary:

It is pretty scary how far down the wrong road the last administration took us. First there was "Tricky Dickey" and now "Evil Dickey" who made quite a large sum of money allowing Halliburton to run a muck.

Our country has a long way to go to reel back in the ridiculous influence that big business now has on our country. Frankly, I am not that hopeful. Maybe, just maybe the Palin-Cheney ticket could help

Marc Abrams
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Old 10-15-2009, 12:37 AM   #14
rroeserr
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Re: President Obama's Nobel Peace Prize

Quote:
Don J. Modesto wrote: View Post
Paul sounds good, but all the white supremacist stuff makes me queasy. Google it, and you'll come up with tons, this, e.g.: http://www.alternet.org/blogs/election08/71834/
There's a link at the body of the page...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/27/pa...rrex.html?_r=1

A post in The Medium blog that appeared on Monday about the Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul and his purported adoption by white supremacist and neo-Nazi groups contained several errors. Stormfront, which describes itself as a "white nationalist" Internet community, did not give money to Ron Paul's presidential campaign; according to Jesse Benton, a spokesman for Paul's campaign, it was Don Black, the founder of Stormfront, who donated $500 to Paul. The original post also repeated a string of assertions by Bill White, the commander of the American National Socialist Workers Party, including the allegation that Paul meets regularly "with members of the Stormfront set, American Renaissance, the Institute for Historic Review and others" at a restaurant in Arlington, Va. Paul never attended these dinners, according to Benton, who also says that Paul has never knowingly met Bill White. Norman Singleton, a congressional aide in Paul's office, says that he met Bill White at a dinner gathering of conservatives several years ago, after which Singleton expressed his indignation at the views espoused by White to the organizer of the dinner. The original post should not have been published with these unverified assertions and without any response from Paul.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:07 PM   #15
Lorien Lowe
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Re: Ron Paul on President Obama's Nobel Peace Prize

Fwiw, the antiwar movement is not as dead as Paul claims; it's just not getting a lot of media attention.
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