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08-14-2003, 04:16 AM
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#1
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Location: South West UK
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 216
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Jujutsu styles in Aikido.
Would it be fair to say these 3 styles affected Aikido the most:
Daito Ryu
Kito Ryu
Shinkage Ryu (swordsmanship)
If not, what others would you add or take away?
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"Minimum Effort, Maximum Effciency."
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08-14-2003, 04:55 AM
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#2
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Dojo: Lunds Aikidoklubb
Location: Lund, Sweden
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 273
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I would say most influence were given by: Takeda Sokaku and Deguchi Onisaburo.
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Jakob Blomquist
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08-14-2003, 08:36 AM
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#3
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Location: Florida Gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,902
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IMHO, I would have to vote for Daito-ryu for the physical techniques (though your can see similiarities in any Aiki-jujitsu style) and Omoto for the philosophical.
Where Aikido come from is important, so is where it is and where it is going. These are directed by our individual daily practice.
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Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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08-14-2003, 08:48 AM
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#4
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Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,615
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Personally, I would remove kito ryu and shinkage ryu...I agree that Omoto kyo should be added.
Ron
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Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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08-14-2003, 08:48 AM
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#5
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Dojo: Budoshingikan
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 179
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Hey Chris,
I would say the most influential of the 3 arts you mentionned that affected aikido would be Daito Ryu. As a mater of fact, I watched Kondo sensei's Daito Ryu DVD last night with my sensei and you can see where the influence came from in the techniques. After watching, I came to the conclusion that Daito Ryu did play a big part in Ueshiba's aikido, but Ueshiba also removed and added things to develop what is now aikido. I recommend this DVD to any aikidoka that is curious about the history of Daito Ryu and its history.
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Eric Joyce
Otake Han Doshin Ryu Jujutsu
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08-14-2003, 09:28 AM
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#6
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Dojo: Emerson's Martial Arts
Location: Denver, Co
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 97
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Is Daito pronounced dieto or dayto?
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08-14-2003, 09:41 AM
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#7
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 6,049
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Quote:
Chad Emerson (C. Emerson) wrote:
Is Daito pronounced dieto or dayto?
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"Dai" is basically the same as the English word "die" and "to" rhymes with "dough."
-- Jun
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08-14-2003, 11:09 AM
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#8
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Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,267
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Re: Jujutsu styles in Aikido.
Quote:
Chris Gee (Kensai) wrote:
Would it be fair to say these 3 styles affected Aikido the most:
Daito Ryu
Kito Ryu
Shinkage Ryu (swordsmanship)
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Daito Ryu--definately. Before 1942, Osensei issued DR certificates. Evidently, his son bent over backwards to erase this history--photo retouching and everything.
Kito Ryu--one of Judo's influences; not associated with aikido.
Shinkage Ryu--Some say so; Osensei studied some, I believe, but for a very short time.
Ono-ha Itto Ryu--people often point out the similarity between some of Saito's KUMITACHI and OIR's kata.
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08-14-2003, 11:24 AM
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#9
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 346
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Out of curiosity; in K. Ueshibas account of the original encounter between M.U. and S.T. he mentions that Morihei was made aware of Sokaku after having beat a high ranked Sumo wrestler who confused him with Mr T.
The account says that O Sensei was 30 at that time; if he was an able fighter at that time is it inconceivable that he had prior training in other arts?
not trying to imply that these are major technical influences in Aikido; was Morihei at 30 a bruiser, a strong man with no skill?
Last edited by Alfonso : 08-14-2003 at 11:28 AM.
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Alfonso Adriasola
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08-14-2003, 11:29 AM
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#10
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Dojo: S&G BJJ
Location: Springboro, OH
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,132
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Re: Re: Jujutsu styles in Aikido.
Quote:
Don J. Modesto (Don_Modesto) wrote:
Ono-ha Itto Ryu--people often point out the similarity between some of Saito's KUMITACHI and OIR's kata.
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Hi Don,
IIRC it's the Kashima Shinto Ryu. The Founder's keppan is in the enrollement books of the KSR according to Meik Skoss's article in AJ. In the article Meik comments on the Iwama kumitachi #1 being identical to the KSR kumitachi #1.
FWIW,
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Greg Jennings
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08-14-2003, 11:31 AM
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#11
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Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,615
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I don't think anyone debates whether he had prior training...but sometimes *what* he had training in and in what amount is called into question. About a year or so of judo from a low level instructor. Some sumo training. Perhaps some other types of jujutsu or weapon art. Most of the accurate research from a scholarly perspective is on AikidoJournal.com.
As far as what we see in Aikido...if you are at all familiar with the styles often listed, Daito ryu, Ono Ha Itto ryu, Omoto kyo (religeon) are the things that stand out as obviously influencing the techniques and principles seen in Aikido. The other stuff? Not so much, if at all, really. 'Course, people do love to speculate...
Ron
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Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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08-14-2003, 11:33 AM
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#12
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Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,615
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Hi Gregg,
Isn't it said that Ueshiba generally watched others practise, and drew his material from what he saw? That is a good article, I should reread it.
RT
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Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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08-14-2003, 01:15 PM
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#13
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Location: Tulsa, OK
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 166
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Ono Ha Itto Ryu was the style of sword that Sokaku Takeda practiced, I believe. I don't recall ever reading anything about Ueshiba Sensei studying it, though.
Here is the Meik Skoss article:
Kashima Shinto Ryu
Chris
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08-14-2003, 02:14 PM
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#14
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Dojo: S&G BJJ
Location: Springboro, OH
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,132
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Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Hi Gregg,
Isn't it said that Ueshiba generally watched others practise, and drew his material from what he saw? That is a good article, I should reread it.
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Hi Ron,
That's what I recall from Meik's article and from other things I've read. He would watch his students practice with the KSR instructor, then as soon as the instructor left, he would jump up and begin working.
Regards,
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Greg Jennings
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08-14-2003, 04:54 PM
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#15
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Location: South West UK
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 216
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So if you had to short list the most important "Martial" Jujutsu styles in Aikido what would they be. I mean Daito looks pretty central, but its not all is it?
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"Minimum Effort, Maximum Effciency."
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08-14-2003, 06:16 PM
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#17
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Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,267
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Erratum
Quote:
Jun Akiyama (akiy) wrote:
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Thanks for the correcton Greg, and the link, Jun.
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08-14-2003, 07:51 PM
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#18
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Dojo: Seigi Dojo
Location: Jakarta
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 247
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Quote:
Would it be fair to say these 3 styles affected Aikido the most:
Daito Ryu
Kito Ryu
Shinkage Ryu (swordsmanship)
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well, definitely not Brazilian Jujitsu...
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