Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > AikiWeb System

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-10-2002, 12:01 AM   #1
AikiWeb System
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,320
Offline
AikiWeb Poll for the week of February 10, 2002:

Do you think ukemi skills and ukemi techniques are covered sufficiently at your aikido dojo?
  • I don't do aikido
  • Yes
  • No
Here are the current results.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2002, 06:10 PM   #2
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 715
Offline
If ukemi are always practised on tatami, generally from the same set of techniques, there can be no question that they are not 'sufficient'.

Having said that, they are sufficient for practice.
And it's better to have some practice rather than none.

  Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2002, 04:06 AM   #3
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
Sometimes though, people can retain bad habits in ukemi if there is not enough practise 'cos the Nage is usually concentrating on their technique too much to notice these in the uke.

For example, it is common for beginners not to use their knee when rising from a forward ukemi, but to roll up using both feet (which is maybe more comfotable, but gives a less stable rising position, should you be attacked while rising). Reverse ukemis are often done on the wrong leg during a throw as well (making it less comfortable).

Also, many people (myself included) have a tendency to break-fall rather than ukemi. Excessive use of the break-fall tends to make you feel very dizzy after a few days of practise (due to the shock of the fall). Being confident in ukemi and only breakfalling when absolutely necessary is beneficial.

To me ukemi is very important 'cos its about keeping your center.

Ian
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2002, 04:28 AM   #4
erikmenzel
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
erikmenzel's Avatar
Dojo: Koshinkai Leeuwarden
Location: Leeuwarden
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 594
Netherlands
Offline
Ukemi, the misunderstood role of Uke

I know that most people when they see the words ukemi skills and ukemi techniques immediately think of high breakfall, flipping and long distance bouncing. These are of course very nice skills to have and for a lot of people certainly help their confidence and ego on the tatami. They are however not the essence of ukemi.

What does constitute good ukemi?
Unfortunately for a lot of people, the essence of ukemi is not equal to looking good and doing high breakfalls. The essence of ukemi is being a good and safe partner.

How does being a good partner work? Well first of all there has to be a complete trust and feeling of safety between nage and uke, this means being sincere in your training and definitly no funny stunts in your training. How else can nage expect uke to be willing to give everything in training for nage to use? Still this is very difficult. Complete trust is hard to gain and easily lost.

So uke has to give everything? But how? First of all uke has to really attack. This is for a lot of people a problem, not because they dont want to, but because the have not been exposed to this part of ukemi yet. (If you are attacking, you are doing something more than just holding nage's hand, you would "in reallife" continue and do something with this hand. Besides, you are attacking the whole person, not just the hand.) This means uke's intention does not stop. Uke's attention goes forward and keeps on going forward through the entire technique.

Here we immediately arive at one of the most difficult things to do for uke, or so it seems. Uke can only give and work with what is actually happening at that point. Uke has to live in the present, no psychic trics like knowing what is going to happen are allowed. Uke is attacking and can not anticipate on something that has not happened yet!!!
But uke knows what technique is being done, a lot of people will comment. Is that true? Does uke know what is going to happen? Can uke predict the future? Does uke have any guarantee that what he thinks is going to happen, actually will happen? No, uke does not have this guarantee. So uke only has the present to work with and this means uke can only do ukemi in the present, not in the futur.

So uke is working in the present, but how. Nage will use uke's attack/intention and start some movement of his own. Uke tries to be very sensitive to this movement and follows it so closely that the thin line between nage doing it and uke doing it gets blurred, but without taking over. At this point both uke and nage are learning about the essence of the techniques they are doing.

With uke only working in the present, it means that he can not set himself up for some high breakfall in advance. Therefor uke can only do the breakfall that happens at that point, which only rarely is going to be some spectacular high breakfall.

Ukemi is hard work and should be practiced seriously. If you ever have to choose between not being uke or not being nage, I would suggest not being nage. While taking ukemi you have so many different things to learn, things you can also use when being nage.

Erik Jurrien Menzel
kokoro o makuru taisanmen ni hirake
Personal:www.kuipers-menzel.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2002, 06:43 AM   #5
Arianah
Dojo: Aikido of Norwalk
Location: CT
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 205
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by ian
For example, it is common for beginners not to use their knee when rising from a forward ukemi, but to roll up using both feet (which is maybe more comfotable, but gives a less stable rising position, should you be attacked while rising).
People think that coming up on both feet is easier?
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2002, 06:28 PM   #6
deepsoup
Dojo: Sheffield Shodokan Dojo
Location: Sheffield, UK
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 524
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by Arianah

People think that coming up on both feet is easier?
As a Shodokan bunny, with some experience of Judo, I definitely do. Both the Kodokan and the Shodokan teach it that way.

I sometimes try to do the 'one knee down' thing when I train with my local traditional style (Kai Shin Kai) dojo, but as soon as I'm actually being thrown rather than just practicing ukemi, I automatically revert to coming up on both feet, seems to be hard-wired.

Sean
x
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2002, 12:06 AM   #7
Thalib
 
Thalib's Avatar
Dojo: 合気研究会
Location: Jakarta Selatan
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 504
Indonesia
Offline
Question hmmm

Quote:
Originally posted by Arianah


People think that coming up on both feet is easier?
Not easier... it hurts less. But if you got the principle down, you need not be "coming up on both feet".

In the dojo, I was taught to get directly to a standing position. But then, when I was practicing with Ki-no-Kenkyu-Kai, it is told that I shouldn't be directly standing up.

The principle of ukemi waza is basically the same as any waza:
- Keep centered (one point - itten)
- Keep focus and readiness (zanshin)
- Keep one mind and body
- Keep safe
- If you're into it, keep the flow of Ki.

What is the point of coming on both feet if you could fall down again by a light touch.The purpose of being in a shiko position first after an ukemi waza, is to regain all the principles above, that is if it was lost during the ukemi. If one could come up on both feet while keeping the principles, than do so.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2002, 12:41 PM   #8
Greg Jennings
Dojo: S&G BJJ
Location: Springboro, OH
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,132
United_States
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by AikiWeb System
AikiWeb Poll for the week of February 10, 2002:

Do you think ukemi skills and ukemi techniques are covered sufficiently at your aikido dojo?
  • I don't do aikido
  • Yes
  • No
Here are the current results.
How many minutes of class does your dojo spend on organized ukemi drills?

How many ukemi drills can you remember off the top of your head that were practiced at your dojo in the last month?

Any drills other than front and back rolls? E.g., high falls, koshinage ukemi, cross foot rolls, "the flop", etc.

Does your dojo have explicit ukemi requirements beyond front and back rolls for _upper_ kyu grades?

More as I think of them...

Regards,

Greg Jennings
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2002, 08:23 AM   #9
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
I've done ukemi drills, striking drills, moving off centre line drills, 'technique drills'. There never seems enough time to do everything; at the end of the day I just have to accept it takes a while to get good at aikido.

My main concern as far as teaching ukemi is that they could go to any dojo and be thrown around for long periods of time without hurting themselves.

Ian
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2002, 12:18 PM   #10
cbrf4zr2
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 114
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by Greg Jennings


Does your dojo have explicit ukemi requirements beyond front and back rolls for _upper_ kyu grades?

The last kyu rank we have ukemi requirements is 3rd kyu. Yoko Ukemi. I just got to...uh...demonstrate this 2 weeks ago.

************************
...then again, that's just me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2002, 12:55 PM   #11
phoneyman
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1
Offline
K-rap. I mis-read the poll and thought it said "atemi" instead of "ukemi" and gave the wrong answer.

Anyhow, I think ukemi is covered well at my dojo as far as "receiving" is concerned.

Atemi, on the other hand, is often referred to but never practiced.

Pierre
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Women and Everybody Else in Aikido George S. Ledyard Teaching 113 03-16-2008 07:27 PM
aikido and competition ewodaj General 129 08-10-2006 10:43 AM
In the dojo, 90% of Aikido is uke John Matsushima General 32 05-25-2006 01:01 AM
Randori Seminar with George Ledyard Sensei aikibaka131 Seminars 11 10-24-2003 12:30 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:31 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2024 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate