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Old 11-02-2002, 12:23 PM   #1
Vincentharris
Dojo: Ronin Bushido Aikido
Location: Kentucky
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Ai symbol Bushido and Christianity

Hi,

This is my very first post so here it goes. I'm crazy about Aikido and I would like to learn more about the code of Bushido. I'm a Christian too and I'm wondering if I'm creating a conflict of interest. All opinions are welcome. Thanks.

Optimists consider the glass half full, Pessimists consider the glass haf empty. I consider the glass is TOO BIG.
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Old 11-02-2002, 01:18 PM   #2
aikilouis
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Bushido is the generic word for the different rules of conduct the military class of Old Time Japan had to follow. Its chief principle was to make the samurai a perfect warrior with extreme loyalty to his lord to death if necessary (and even prove it through ritual suicide).
Needless to say that some elements of Bushido are strongly against Christian (and Aikido) ethics. Fortunately the context of modern times are very different from Medieval Japan, and Bushido is out of date. So don't worry, no one lives by the Bushido anymore, and those who declare to do it actually have chosen what rules they pleased to follow in an idealized vision of the samurai era.

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Old 11-02-2002, 01:50 PM   #3
ChristianBoddum
 
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Hi Vincent !

Just keep your focus on Christ and you'll be fine,

on sundays I now have to choose between morning sermon or morning training ,so instead

of feeling it as a dilemma I focus on staying

with the Lord no matter where I am and it works out.

All the best.

yours - Chr.B.
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Old 11-02-2002, 02:08 PM   #4
ChristianBoddum
 
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Hi again !

Just curious,does your dojo have a homepage -

I've never heard of ronin Bushido Aikido before,ronin Bushido could be the name of a club,but since I don't know I am a bit puzzled,ronin and Bushido as concepts are normally not related to Aikido.

Yours - Chr.B.
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Old 11-02-2002, 03:21 PM   #5
Vincentharris
Dojo: Ronin Bushido Aikido
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sure, the website is www.roninbushido.com

Hope you enjoy it !

Btw, how long have you been training ?

Optimists consider the glass half full, Pessimists consider the glass haf empty. I consider the glass is TOO BIG.
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Old 11-02-2002, 03:36 PM   #6
ChristianBoddum
 
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Hi Vincent !

Since spring '96 so by aikido standards I'm still fairly new to it!!

yours - Chr.B.
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Old 11-02-2002, 05:41 PM   #7
Aiki Teacher
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Is Ronin Budo Hombu or non Hombu affiliated? Looked at the site and could not tell.
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Old 11-02-2002, 08:44 PM   #8
Kevin Wilbanks
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That Ronin Bushido Aikido is pretty good, but it doesn't compare to Super Turbo Shogun Aikido.
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Old 11-03-2002, 08:23 AM   #9
Vincentharris
Dojo: Ronin Bushido Aikido
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I don't know if it's Hombu or not, I think I've heard the word mentioned a time or to. To be honest, everytime that Sempai comes to class (Ron Boyd) I feel like I'm in a room with a celebrity. I'd ask him for his autograph but I know that'd be kind of stupid.

What is Super Turbo Shogun Aikido ?

Optimists consider the glass half full, Pessimists consider the glass haf empty. I consider the glass is TOO BIG.
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Old 11-03-2002, 08:28 AM   #10
Vincentharris
Dojo: Ronin Bushido Aikido
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Didn't the Hagakure change Bushido to where Samurai couldn't commit suicide anymore ? I thought I read that somewhere.

Optimists consider the glass half full, Pessimists consider the glass haf empty. I consider the glass is TOO BIG.
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Old 11-03-2002, 09:59 AM   #11
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
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Twisted religious beliefs

I probably shouldn't get into this but since I am writing this on a Sunday, I am feeling particularly sparky on this chilly November day.

First of all, too many people fail to realize that they put their faith in Jesus, or Christ, or whatever they are spending their money on to acquire a ticket to heaven without realizing they are propping up some internal turmoil in their mind, their lives, or the whatever is throwing them out of syncronization with society to find balance.

It is not a bad thing, but when it becomes the cure all for all the ills, and you stop looking, learning, and growing as a human being it becomes a drug that takes away your clarity, your embodiment to be a human being.

Realize before you can search and bring other ways of life into your little Christian bubble, you will have to come to grips with the true roots of what your religion is trying to teach you without being a sheep of some shepard who is leading you on his path, not one you have chosen for yourself.

Realizing this, you will have begun the path of a warrior, an independant human being capable of thought, decisions, and the clarity of thought will begin to guide you on your own path.

So, although I don't really condemn letting Jesus or God guide you, I do condemn those who take it as a cure all to all the problems of life. God is the universe. You are here to learn from the universe, not have the universe learn from you. Once you realize all religions are created by man, and the universe is what it is, even though it is interpreted in many different ways by man, then you will begin to think for yourself to understand the clarity it takes to understand to be a thinking warrior who is the code of Bushido, not just someone who follows the ways and actions of others who would influence you to their way of life.

I know it is a bit complicated, but the mind thinks the thoughts and the body does as it is instructed. In order to have a clear unfettered mind, you must not think of what you must do, but be able to do what must be done without complicated intricate thoughts affected by blockages of emotional turmoil.

Thought turns to deed, action, without words.

Words temper the anger of those who are not sure, but your own convictions will stop those who are not truly committed to actions.

Hence the warrior will fight if need be, but will stop violence by his presence.

That should be deep enough for now.

Get a handle on how your Christianity is the same or different from the other religions of the world, and find the strength within yourself to have these convictions without the encouragement of others. Once you do this, you will easily adapt and understand the code of bushido. Without this, it will merely be another school lesson that is heard and forgotten in the passage of time.

By the way, this is my advice from my own view and experience in finding the key to faith between my Christian education, and years of experience with searching for truth between the words spoken by Christians, and the deeds they perform in their actual lives.

Think about it, but you will have to go and find your own answers to fit your life.
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Old 11-03-2002, 10:06 AM   #12
ChristianBoddum
 
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Hi Vincent !

Kevin should have added a smilie,he was making a joke,humor doesn't always work in discussions.

But seriously there are a few things on the homepage that make me and others wonder,

the referring to aikido as an internal style

is strange - normally this applies to Tai Chi Chuan.

Your Sensei may be the real thing,but the information on lineage is kind of weak.

The information of the transition from Karate

to Aikido is unclear.

I've heard of teachers altering their Karate to something that resembles Aikido superficially because it is en vogue,so they

can keep their dojo running,thát is my concern,a wolf in sheeps clothing kind of situation.

Since you are a newbie don't talk much about this,observe and attend classes,check out all

you can especially on this site.

Aikido is a wonderful and demanding art that

we all want spread in its truest form, so let us know how it works for you.

yours - Chr.B.
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Old 11-03-2002, 05:57 PM   #13
Thomas Froman
Dojo: Ronin Bushido Aikido
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I have been a student at the Ronin Bushido Aikido Lousville Chapter for many years and would like to clear up some of the confusion. This is not a wolf in sheeps clothing situation. Sensei Boyd has studied Karate and some other martial arts before Aikido. However, He has studied Aikido under Richard Rood who studied under Ueshiba. Sensei Boyd also has studied at a dojo in Japan and has received ranking from them. I also have several good Aikido books and we do all the same things-including the 18 basic exercises and Randori. As for the name Ronin Bushido-We use Ronin to mean masterless, meaning we are individuals. Bushido is the Samurai Code-We try to live by the seven virtues of the samurai. We do practice Tai Chi to help us build our internal strength. I believe aikido is an internal style-it lot of it depends on using your ki. If you try to muscle on a lot of techniques they will not work. You instead must relax and use chi or ki-thus the ki in aikido. I don't know how long you have been training but some aikido schools concentrate more on ki than others. You may want to ask your Sensei about Ki if you haven't been exposed to it yet. Vince, as for your question about Bushido and Christianity- Sensei Boyd is also a Deacon in a Baptist Church (I didn't know this for a long time myself) and I'm sure would be glad to answer any questions you have about tying Aikido in with religion. If anybody else has any questions about our club (or anything else for that matter), let me know and I will do the best I can to answer them.
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Old 11-03-2002, 08:20 PM   #14
Pretoriano
 
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There is no conflict at all, if you know how to put everything in its place, Sr Vincent.

Give to Caessar what... give to God what...

Everything in its place.

Aikido, Bushido, Chritianity?

Learn about 5 good virgins and 5 bad virgins parábole in Bible, Mathew? thats could be related to Bushido

Any question?

Praetorian
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Old 11-03-2002, 09:00 PM   #15
Vincentharris
Dojo: Ronin Bushido Aikido
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I'd like to clear the matter up myself. I've never questioned the intentions of Sensei Boyd or anyone affiliated with the dojo. I'm pretty new to living in the WORD and I wanted to make sure that I wasn't compromising anything. When I was going to church regularly and studying another form (several years ago) I was basically ostricized until I chose to leave that dojo. I wasn't treated alot better after that so I just checked out of any church until I got married. Why haven't I brought any of my concerns to my Sensei ? Just shy I guess, I swear I feel like I'm in the room with a celebrity when he's there; like I want to ask for his autograph or something. There are plenty of other instructors there too but they don't have the time to be answering some stupid A** questions from someone who probably doesn't knwo what he's talking about. I don't like bothering them cause I'm not the only person in that dojo and osmeone probably has something much more important to ask. Sorry if I've confused anyone or stepped on any toes. I really didn't mean any disrespect. God Bless.

Optimists consider the glass half full, Pessimists consider the glass haf empty. I consider the glass is TOO BIG.
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Old 11-03-2002, 09:46 PM   #16
Kevin Wilbanks
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If your God has much to do with making you the shrinking, self-effacing character you portray yourself as, I say get a new one. May I suggest joining the order of Our Lady Of The Cowering Chihuahua?

Last edited by Kevin Wilbanks : 11-03-2002 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 11-03-2002, 11:08 PM   #17
tedehara
 
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Quote:
Vince Harris (Vincentharris) wrote:
Didn't the Hagakure change Bushido to where Samurai couldn't commit suicide anymore ? I thought I read that somewhere.
I believe you might have been reading about the elimination of junshi.
Quote:
From Budoshoshinshu:The Warrior's Primer of Daidoji Yuzan

Formerly, the custom of junshi* flourished in our land, but after its nationwide prohibition by the Bakufu in the Kanbun (1661-1663) era, its practice has ceased...pg 123

*Junshi (also called tsuifuku): the custom of committing suicide by sepuku (hara-kiri) or some other means at the death of one's lord. It was prohibited by the government in 1663. pg 127 - trans. William Scott Wilson

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
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Old 11-04-2002, 03:40 AM   #18
ChristianBoddum
 
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Hi again !

To Thomas F. : Thanks for clearing things up !

To Vincent : I know how it feels to approach

a highranking sensei,because they often are

also very much Zen-masters it feels like trying to have a conversation with a moving rock,a kind one though !

I wish you all the best !!

yours - Chr.B.
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Old 11-04-2002, 04:13 AM   #19
Dangus
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I'm probably religiously closest to the Ba'hai, who believe that basically none of the major Judeo-Christian/Islamic/etc. belief systems truly represent God, but instead, all are a facet of the giant crystal of God, so to speak. I also have a lot of Buddist influence, I think that's hard to avoid when you're a martial artist, but I think Christ and any of the awakened would have gotten along quite well. I don't see the point as making religion a barrier against things that are inherently good things, such as Aikido, which is an art based in peace and self-control. I dare say that Aikido will help make you a better Christian, in the true sense of Christianity, assuming you bother to learn the lessons it presents to you.

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares plow for those who keep their's" -Ben Franklin
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Old 11-04-2002, 07:02 AM   #20
Vincentharris
Dojo: Ronin Bushido Aikido
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I'd like to clarify this matter for the last time. I have never questioned what my dojo or anyone affiliated with it and they don't go on and on about Bushido this and Bushido that. My interest in Bushido is purely just me being nosey and trying to make sure that I'm not compromising anything on either side. I didn't know about the seven virtues, but that makes perfect sense cause now I know what those 7 wood carvings on the wall mean. I can't believe I didn't ask someone at the dojo but I don't want to sound or look like a dim bulb. I'm sure there's someone else that has something much more important to ask. I don't like to consider myself a "shrinking, self-effacing character" I'm just trying to be respectful to my Sensei and not ask him stupid questions that I'm sure he's probably answered a thousand times. If you would like a little background about my concerns with my Christianity, trust me it's a VERY long story that I would have to explain in another format. Needless to say, I had my feelings hurt in the church because I was studying another form a long time ago. Thanks for everyone's input and attention to this matter. Now I just hope it doesn't get me in trouble with anyone. God Bless you all.

Optimists consider the glass half full, Pessimists consider the glass haf empty. I consider the glass is TOO BIG.
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Old 11-04-2002, 07:56 AM   #21
tedehara
 
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Not everybody is associated with Aikikai or Hombu Dojo.


From what I've seen and heard, if you want to live a Christian life, Aikido can help you. If you want to truly study Aikido, Christianity can help you. I've known people who were very active both in Aikido and their church.

Just like there are different views of Christianity, there are different views of Aikido. The style I practice considers Aikido to be an internal art. In fact, it has incorporated some tai chi into it's exercise routine. Other people have other ideas about Aikido.

When you feel comfortable enough, you should start talking to your instructors. It's not only the Christian thing to do, but it's also a common Aikido practice.

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
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Old 11-04-2002, 08:00 AM   #22
Vincentharris
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That makes me feel better. Thanks alot.

Optimists consider the glass half full, Pessimists consider the glass haf empty. I consider the glass is TOO BIG.
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Old 11-04-2002, 09:59 AM   #23
ian
 
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Its funny - when people talk about 'internal arts' I don't think about religion - I think about developing ki flow. In my mind the internal/external is a different distinction from budo/jitsu. At the end of the day Vince, if you are looking for easy answers from outside (i.e. an easy religion to latch on to) your quest will end in misery. Best to educate yourself (religious or otherwise), but to make your own decisions based on experience. Bushido is a cruel and ruthless code for people who were constantly fighting to protect their lives. Each religion or belief system tends to fit the environment in which it develops. If there are enternal truths they don't require indoctrination from someone else.

Ian

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 11-04-2002, 10:20 AM   #24
mike lee
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it is what it is

I don't think that aikido was ever meant to contain all the answers — it was just meant to open the door.

Aikido has a lot to offer, and my life is much richer for it. Aikido is deep and infinite. It's also compatible with most mainstream religions, and, if practiced properly, those who train in aikido can become highly adaptible and tolerant, expanding the depth and breadth ot their religious convictions.

I think that of all the martial arts, aikido is one of the best choices for those that are also involved in a spiritual quest.

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Old 11-04-2002, 12:17 PM   #25
MattRice
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Hi Vince

I don't think this is a stupid question, and I think you could approach your sensei with it without fear of...well...anything. I think that Aikido and Christianity are complimentary as has been said already. Seems to me O'sensei's ideals that Aikido be an art of compassion are compatible with Christian morale beliefs.

I would like to point out that comments like
Quote:
Kevin Wilbanks wrote:
If your God has much to do with making you the shrinking, self-effacing character you portray yourself as, I say get a new one. May I suggest joining the order of Our Lady Of The Cowering Chihuahua?
are mean-spirited and are perhaps not consistent with the spirit of Christianity OR Aikido philosophy.
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