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Old 01-20-2008, 06:49 PM   #76
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Yes, sensei Ledyard. That is the book. Great stuff to know about people in this book.

By they way, we reviewed some of your videos this weekend at the Mojo.

For those who would like to get a taste of how Nancy Ann Tappe conducted her seminars, see: http://www.sdcitybeat.com/cms/story/detail/?id=429

The only person I have found that comes close to her in forecasting about people and political events is Carlos Barrios, mayan Priest of the Eagle Clan out of Guatemala.
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:01 PM   #77
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Yes, I too believe he is referring to the book "On Killing" by David Grossman. That is what came to my mind.

Absolutely, must read for those involved in martial arts IMO.

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Old 01-20-2008, 08:13 PM   #78
clwk
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
For those who would like to get a taste of how Nancy Ann Tappe conducted her seminars, see: http://www.sdcitybeat.com/cms/story/detail/?id=429

The only person I have found that comes close to her in forecasting about people and political events is Carlos Barrios, mayan Priest of the Eagle Clan out of Guatemala.
Chris, I think we've hit the point of diminishing returns in discussing strategy, motivation, action, consequence, effectiveness, etc. Thanks for sharing your perspectives. They were unexpected.

Chhi'mèd
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Old 01-20-2008, 08:37 PM   #79
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

It is my understanding that O Sensei could see auras. I heard that he allowed the aura of an attacking arm push him into irimi and that is how he could blend so well.

Did he use aura in this way. Did he use aura in other strategic ways?
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Old 01-20-2008, 11:18 PM   #80
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
It is my understanding that O Sensei could see auras. I heard that he allowed the aura of an attacking arm push him into irimi and that is how he could blend so well.

Did he use aura in this way. Did he use aura in other strategic ways?
It's one thing to talk about the intersection between the tactile and visual senses and how that intersection might relate to a skillful sensitivity. It's another thing to extend that idea into categorizing individuals based on their 'auras' (from the linked article: "There are very few blue men. And those that are are women in men's bodies. Very few of them are fathers. But those that are are mothers. Do you understand?"), making political predictions, etc. It's not that I don't think anyone should be allowed to have those ideas, but it seems like a stretch to try to tie those ideas back into a discussion of physical strategy.

I thought we were talking about whether or not it makes sense to purposely transform oneself into an 'unrecognisable monster' in order to win fights. I thought that sounded like it might be a bad idea. If I understood you correctly, you said something to the effect that this strategy was related to the diagnosed color of your 'aura' and your 'akashic records' -- and that you were worried that if you turned into Cuchulain you 'might not return'. I was ready to call it quits, although the worry sounded healthy to me. I'm still not sure whether you think the strategy of 'contorting' oneself into a 'monster' is a good idea or a bad one, but it doesn't seem like you want to talk about that. Since I don't want to talk about the 'color of auras', I thought we might be done.

However, if you can explain to me how the putative ability to sense impending strikes visually (which, actually, seems not to require a terribly-esoteric explanation) relates *in any way* to a position on whether or not attempting to tap into a state of hyper-aggression is in line with Ueshiba's approach, then I would be interested. Or you could say that I've misunderstood your position, and the idea of transforming into a frightening monster was never what you were talking about. Personally, I don't think the hyper-distortedly-aggressive strategy (even if it is militarily valid) necessarily follows from the technical and even perceptual (as you described) clues left in Ueshiba's art. It just doesn't add up to me, but that's okay. I may have misunderstood, but I thought you said earlier that someone shape-shifted themselves into a Jaguar, and that's when I started thinking, "This is too deep for me."

Chhi'mèd
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Old 01-20-2008, 11:50 PM   #81
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

I see the conversation has drifted, but on the subject of muto-dori, I found something that might interest folks.

The "inventor" of muto-dori was not Munenori, but rather his father Munetoshi. Muto-dori was essentially a "homework" assignment given to him by Kamiizumi Hidetsuna, the founder of Shinkage-ryu. Upon the successful completion of this assigment, Kamiizumi gave Munetoshi inka (menkyo kaiden). Later, Munetoshi demonstrated it to Tokugawa Ieyasu by letting Ieyasu came after him with a bokuto, and then performing muto-dori.

So, Munetoshi was pretty much an expert in this skill. However, in his retirement he wrote a collection of poems (similar to the Doka of Ueshiba). One of them runs like this:

縛者斬るに劣らぬ無刀さへ十に五つは取られぬるかな
Shibarimono kiru ni otoranu muto sae, tou ni itsutsu wa torarenuru ka na.
"Even when muto(-dori) is easier than cutting bound men,
I suppose it works about five in ten times."

And that's from someone who'd know, I guess.

Last edited by Josh Reyer : 01-20-2008 at 11:54 PM.

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
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Old 01-20-2008, 11:55 PM   #82
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

i honestly do not know when I have my mild shape shift. No, I do not turn green. One afternoon, Magyk Serbsiac(former Polish GROM) was hosting SF teams for training at Frontsight. He asked mee and Brian to demonstrate double stick scrimage during lunch.

Brian was kicking my ass. I had no pro lem with that. He had me cornered at the edge of the mats, inches away from where guys wete eating their lunch on tables.

I dropped one of my sticks when my mind lost concentration. I bent down to pick it up. Brian entered and began pounding on my back.

Without hesitation I performed a foreard ikeme tjrough his centerline. It was the only move I had to escape. I sensed I was in control and the maneuver was safe. It took out Brian's knee.

Others in the room said they saw a change in me. Brian had seen it many times. Even after the event, i have a hard time realizing any change took place.

But you are most probably a ta

not inherently understand this "yellow" experience. Less, might you understand how a person with a red aura can throw vases and minutes later act as nothing happened, or a blue aura who will win an argument no matter how illogical by throwing out phychic chaff that gives their adversary a headache. Each of these reactions to attack come from life orientation, much of which is embedded in your acadhic record. Even your insistence on grounded linear logic -quite a tan experience. It makes you the perrineal father figure who provides grounded answers for your children and students. Knowing this and a cluster of other tan traits, i can choose methods of communicating with you on your terms, thus building bridges that lead to understanding and peace if you were to feel threatened. Great stuff for aiki strategy. By the way Tappe was aikidoka.
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Old 01-21-2008, 12:10 AM   #83
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

please be patient with my mispellings, I Phones are finicky and big thumbs don't help.
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Old 01-21-2008, 12:16 AM   #84
clwk
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
But you are most probably a ta

not inherently understand this "yellow" experience. Less, might you understand how a person with a red aura can throw vases and minutes later act as nothing happened, or a blue aura who will win an argument no matter how illogical by throwing out phychic chaff that gives their adversary a headache. Each of these reactions to attack come from life orientation, much of which is embedded in your acadhic record. Even your insistence on grounded linear logic -quite a tan experience. It makes you the perrineal father figure who provides grounded answers for your children and students. Knowing this and a cluster of other tan traits, i can choose methods of communicating with you on your terms, thus building bridges that lead to understanding and peace if you were to feel threatened. Great stuff for aiki strategy. By the way Tappe was aikidoka.
Chris, I appreciate that you are goofing around in order to keep things light, but this last paragraph has shape-shifted to the point that I can't even make out a lot of the words. Our little exchange is probably entertaining some people, but it might be annoying too -- especially when it stops making sense. So on a discussion forum, yes, I favor 'grounded linear logic' -- even at the expense of my warm fuzzy reputation. I'm just trying to follow-up on the precise mindset/skillset behind what initially sounded to me like a 'strong claim'. I am sure, as you point out, that we would get along fine -- better than fine! -- if we met. I'm less interested in threatening or feeling threatened than I am in having a discussion about the *discussable* merits of certain strategies -- particularly since the proffered analysis might actually affect how someone (like myself) with a little less battle experience chooses to approach a situation. I know that makes me a square, but that's just the shape I came in, and apparently it cannot be shifted.

Chhi'mèd

ps: 'perineal' was a good one. I laughed at that. At least there's a little wiggle room there.
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Old 01-21-2008, 12:17 AM   #85
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
please be patient with my mispellings, I Phones are finicky and big thumbs don't help.
Whoops, I thought it was some kind of aiki strategy. Ai-phones you mean, I think. Well, enjoy my interpretation anyway.
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Old 01-21-2008, 01:58 AM   #86
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

if you had a hard time getting hold of my forearm, one final try in plain English with clear linear words.

I have met shape shitters. I am one since shifting begins with intent. The body follows intent and energy (no) supports it. No I do not advocate becoming a monster to achieve a win in fighting. Those are your words and your paradigm.

Trained fighters should know themselves or suffer the results of their own actions unaware of why they act. Not to study the psyche deeply was your concern, mine is a concern not to study it deeply enough. Knowing ourselves is part of environmental awareness.
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:28 AM   #87
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
if you had a hard time getting hold of my forearm, one final try in plain English with clear linear words.
Thank you. I do think that is the best way in a discussion forum.

Quote:
I have met shape shitters. I am one since shifting begins with intent. The body follows intent and energy (no) supports it. No I do not advocate becoming a monster to achieve a win in fighting. Those are your words and your paradigm.
Not mine, really. I was following up on your Cuchulain reference -- with which I was previously unfamiliar. The descriptions of 'riastrad' strike me as perhaps psychologically questionable as a strategy, so I asked follow-up questions. You are the one who brought it up and subsequently described it as something frightening (to you, please correct me if I misunderstood). Since the mythical Cuchulain killed his own son, I don't think it is completely unreasonable to investigate whether this is a paradigm one should adopt.

Quote:
Trained fighters should know themselves or suffer the results of their own actions unaware of why they act. Not to study the psyche deeply was your concern, mine is a concern not to study it deeply enough. Knowing ourselves is part of environmental awareness.
While we are on the topic of clear linear words, can you explain what you mean by your second sentence above? I am not trying to be awkward, but the total meaning of the sentence is unclear. Are you saying that the risk you wish to avoid is that of 'not studying deeply enough'? I think that is what you are saying, but in order to then make sense of the sentence I have to assume you also meant that the risk I wish to avoid is that of 'studying deeply'. That seems like an unnecessarily polarizing assertion. I have never suggested shying away from study. Indeed these questions are meant as part of an investigation I think should not be avoided. If you do mean to characterize my position as 'fear of study', can you explain how it is that experimenting with 'going ballistic' is a necessary component of 'studying aiki'? I apologize for not using the 'shape-shifting' terminology, but since the phenomenon you describe is so far from commonly-accepted it makes it a bit difficult to base a public conversation on its premises.

Chhi'mèd
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Old 01-21-2008, 10:53 AM   #88
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Strategy and the Aiki life.

I live on about 5 acres surrounded by farms. No fences and no guard dog. A hundred trees provide ample homes for wildlife. A stream runs though it and cools their throat. I fully enjoy their presence and love to learn their language.

My wife (a blue aura) wants everything to be perfect for the animals setting additional food and water out for them on the porch. I do not mind cleaning the porch for the inevitable difference in our social ways. It allows for my wife's way and the way for the animals to be themselves. This week, in sub zero weather, several feral animals are inside our home. I love learning their language and enjoy their presence. Again, I am a pretty good junior assistant matt cleaner.

Regarding martial ways, I introduce new comers to my dojo with these two comments:

(1)
"The truth in combat is different for each individual. Research your own experience, absorb what is useful, reject the useless, add what is specifically your own, using No Way as Way, having No Limitation as Limitation."

Bruce Lee

(2)
"As a trainer, I have been asked to answer people's questions about martial arts, movement and strategies. My only request is that they question my answers so that their learning can be their own".

Chris Parkerson
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Old 01-21-2008, 12:43 PM   #89
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
By they way, we reviewed some of your videos this weekend at the Mojo.
Hmm... I'm not sure what to think about folks at the "Mojo" reviewing my videos... should I be worried?

George S. Ledyard
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Old 01-21-2008, 02:22 PM   #90
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Beautiful Movement
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:21 PM   #91
Roman Kremianski
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

The Mojo? That sounds like a pub.

"Yeah, we watch Aikido videos there all the time..."
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Old 01-21-2008, 10:16 PM   #92
Ryan Sanford
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
Hmm... I'm not sure what to think about folks at the "Mojo" reviewing my videos... should I be worried?
LOL.

If I were you, I'd be pretty worried.
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Old 01-21-2008, 11:06 PM   #93
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

still on I phone unable to highlight quotes.
insincerity is quite boring. I have told no lies. I have talked to men and women about my life without fear, doubt or hesitation. This is the food I offer. You are welcome to it.

To shit on my porch with disrespect tells allot about your strategy of love and harmony. It also says allot about how ready we as a nation are to truly confront peace in a time that is most critical.

How can we hope to understand other cultures when we judge that which is outside our immediate circle so quickly. Is this not the beginning of violence? Deminish the "other" with ridicule. Then it is easy to fly over with bombs.

Two years ago I sat in the presence of the Minister of Religious Affairs from Saidu Arabia. The head Wahabi. He preached to me while his family watched. He had ccancer. He died 3 months later on the same bed he laid on when speaking to me.

I not only heard his voice, "the voice of the other" but I went further. Like the Shuar Shaman, I became him for a few minutes. We had more in common than you would think. There is hope.

I beg you folks. Be sincere. Open up to the "other". Get envilved, not with armchair polemics, but with sincere praxis. Then strategy will support love and harmony.
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Old 01-21-2008, 11:38 PM   #94
Roman Kremianski
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

You feeling okay Chris?

Last edited by Roman Kremianski : 01-21-2008 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 01-26-2008, 09:34 AM   #95
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Quote:
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I suspect that 10 people will give 10 different answers. I would like to hear what folks have to say.
Harmony.

To be calm and follow the flow.

Τὰ πάντα ῥεῖ , What Flows, Is.
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Old 01-26-2008, 01:46 PM   #96
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

harmony and love seem to come up allot.

If we harmonize with someone's movement in kata, can this also work well in finding how to unpack an issue in interpersonal relations? How about in dealing with one's own personal introspection (facing fears, doubts and other demons)?

How about in handling litigation in court as a trial lawyer or foreign policy debates as a statesman?

Where does love come into the strategy?
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Old 02-01-2008, 08:25 PM   #97
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
harmony and love seem to come up allot.

If we harmonize with someone's movement in kata, can this also work well in finding how to unpack an issue in interpersonal relations? How about in dealing with one's own personal introspection (facing fears, doubts and other demons)?

How about in handling litigation in court as a trial lawyer or foreign policy debates as a statesman?

Where does love come into the strategy?
I am not sure I 've understood what you have said.
My english is not so good
I never said love.
What i tend to believe, is , that training's goal
besides harmony in movement, tai sabaki,
and tecnique, is to free your mind of thoughts.
That is what i meant by calm.
Now the big question, is how do you make with practice,
Aikido a second nature to you.
How do you prepare your mind to shut off,
How do you make movement(your reaction), your thought.
I guess there can be many answers.
I 've thought about it and I would like your comment on my opinion.
I liked what you have said about the trial layer.
A helpful question would be, how do you deal with a stressful situation.
Well you create the a placebo situation at the dojo.
You can put all sorts of un- Aikido not-correct stuff.
Learning to face the placebo situation in the dojo,
could maybe help when facing the real one.
That could be a fight, or...in court.

The good thing about harmony, is that it has two sides.

Τὰ πάντα ῥεῖ , What Flows, Is.
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Old 02-02-2008, 03:02 PM   #98
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

You train over and over and over again, till your responses and actions become a part of you, you commit it to muscle memory to an autonomic response, where you no longer have to think about it.

Like touching a hot stove. You don't think, you simple do.

Your mind works on many different levels. It never really shuts off, but you train till you instinctively don't think about certain things any longer, you just do them. Once you are there things slow down alot, and you have time and space to think about other things that are more important!

I don't believe it is in terms of thinking so much as focus. Focus on "one point" that is, not many.

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Old 02-02-2008, 06:05 PM   #99
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

[quote=Kevin Leavitt;198482]You train over and over and over again, till your responses and actions become a part of you, you commit it to muscle memory to an autonomic response, where you no longer have to think about it.
...snip...
you instinctively don't think about certain things any longer, you just do them. Once you are there things slow down alot, and you have time and space to think about other things that are more important!
QUOTE]

You are on the money Kevin, as always. Now let's fine tune the idea and look closely at streamlining training methods.

Mosts systems in Aikido and Aikijujitsu focus on training through a curriculum of techniques. many are redundant. daito had over 4,000 techniques, hardly a wartime art. Most of the techniques were probably added during peacetime.

Who can train even 64 (Judo curriculum) techniques into muscle memory? Most Judoka/wrestlers/etc. train one or two favorite techniques and then train into muscle memory how to get the opponent into the right position to do the technique under any circumstances.

I know some Tomiki guys that can use all 18 techniques under speed and at will in Rondori.

The muscle memory is your subconscious "in basket" all your other stuff is still conscious theory that is stuck in the archives file.
I place the following principles into my "in basket" rather than techniques.

Kenematics - what I must do as a body that is in motion while attached to and contolling another body to acquire efficient dynamics; allowing gravity, momentum, centripital force, centrifugal force and friction to accomplist the task.

Geometry - where are the throwing points? I have learned 20 on the base plane (2 dimensional). I am learning 3 dimensional. Wow, the points are infinite and work by feel.

A smidgin of sports physiology - I have seven basic unstable postures I watch for. If I get one of them, it is time to take balance.

These are real keepers. I throw without much conscious thought at all. Many people have said some of my throws do not resemble Aikido. I am not sure what they mean:

1) That it is not recognizable in a traditional Aikido curriculum?
2) That the principles I am using are not Aikido?

Nevertheless, It is not so much me that throws as much as it is that the throw occurs as I identify two or three things in a given second without overcommitting to any one angle or technique.
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Old 02-02-2008, 06:07 PM   #100
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

[quote=Kevin Leavitt;198482]You train over and over and over again, till your responses and actions become a part of you, you commit it to muscle memory to an autonomic response, where you no longer have to think about it.
...snip...
you instinctively don't think about certain things any longer, you just do them. Once you are there things slow down alot, and you have time and space to think about other things that are more important!
QUOTE]

You are on the money Kevin, as always. Now let's fine tune the idea and look closely at streamlining training methods.

Mosts systems in Aikido and Aikijujitsu focus on training through a curriculum of techniques. many are redundant. daito had over 4,000 techniques, hardly a wartime art. Most of the techniques were probably added during peacetime.

Who can train even 64 (Judo curriculum) techniques into muscle memory? Most Judoka/wrestlers/etc. train one or two favorite techniques and then train into muscle memory how to get the opponent into the right position to do the technique under any circumstances.

I know some Tomiki guys that can use all 18 techniques under speed and at will in Randori.

The muscle memory is your subconscious "in basket" all your other stuff is still conscious theory that is stuck in the archives file.
I place the following principles into my "in basket" rather than techniques.

Kinematics - what I must do as a body that is in motion while attached to and contolling another body to acquire efficient dynamics; allowing gravity, momentum, centripetal force, centrifugal force and friction to acomplish the task.

Geometry - where are the throwing points? I have learned 20 on the base plane (2 dimensional). I am learning 3 dimensional. Wow, the points are infinite and work by feel.

A smidgin of sports physiology - I have seven basic unstable postures I watch for. If I get one of them, it is time to take balance.

These are real keepers. I throw without much conscious thought at all. Many people have said some of my throws do not resemble Aikido. I am not sure what they mean:

1) That it is not recognizable in a traditional Aikido curriculum?
2) That the principles I am using are not Aikido?

Nevertheless, It is not so much me that throws as much as it is that the throw occurs as I identify two or three things in a given second without overcommitting to any one angle or technique.
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