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Old 12-19-2006, 10:13 AM   #76
Ron401
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Re: Belt problem

Wash your belt ?!? Bah. I have never heard of anyone putting there belt in a washing machine...
As far as people getting "sick" from an unwashed belt that sounds a little lame to me, but thats just IMO.Train a lot and the stiffness goes away. After class I fold my belt neatly and place it on a shelf to air it out. My belt has no smell to it, and it is nice and soft and easy to tie.
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Old 12-19-2006, 10:24 AM   #77
deepsoup
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Re: Belt problem

Quote:
Ronald Shappy wrote:
Wash your belt ?!? Bah. I have never heard of anyone putting there belt in a washing machine...
Then you haven't read so many of the various "belt washing" threads on here. Mine goes in the machine once in a while, when it needs a wash. (Much less often than a gi, much more often than 'never'.)
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Old 12-19-2006, 10:30 AM   #78
Chris Li
 
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Re: Belt problem

Quote:
Ronald Shappy wrote:
Wash your belt ?!? Bah. I have never heard of anyone putting there belt in a washing machine...
As far as people getting "sick" from an unwashed belt that sounds a little lame to me, but thats just IMO.Train a lot and the stiffness goes away. After class I fold my belt neatly and place it on a shelf to air it out. My belt has no smell to it, and it is nice and soft and easy to tie.
You have now . I almost always sweat through my belt in training - if you sweat through your shirt when you go running you wash it right?

Best,

Chris

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Old 12-19-2006, 11:59 AM   #79
Basia Halliop
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Re: Belt problem

I wonder if some of the belt debate doesn't depend on what kind of gi jacket you wear -- if you wear the light karate style then it might make much more sense to think of sweating through to your belt on a daily basis, while if you wear the heavy judo kind, you might wonder a bit if people aren't overreacting (and if you wear a t-shirt underneath that...). I wash my belt now and then, but it's not really my sweat so much as dirt and 'stuff' from the mat.
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Old 12-19-2006, 12:20 PM   #80
Chris Li
 
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Re: Belt problem

Quote:
Basia Halliop wrote:
I wonder if some of the belt debate doesn't depend on what kind of gi jacket you wear -- if you wear the light karate style then it might make much more sense to think of sweating through to your belt on a daily basis, while if you wear the heavy judo kind, you might wonder a bit if people aren't overreacting (and if you wear a t-shirt underneath that...). I wash my belt now and then, but it's not really my sweat so much as dirt and 'stuff' from the mat.
Not for me - heavyweight Judo-gi, but I soak through the belt pretty much every time.

Best,

Chris

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Old 12-19-2006, 01:01 PM   #81
mriehle
 
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Re: Belt problem

Okay, so I'm one of those people who rarely perspires enough for my belt to get wet. I wear a heavy judogi and a t-shirt underneath.

I wash my belt.

Not often, but I wash it.

Especially in the summer, pools of sweat form on the mat. Bad enough that they make an otherwise perfect mat slippery, they also allow stuff to grow. Okay, I bleach my mat once a month. But dip my belt in one of those pools and a bleached mat makes no difference whatsoever.

And it can happen without my being aware of it.

So I wash my belt. Not often, but I wash it.

I've never had ringworm or staph infections and I'd rather not.

Besides, washing the belt makes it softer.

Just don't wash the red belt with your white gi...

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Old 12-19-2006, 01:42 PM   #82
natasha cebek
 
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Re: Belt problem

Quote:
Ronald Shappy wrote:
Wash your belt ?!? Bah. I have never heard of anyone putting there belt in a washing machine...
As far as people getting "sick" from an unwashed belt that sounds a little lame to me, but that's just IMO.Train a lot and the stiffness goes away. After class I fold my belt neatly and place it on a shelf to air it out. My belt has no smell to it, and it is nice and soft and easy to tie.
Ron,
You just confirmed that yes there are still practitioners in this forum- that train hard, sweat like dogs, roll around on the mats that don't have smelly, disgusting Obi's.
I have been chastised for a tradition(mythological or not), that my teacher and many others that I have met, follow. What do I know...according to some people in this forum-nothing.
The truth is do we really know who a person is, who they have trained with, what their rank or experience is? What if I was The great, great, granddaughter of hmmm..lets see..Sokuko Takeda (I'm not of course) and I had first hand knowledge of many traditions (sometimes referred to as myths) and then you insulted my intelligence by informing me that I should not give any opinions about "myths" that have already been debunked on the "AikiWeb" forum. What then?


I agree the "Staph infection" thing sounds awfully suspect, but who knows. Now what I have experienced, are some pretty nasty looking feet with yellow-fungi ridden toenails..that smell really bad.
Any threads on bad personal hygiene and how disgusting it is to grapple with someone who has claw like fingernails and only bathes a few times a week?

Respectfully,
Natasha

Last edited by natasha cebek : 12-19-2006 at 01:45 PM.

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Old 12-19-2006, 02:42 PM   #83
Aristeia
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Re: Belt problem

Quote:
Natasha Cebek wrote:
Ron,
You just confirmed that yes there are still practitioners in this forum- that train hard, sweat like dogs, roll around on the mats that don't have smelly, disgusting Obi's.
I have been chastised for a tradition(mythological or not), that my teacher and many others that I have met, follow. What do I know...according to some people in this forum-nothing.
The truth is do we really know who a person is, who they have trained with, what their rank or experience is? What if I was The great, great, granddaughter of hmmm..lets see..Sokuko Takeda (I'm not of course) and I had first hand knowledge of many traditions (sometimes referred to as myths) and then you insulted my intelligence by informing me that I should not give any opinions about "myths" that have already been debunked on the "AikiWeb" forum. What then?


I agree the "Staph infection" thing sounds awfully suspect, but who knows. Now what I have experienced, are some pretty nasty looking feet with yellow-fungi ridden toenails..that smell really bad.
Any threads on bad personal hygiene and how disgusting it is to grapple with someone who has claw like fingernails and only bathes a few times a week?

Respectfully,
Natasha
Natasha this post is a fair sample of why you're starting to get a tough time here. No one has a problem with you following a tradition for traditions sake so long as we're clear that's what you're doing. It's when you present a long debunked myth as fact that people's antennae start to twitch.

Look at the above post for example. You start by talking about following tradtion - so I'm thinking fair enough. But just at that point you go off on a tangent about how you could be Takedas great granddaughter and then how would we feel? Which makes me think you still want to hang on to the myth as fact. Which it's not. If you did have that direct lineage, what then? Well we'd expect you to pony up the proof and take the discussion from there.

I could say "what if it turned out that I have been to the moon and it is acutally made out of cheese? Then what?" Doesn't mean much unless that *is* what I"m saying and I can back it up right?

So at this point why not just admit that you were mistaken about the factual veracity of the history of the black belt but that you still like the tradition you've been taught and leave it at that?

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 12-19-2006, 06:42 PM   #84
natasha cebek
 
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Re: Belt problem

No, I will not admit I was wrong.
Until someone can substantiate the same "factual veracity" disproving my claim, I stand firm in my belief. This does not mean an article written by "Joe Blow" who has been a martial artist for 20 years and is imparting his own interpretation of some theory.

You see, we are at an impasse..there is no more discussion.
You are as correct as I am regarding our own interpretation. You see, had you actually read what I had written in one of the many previous posts on this subject, I had very clearly stated that this was based on a tradition passed down- In my lineage and I also concurred that I couldn't actually prove it. etc.. etc..What is it that you need to hear, that I have not already stated?
Unbelievable.
I'm done with this thread.
Thank you.

Last edited by natasha cebek : 12-19-2006 at 06:48 PM.

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Old 12-19-2006, 08:04 PM   #85
Aristeia
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Re: Belt problem

oh ok I get it now. The fact of the matter is less important to you than holding on to the beleif that your seniors are infalliable. You were expecting that as soon as you said it was a matter of tradition passed down from your sensei that everyone would say "oh ok then we don't want want to challenge that because every path leads to the same summit etc etc". Yeah, that's not how it works on these types of forums typically. The links provided you provide ample evidence of at the very least, the extremely unlikeliness of the myth. To challenge this you have "tradition" i.e. the story told by your sensei, and his sensei before him. The problem is that you are prepared to take the unexamined opinion of your Sensei over the common sense evidence. I suspect that will be a problem that extends beyond this discussion.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 12-19-2006, 08:05 PM   #86
Aristeia
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Re: Belt problem

Quote:
Natasha Cebek wrote:
You are as correct as I am regarding our own interpretation.
One last point. That is incorrect. One of us is right and one of us is wrong. This is not a matter of opinion it is a matter of historical fact.

Last edited by Aristeia : 12-19-2006 at 08:08 PM.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 12-19-2006, 08:22 PM   #87
natasha cebek
 
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Re: Belt problem

You obviously have an issue about being right.. Ok then your right.

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Old 12-19-2006, 08:35 PM   #88
raul rodrigo
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Re: Belt problem

I think basically Natasha is telling us to leave her alone to believe what she wants to believe, regardless of what the empirical facts are. Which is her privilege. No one can make her do otherwise.

The only problem, Natasha, occurred earlier on, was when you implied that our not accepting your belief as fact was due to some laziness or ignorance or lack of intelligence on our parts.

But now that its all supposed to be a matter of opinion (in your mind), then everyone can retire to their corners and leave this little myth alone.

R
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Old 12-19-2006, 08:52 PM   #89
Aristeia
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Re: Belt problem

Quote:
Natasha Cebek wrote:
You obviously have an issue about being right.. Ok then your right.
LOL. I have no issue about being right - it happens quite naturally :-) I do have an issue with BS in the martial arts.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 12-19-2006, 09:04 PM   #90
natasha cebek
 
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Re: Belt problem

Paul..I never implied anyone was ignorant or lazy, I don't know what your talking about. In fact I think I stated my own ignorance during one of the 10 million posts regarding this subject.

Michael...thanks, but I have reached my limit and "the boredom factor" is creeping in..in other words, I really don't care.
Ah well, theres nothing like a lively debate on semantics to get the blood going.

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Old 12-19-2006, 10:14 PM   #91
Aristeia
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Re: Belt problem

you're right, "fact" vs "myth" is just a matter of semantics.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 12-19-2006, 10:15 PM   #92
Aristeia
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Re: Belt problem

Quote:
Natasha Cebek wrote:
Ok, you should do the research, it is very important to know the history of martial arts in all of its forms, including the "creation" of the Obi.
you don't see how this could be reas as implying people are ignorant or lazy? At the very least it's patronising which is ironic.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 12-19-2006, 11:49 PM   #93
Michael Hackett
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Re: Belt problem

How did this issue become one of semantics? Natasha wrote of a tradition she believed in that holds that obi are never to be washed, and further that historically a dirty and used white belt would eventually become a black belt. Others disagreed about the history of the belt and provided information to support their argument. Natasha chose to ignore the information and explained that her position was based on what she had been told by her Sensei and that her school follows that course of action. I, for one, posited that a dirty belt is unsanitary and should be avoided for that reason if nothing else. Now she suggests that all of this is a matter of semantics, largely an argument on the meaning of words and she is bored with it. I'm simply confused, perhaps confused too simply, but confused nontheless.

To paraphrase Voltaire, I may not agree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it wrong.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 12-19-2006, 11:54 PM   #94
Aristeia
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Re: Belt problem

Quote:
Michael Hackett wrote:
How did this issue become one of semantics? .
it's not.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 12-20-2006, 11:11 AM   #95
DonMagee
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Re: Belt problem

I'm going to do more research into the dangers of not washing your belt. I am going to wear a belt, unwashed for 1 month. That is over 20 days of hard, physical, training (judo, bjj, aikido, and I will wear the belt while stretching, running, warming up, jumping rope, sparing, drilling, etc). Basically while I am doing any martial art related practice, I will wear my belt. This will be a brand new belt I am going to acquire from atama. At once months time I will ask a lab to test my belt and tell me what dangerous substances can be found on this belt. I will check it for smells, and keep a photo log of it's appearance.

What I need right now is some assistance. I need to find a medical lab that will test my belt for me at low or no cost. I am a community college teacher, and I do not have much money. I am going to check my connections here, but if any of you can supply help, we can test once and for all exactly what danger a belt presents in passing on infections.

This is a good time to begin this test, because currently there is a ring worm outbreak at my school. The mats are being washed directly before class each and ever day, everyone is told to wear a clean uniform each day, Infected students are required to cover their infections with bandages or tape, yet the spread continues. I do not know how many students do indeed wash their belts. However we will be able to find out if enough ring worm can live on my belt to pass along.

We can also find out if any dangerous molds, fungus, bacteria, etc can live in my belt in quantities sufficient to cause illness.

Who's with me? I need a new gi anyways, so I can order my new gi and ask them for a brand new white belt.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 12-20-2006, 11:28 AM   #96
Avery Jenkins
 
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Re: Belt problem

Don--

What a hoot! I think this is a great idea. If you can't hook up with anyone locally, try the microbiology department of the University of Bridgeport College of Chiropractic.

Avery
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Old 12-20-2006, 11:32 AM   #97
Hanna B
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Re: Belt problem

Quote:
Amanda Lindsay wrote:
Before anyone starts on colours or urban myths this is not what this thread is about.
She mentioned it in her very first post on this thread... and still it got hijacked.

Well well.

Quote:
Amanda Lindsay wrote:
I have just got a new belt and I am having a problem keeping it tied. It's very stiff. Any hints on softening it a bit. It's a club belt so I don't want to abuse it too much.
Running it throught the mangle worked miracles for the tieability (sp?) of my belts, regardless of colour.
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Old 12-20-2006, 12:07 PM   #98
DonMagee
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Re: Belt problem

Quote:
Avery Jenkins wrote:
Don--

What a hoot! I think this is a great idea. If you can't hook up with anyone locally, try the microbiology department of the University of Bridgeport College of Chiropractic.

Avery
Talking to some people I know in biology, I realized this is going to be a major undertaking. The number of controls we require could take a few months of data gathering. Who knows, we may find air dried washed belts contain more mold then unwashed belts. When I have formulated the entire project, I'll start a new thread to get feedback on the plan.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 12-20-2006, 12:48 PM   #99
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Belt problem

ok, someone has WAAAAAYYYY too much time on his hands!

Best,
Ron (good luck with the project)

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 12-20-2006, 01:14 PM   #100
Mike Galante
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Re: Belt problem

Please someone stop this thread before it gets out of hand!
Wash, Don't wash, knock yourself out!
Merry Christman
Happy Chanuka
Happy New Year
God bless
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