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Old 06-19-2006, 02:35 AM   #51
Chris Li
 
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Quote:
Hanna Bjk wrote:
With all due respect Chris, it sounds like you are arguing more concerning your own feelings regarding stepfamilies than this actual case. It seems to me your main arguments are against the fact that a step mom acted as bravely as if she was the mother. You are entitled to your opinion that divorced people with children should not remarry, i.e. a stepfamily is in itself something evil. Sure being a step parent is hard but your opinion does not match my view of the world and most of the stepfamilies I have seen... IMHO quite a bit of the "family evil" takes place in non-step families as well.
There are many problems associated with stepfamilies, of which this is a prime example, but it has nothing to do with "evil", my experiences as a stepchild were just fine. I don't think that that people with minor children ought to remarry because, statistically, it means dragging them through a second divorce experience. Now that's not very romantic, but those are the numbers - over 60% of second marriages fail, and the percentage is even higher when children are involved.

In any case, my point was that a premeditated physical engagement (as opposed to a spontaneous instance of self defense) with a 12 year old is not something that I would recommend. That the 12 year old is not actually your own child (step or otherwise) only makes the strategy that much more difficult to recommend. I'm glad that it worked for Carol, but I certainly wouldn't encourage it in any student of mine who proposed using their training in that way.

Best,

Chris

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Old 06-19-2006, 02:38 AM   #52
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

I think we are talking at cross purposes here. Chris is absolutely right that step parents have almost no rights regarding childrend these days. But frankly, neither do the birth parents when it comes to something like this.

That's why I said that no one I know would look at this interaction as "desirable". When things get physical, the legal authorities start getting involved. And that is one of the very worst thing that can happen.Either you are guilty of abusive behavior or the child is guilty of assault. Either way you will get to meet all sorts of folks you didn't want to know...

So, of course you do what you can to head off this kind of confrontation. It really is bad. You feel horrible. The child really doesn't feel good about his own behavior... Bad ju ju all the way around.

But I still maintain that there is a bottom line which is that no one has to put up with assaultive behavior. I also maintain that, finding out that women can be quite powerful and capable of defending themselves is not a bad lesson for a young adolescent male to receive. There is absolutely no reason that this lesson needs humiliating or demeaning in any way. It totally depends on the spirit in which it is given. Once the point has been made you get back to giving the child in question all the love and attention he can handle.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
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Old 06-19-2006, 03:44 AM   #53
ruthmc
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

In my experience with kids and young teens, talking doesn't always work. If they decide to get physical, you have to protect yourself and the kid. Aikido works very well for this.

In the case of kids with behaviour issues (from being upset to severe autism) you won't always get though to them by talking - they stop listening to anyone else and act on their own feelings. They cannot be reasoned with when they are like that.

I think Carol has been doing a great job, and I applaud her for her efforts!

Ruth
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Old 06-19-2006, 04:02 AM   #54
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

This boy has learned from someone (probably the rotating boyfriends of Real mom) how to treat women by physical intimidation and abuse.
The two best ways for him to learn otherwise is an adult male role model (preferably a father even if it is the second marriage or third) that treats the mom with love and respect and a "mom"( real mom, step mom, foster mom, etc) to show him with, love and compassion, how to treat women and how not to treat women.
It is better if the parents do preplanned responses for repetitive negative behavior so that you can be in control of yourself and the situation when you respond. Otherwise your reaction might be uncontrolled explosive anger with the greater chance of physical and psychological injury.
If the child is having emotional problems with his past and/or present family situation and is acting out in a physical and destructive way, then physical means to stop this child will happen if not by the parents themselves then by the police, children services, juvenile justice system," all sorts of folks you didn't want to know" that George is talking about. Being in "the system" of "the folks you didn't want to know" is not a better situation for the kid and he will probably end up in worst physical and psychological shape.
I would definitely recommend physical intervention to help the child as long as the response is reasonable as the situation dictates.

Last edited by dps : 06-19-2006 at 04:12 AM.

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Old 06-19-2006, 08:22 AM   #55
Esaemann
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Probably not to popular an opinion in this day and age, but maybe she should leave. After all, shouldn't the father's kid come first.
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Old 06-19-2006, 12:29 PM   #56
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

I'm sorry but promising yourself that "if he does this again I will have no choice but to physically defend myself:" is not a pre-meditated attack. It is taking the last resort, and it IS self defense.

Q
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Old 06-19-2006, 02:17 PM   #57
Trish Greene
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Chris,

I do not know your background but I really have to disagree with this statement of yours.

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
Yet another argument, IMO, against remarriage while minor children are still in the household.
You would rather the child live in a single family home then have two parents available? My husband's parents divorced and his mom remarried when he was 8 yo. I thank god that the man that came in to his life at that time was there to raise him, his real father was dealing at the time was dealing with his own addictions and a second family that he had started. My husband at the time was an angry little boy.

His step father was a good man, and a martial artist. At one point my teen-aged husband let his hormones get away from him and threatened his mother, his stepfather promptly reacted by putting him up against a wall with this warning "she might be your mother, but she is my wife, do not disrespect her like that again." . Contrary to what some might think, this did him a world of good to help him get his priorities straightened out. Now as a 40 yo man, my husband praises his stepfather left and right for being there to raise him as he did. I couldn't imagine what and where my husband would be at this time if he didn't have a father figure there.

As for the rest of the posts.. I will comment on those when I am finish reading them!
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Old 06-19-2006, 02:55 PM   #58
John Boswell
 
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Teenagers... fight. It's not a "generalization" to me. It's just a fact. My parents never divorced and I remember very clearly my brothers... one by one... picking a fight with Dad when they started to seek their independence as teenagers (young "adults"?).

When my turn came, I was 16, furious and in Dad's face. And he was eggin' me on! (Not a healthy attitude at the time, but I learned a lot from it.) And instead of doing like my brothers... throwing a punch, I laughed and told him that fighting him was going to be the LAST thing I ever did. Then I got the hell outta Dodge.

Point is, kids fight. It could be something or someone, but it is going to happen. The kid from the original story? Sure, the step-mom might have tried other avenues ot calm the kid down, but how do we know she didn't? If my son ever gets physical with my wife (his mother), he will find himself in more trouble than he knows what to do with... and she doesn't know martial arts of any kind! And then it'll be MY turn to "talk" to the boy.

Nope. I think there is too much "unknown" information for the original author of this thread to reach the conclusions that he did.

Imagine a child in the "terrible two's." Remember those days? They're little HELLIONS! They know better, but they slap at Mommy and Daddy anyways... even after they get in trouble... they'll still do it.

You gonna stand there and take it? Try and reason with a two year old?

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Old 06-19-2006, 04:13 PM   #59
Chris Li
 
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Quote:
Trish Greene wrote:
You would rather the child live in a single family home then have two parents available?
I mentioned it elsewhere, but the reason that I don't believe that parents with minor children ought to remarry is that, statistically, it means dragging the children through a second divorce experience.

No, it's not romantic, but that's what the numbers say - over 60% of second marriages end in divorce, and that percentage is even higher when children are involved.

Best,

Chris

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Old 06-19-2006, 04:26 PM   #60
Trish Greene
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Well if you are strictly looking at odds... whats the percentage of first marriages staying together? Heck, those are pretty dismal too! Lets just all stay single and not have kids then to spare them what could "statistically speaking" be a bad life!

But thats not what life is all about...

(sorry about the minor rant!)
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Old 06-19-2006, 04:34 PM   #61
Chris Li
 
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Quote:
Trish Greene wrote:
Well if you are strictly looking at odds... whats the percentage of first marriages staying together? Heck, those are pretty dismal too! Lets just all stay single and not have kids then to spare them what could "statistically speaking" be a bad life!

But thats not what life is all about...

(sorry about the minor rant!)
You're right, statistics for first marriages aren't that great either, but they're still quite a bit better than for second marriages with children. For two out of three second marriages with children you're looking at subjecting children already dragged through the divorce experience once to being dragged through it all over again. Now, with anything in life you take your chances and hope for the best, but IMO those odds are not good enough to gamble on.

Of course, everybody thinks that it "won't happen to me", but it seems clear from the numbers that it's happening to somebody - quite a lot of somebodies.

Best,

Chris

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Old 06-19-2006, 06:33 PM   #62
TigerJK
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

lol looks like most disagree with me.

Well since I stated my opinions, assuming you read all of my posts and dialogue, it's useless to "argue" any more.

But let me agree - that is with Chris Li:

Quote:
I never said that he couldn't hurt her. What I said was that this was a continuing situation, and not a spur of the moment attack. Given that, there are better ways of handling the situation than getting involved physically with a twelve year old.

Best,

Chris
From her story, she says this was not the first time, but as Mr. Li states, a continuous thing.

Quote:
at every incident
She made her decision quite some time after he first began hitting her. That being said, why didn't she set up a meeting with the kid's dad as soon as it began? (see page 1 in my posts for the discussion I am referring to) She should expect hostility before she even met him because of the divorce situation, so both a pre-emptive and a IMMEDIATE post-attack meeting with the father would be optimal. As you know, in so-called "Real Life Aikido" timing is one of the most if not the most important parts of any technique.

On top of this, she clearly states that she didn't bring this up with the father. Not only is this irresponsible for someone dating the father, this is even irresponsible for a human being period. Even completely unconnect people who were attacked by the child would bring it up with the kid's parent, in this case the dad. This not only worsens the situation (kid not realizing the father would be against this) but that also shows her ulterior motivation - staying with the kid's dad. She prevents all knowledge of the situation with the father

Quote:
What am I to do? Yell "just wait til your father gets home!!"
and it would seem that she feels this information would be threatening to her relationship, a severely irresponsible and immoral cover-up.

The fact is, is not that this was a sudden attack and she suddenly defended herself out of necessity. She had several incidents of being attacked before doing anything. Basically the attacks weren't more than average beatings by a kid (having taught small classes I know) and despite possibly being painful, since she acted as if nothing happened to the father it is clear evidence that she was holding it.

Holding it shows three things -
1. These were not truly threatening or else she would have immediately informed the father, and on top of that even is she tried to hide it, her injury was not noticed by the father, suggesting hard bruises at most.

and more importantly the next two points:

2. She clearly doesn't like the child but held both informing the parent and even phsyical reacting to the hitting. This built up an obvious, thought-disruptive grudge (She brags that she does not "murder" the child in the last sentence as if the temptation were unbearable.)
She is clearly only motivated by maintaining the relationship even to the point of #3:

3. DISHONESTY, DECEPTION, CORRUPTION, and ATTACKING FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS!

The fact that she says
Quote:
What am I to do? Yell "just wait til your father gets home!!"
Shows she was HOME ALONE with the child, as in THE FATHER WAS NOT ONLY CLUELESS TO THE CONFLICT, but ACTUALLY TRUSTED THEIR FELLOWSHIP ENOUGH TO LEAVE HER ALONE WITH HIM! This is a relationship built on lies, and beyond even aikido, lying is against even the basic human moral code, so why would this website community have spread her story as a good example of "real life aikido"?? Is this how we want aikido to be spread to those who doubt the physical prowess? As a method of getting away with dishonesty???

If she had been a military, government, or even a dojo authority figure, such a cover-up of conflict would be taken as obvious corruption for the sake of promotion, so why is she praised for it within our aiki community?

And most importantly to the father and son, she is severely disrupting and disrespecting their connection. Forget the fact that the parents are divorced, even forget the fact that the child wants the mother. The witholding of information and lack of honesty are clear obstructions in the communication between the father and son. The divorce and want of the mother can both be cured if she had tried to work things out with both the father and son present together, and set up an open dialogue about how the child understandably feels, and how they can still be friends, and how she is not there to replace his mother, etc, etc, etc. Instead, she pushes it under the rug, then is frustrated by the dust bunny she created and is not responsible enough to do anything but toss a kid around instead of admitting both her wrongful cover-up and deciding to talk about it in the manner of even the common adult!!!!!
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Old 06-19-2006, 06:42 PM   #63
Hanna B
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Quote:
James Ko wrote:
That being said, why didn't she set up a meeting with the kid's dad as soon as it began?
What? "Set up a meeting" with her husband? What if the dad, because of the kid's nature, had little influence on what he did when the father was not around?

Quote:
On top of this, she clearly states that she didn't bring this up with the father.
I must have missed that. Please, tell me where that is in writing? No, I think you must have gotten things very very wrong.

Why are you talking about "she". Carol has participated in this thread, it seems like a good idea to address her directly. Maybe that way of discussing would make the kind of tone you have in your last post, son, less possible.

Last edited by Hanna B : 06-19-2006 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 06-19-2006, 06:58 PM   #64
Chris Li
 
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Quote:
James Ko wrote:
lol looks like most disagree with me.

Well since I stated my opinions, assuming you read all of my posts and dialogue, it's useless to "argue" any more.

But let me agree - that is with Chris Li:
I don't think that I would be as harsh as you were, certainly I wouldn't be without more in-depth information. Anyway, my main point was that this was a risky strategy that happened to turn out well, but that I certainly wouldn't recommend to others.

Best,

Chris

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Old 06-19-2006, 07:06 PM   #65
TigerJK
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Quote:
Hanna Björk wrote:
What if the dad, because of the kid's nature, had little influence on what he did when the father was not around?
Then why was she home alone with him? Not a very wise decision is it?

As far as Carol... it is good that I saw her posts only after stating these facts - otherwise I would be biased wouldn't I? (watch Sanjuro http://www.apolloguide.com/mov_fullrev.asp?CID=1510)

Well I've said all I have to say on the public fact stating level, except this:



One day, one of the instructors was shocked to realize his leather jacket was missing. He immediately lined up all of the students and began shouting furiously at them, severely chastising all of them for theft and demanded to know who took it. During this time, leather jackets were extremely expensive in Japan. When O'Sensei leanred of what had happened, he came to the dojo, and to everyone's surprise, chastised the instructor. Ueshiba sensei said it was the instructors fault for being so attached to the jacket, and that a good martial artist would never have behaved as him.


Try to figure out what the "jacket" is in this story. Let me give you a hint, it's not Carol or her body.

Well, Carol, if you would like to address me, please pm. I am done for public discussion on this - as of now I have said all I wanted to say about this. Arguments to reinforce things already stated are futil, but feel free to discuss with me on pm, I would like to hear your clarifications of your thoughts and actions.

P.S. Hanna, I would appreciate it if you did not call me "son," especially considering the fact you are okay with throwing "sons" around using what you have learned in aikido.
But though
Quote:
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire, (Attributed); originated in "The Friends of Voltaire", 1906, by S. G. Tallentyre (Evelyn Beatrice Hall)
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Old 06-19-2006, 07:09 PM   #66
TigerJK
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
I don't think that I would be as harsh as you were, certainly I wouldn't be without more in-depth information.
Oh, thanks for the clarification. Sorry if I misused your quote there.

Well I'm glad I was harsh, or else honest discussion (something I value above fake relationships) would not have been possible in this controversial issue, at least with my current limited communication ability.
Quote:
"There are some that only employ words for the purpose of disguising their thoughts."
Voltaire, Dialogue, XIV, "Le Chapon et la Poularde" (1766)

But I respect your ability to be both polite and honest at once, even envy it.

In Conclusion,
James

Last edited by TigerJK : 06-19-2006 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 06-19-2006, 07:30 PM   #67
Hanna B
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Quote:
James Ko wrote:
Then why was she home alone with him? Not a very wise decision is it?
Providing the kid is living with his father, how on earth can you avoid being alone with the kid of your husband. Just how old are you, James? which is what I kind of hinted with the "son" remark.

You said Carol never talked to the husband. When I asked you where that is stated, you do not respond. I will not feed you any more on this web board.

Last edited by Hanna B : 06-19-2006 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 06-19-2006, 07:44 PM   #68
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off topic: often attributed Voltaire quote

Quote:
James Ko wrote:
Voltaire, (Attributed); originated in "The Friends of Voltaire", 1906, by S. G. Tallentyre (Evelyn Beatrice Hall)
Voltaire never said that, actually. The phrase was coined by Evelyn Beatrice Hall as a way to summarize what Voltaire stood for.

Last edited by Hanna B : 06-19-2006 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 06-19-2006, 07:57 PM   #69
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
I don't think that I would be as harsh as you were, certainly I wouldn't be without more in-depth information. Anyway, my main point was that this was a risky strategy that happened to turn out well, but that I certainly wouldn't recommend to others.

Best,

Chris
No question... not something you want to have happen if there is any way to avoid it.

George S. Ledyard
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Old 06-19-2006, 09:30 PM   #70
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Quote:
James Ko wrote:
On top of this, she clearly states that she didn't bring this up with the father.threatening to her relationship, a severely irresponsible and immoral cover-up.

[/b]
Carol wrote,

"Abusive Children
When my husband's 12-year old son came to visit us he took to hitting me, slapping me, kicking me at every opportunity. When I spoke to him, he "wasn't doing anything" or he was "just playing." Understandable -- he loves his Mom and loves his Dad and tho they'd already been divorced for 7 years when we met, it's clear to a kid that if only this strange other person who he doesn't know at all would just GO AWAY, then Mom and Dad could get back together again. Wrong -- but understandable. Problem was, the "kid" was as big as me and weighed more. And being abusive. What am I to do? Yell "just wait til your father gets home!!" at every incident? Pull out my handy .45 or Uzi and blow him away? Hmmmmm. Time for some Real Life Aikido! The next punch got him flipped onto the couch. The next grab got him rolled gently across the rug and the next kick got him a firm but authoritative face-plant. Any combination of these got him thoroughly out of breath (as he's also fighting gravity) but he was allowed to live.

And I did not get arrested for murder."


And she also wrote,


"I am the author of the essay in question.

Many appreciative thanks to Anne Marie Giri and George Ledyard and all the others (parents, I suspect) who recognize what was really going on. For those of you who see a Monster Mom, well, your concern is obviously for a sad young boy and I can't object to that. I wish with all my heart that he had gotten that concern from his Real Mom from the very beginning. His story would have been very different.

Meanwhile, look again at Jun Akiyama's intro to this essay. He posted it for good reason.

Quote:
Editor's note: This article was written as a contrasting viewpoint to an ongoing discussion on the Aikido Mailing List regarding subjects such as Hollywood Super Bad Guys, Movie "Martial Arts," Automatic Weapons on the Street, the "killing techniques" found in aikido, and the "impossibility" or "stupidity" of protecting the attacker.
This essay was a response to yet another "Gun War" with endless rants about gun control vs. muzzle velocity vs. stopping power vs. self-defense On The Street ™ .

Caring for your attacker is neither impossible nor stupid. The hard truth is that most attacks you will face in your life will NOT be from ninja drug-lords parachuting out of the sky, it's going to be from people you know and care about. And defending yourself against people you really care about in Real Life, on a daily basis, is much tougher than the fantasy cartoon situations.

Meanwhile, James, you left out the Tae Kwon Do black belt . . .

Quote:
. . . whose fraternity brothers were coming home drunk and throwing punches and kicks at him so he would "show them his moves" -- not realizing that his moves were designed to smash teeth and rip out lungs. His unwillingness to harm was getting him beaten up. "What can I do?" he said. "These are my brothers. I don't want to hurt them!" We showed him tenkan. He stayed.
There's really no difference in attackers here -- except in size, weight and strength.

Quote:
Now we're talking Real Aikido, responsibility, range of options.

Are you going to purposely smash that person you care about? Do everything you can to crush and destroy? or -- Be rendered completely helpless by unwillingness to harm? Or are you going to be effective and real glad that the effectiveness and control come with the option NOT to smash and destroy?
And maybe you might train for that?
The fact is, I cared about Chris, I cared about the law, and I cared about protecting myself. As Anne Marie says, it is NOT Aiki to be a doormat. I am also trained in karate -- and yes I had that option and chose not to use it. It was inappropriate. Aikido was appropriate and gave me the ability to protect both of us.

Did I talk to him? Work with him? Oh yes I did. When he arrived in Virginia he could not read at all. Real Mom didn't care enough to look at his homework or talk to him after school -- apparently too busy with a stream of "boyfriends." I taught him to read by sitting and reading Jules Verne's "Voyage to the Center of the Earth" one paragraph for me, one paragraph for him, Treasure Island, and others, for hours at a time and yes you can go see "Jurassic Park" movie as soon as you read the book. He read the book but came back from the movie disappointed. "They took out all the GOOD parts!" (YESSSSSS!!!!) . . . this from a boy who, at 12, could only read comic books. And why was that? Because someone else hadn't cared enough about this child to be a Real Real Mom. He was treated badly, but not by me.

Real Parents know that you can't negotiate or talk or work with a child who is being abusive -- and successful at it. Hey! He's winning! Why would he stop what works?

As George Ledyard points out, that behavior must stop before anything else can happen -- for all the same reasons that you don't hand the car keys -- or that .45 or Uzi -- to a 5 year old.

I used to tell Chris that a parent's job is to keep their kids safe until their frontal lobes develop. To my mind there wasn't much difference between his treatment of me and discovering his plan to spell out "Happy Halloween!" on the front lawn with the gasoline can and light it on fire. Seemed reasonable to him, and a great Hollywood Special Effect, and yes, I shut that down too.

Discovering his plan ahead of time was a good opening for a lecture on vapor pressure; if it had been later, well, better an ikkyo than the burn unit. Better a koshi than juvenile detention.

At any rate, please remember that this was written as a counter to the notion that an attacker (any attacker!??) deserves whatever he gets. I don't agree.

You do what is appropriate. Nothing more -- and nothing less.

Carol Shifflett"


Can't find your quote anywhere in what Carol wrote. You lose alot of credibility when you make up facts to support your argument.

Trust only movement. Life happens at the level of events not of words. Trust movement. --Alfred Adler
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Old 06-19-2006, 09:33 PM   #71
TigerJK
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Quote:
Hanna Björk wrote:
Providing the kid is living with his father, how on earth can you avoid being alone with the kid of your husband.
because the kid wasn't.
Quote:
Carol wrote:
When my husband's 12-year old son came to visit us he took to hitting...

Last edited by TigerJK : 06-19-2006 at 09:38 PM.
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Old 06-19-2006, 09:38 PM   #72
TigerJK
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Thanks for the clarification David Skaggs, I was going on the article itself, which suggested that she did not speak with the father
Quote:
What am I to do? Yell "just wait til your father gets home!!" at every incident?

Last edited by TigerJK : 06-19-2006 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 06-19-2006, 10:06 PM   #73
dps
 
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Quote:
James Ko wrote:
Thanks for the clarification David Skaggs, I was going on the article itself, which suggested that she did not speak with the father
Bit of a stretch between" suggested" to "clearly states".

When I write a post and before I submit it I do three things.

1.Check Spelling, my addled brain does not remember how to spell as well as it used to.
2. Preview Post, make sure I wrote what I meant to say because of my addled brain.
3. Erase what I wrote and take a some time to think about what I want to say as concise and brief as possible. The addled brain thing again.

Not that I am suggesting that your brain is like mine but it does make for clearer written communications.
David Skaggs

P.S. I rewrote this post three times and spelled addled wrong all three times.

P.S.S. I would like to add a fourth thing to do before posting. Look up the definition of any words you may not be sure of.

Definition addled:

1.An egg that has become rotten or the living contents of which have died or been destroyed. Purple Martins commonly roll their addled eggs out of their nest cups into the nest periphery, or out onto the porches of their houses.
www.purplemartin.org/main/Terminology.html

2.confused and vague; used especially of thinking; "muddleheaded ideas"; "your addled little brain"; "woolly thinking"; "woolly-headed ideas"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

I of course mean the second definition.

David Skaggs

Last edited by dps : 06-19-2006 at 10:14 PM.

Trust only movement. Life happens at the level of events not of words. Trust movement. --Alfred Adler
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Old 06-19-2006, 11:11 PM   #74
dps
 
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote:

Definition addled:

1.An egg that has become rotten or the living contents of which have died or been destroyed. Purple Martins commonly roll their addled eggs out of their nest cups into the nest periphery, or out onto the porches of their houses.
www.purplemartin.org/main/Terminology.html

David Skaggs
Now that I think about it I do have a recurring dream of falling out of the bedroom window and when I wake up I am on the front porch. Hmmm I need to ask my wife about this.

Trust only movement. Life happens at the level of events not of words. Trust movement. --Alfred Adler
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Old 06-19-2006, 11:14 PM   #75
TigerJK
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Re: Very disturbed by this AikiWeb article

Yes.... my posts were made in haste and in a very rambled way. Oh, well, live and learn.

I hope I can improve my communication next discussion. Thanks for the advice David.
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