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Old 10-31-2002, 09:51 AM   #51
bcole23
Dojo: Eagle Rock Aikido, Ammon, ID
Location: Ammon, ID
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 120
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Just as a point:

I feel that message board and discussions on the internet lack so much feedback from the discussees, that many people feel that everything is an arguement.

This thread is called a constructive dialog. People share their views and listen to one another and hopefully, if they have an open mind, gain a deeper understanding.

%us = map { $_ => q{belong} } @your_base;
http://www.eaglerockaikido.com
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Old 10-31-2002, 10:11 PM   #52
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 586
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Quote:
Often, when practice is sped up to the point of reality, there is still some holding back to have a small margin of safety, this is the question of committed attack verses half hearted practice attacks.
Actually, this is one thing that strikes me as 'more realistic' in AiKiDo relative to other arts. Because we learn to apply techniques that don't have to 'hurt' or 'injure,' we are free to move much more quickly and to attack with much more commitment. This has to do with the way we do techniques, but it also has to do with attitude. The cooperative attitude allows us to come much closer to a 'real' situation without fear of injury.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
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Old 11-01-2002, 01:34 AM   #53
DrGazebo
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 15
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Aikido Strikes are Effective

As a karateka, I trained against some aikido strikes after reviewing this discussion. I think you take for granted how difficult these strikes can be to deal with. A very committed overhand attack, done quickly and unexpectedly, is very powerful. In karate, we would block, redirect, step back or enter into the zone. In aikido, you have a wealth of techniques. I reconsider, I think that atemi delivered with intention would certainly cross train you to deal with all types of attack. After all, its the energy of the attack, its intention we need to learn to feel, and not be fooled by appearances, which sets us up for fakes.

I think so many of you are well trained, that you easily deal with attacks which would cause considerable damage of simply blocked. And there is no way I would square off against one of you with a jo, now that would just be foolish.

Aikodoka have nothing to apologize for with respect to atemi. Without aikido principles, in fact, karate is wooden and unrealistic iteslf. So I can't help but think a unified practice of both would be beneficial. Japanese cross training?
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Old 11-01-2002, 01:35 AM   #54
DrGazebo
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 15
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Apologies for the typos, its late and just heading to bed.
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Old 11-01-2002, 03:06 AM   #55
Ta Kung
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 237
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Hi!

I recently began practising "full" attacks with another guy at my dojo. When we practise together, we really do give a 100% comitted attack. So far, my Aikido has worked well. But since I'm pretty new to it, I'd probably get hurt if I didn't know what attack he was going to deliver...

Many of the other students are not willing to give an attack as sincere as we do. Most of theme haven't practised any other art before Aikido (hence their attacks are lacking). Therefore, I only get to practise this way a few times per class (when I'm paired with this othe guy). It's really good training!

/Patrik
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Old 11-01-2002, 10:29 AM   #56
SmallFry
Location: Metro Manila
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 8
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I wish to reply to the comments about aikido attacks not being representative of real world attacks.

I tend to view a lot of the attacks in terms of "angles of attack" rather than focus merely on the type of attack itself. For example with tsuki, it is a thrust to the chest/torso. So if you look at a fist, knife, spear, jo, sidekick or flying side kick that target the torso, all the angles of these attacks would approximate the same path as tsuki. Of course, the type of attack or weapon used will change the dynamics of what exact technique can or should be used. But the general principles of dealing with a tsuki attack should still be applicable.

I picked up the "angle of attack" thing from arnis/escrima and it has somewhat helped me in understanding the principles of dealing with an attack.

I also find it helpful when I keep in mind the principles of getting off the line, centering, and keeping uke off balance. Because these can help in dealing with attacks not normally practiced.

For example, after one practice some of us simulated a mugging with the attacker applying a choke from behind while the other hand has a knife pointed at the back.

By using the principles mentioned, we were able to think up some ways to reasonably get out of such a predicament using aikido moves.

Committed attacks are of course important but I believe it's dependent on a) how much nage already knows the technique so that he's aware of the attack instead of focusing on which foot goes where and what hand should grab which, and b) uke's confidence in taking ukemi for such a full force attack.

Anyway, that's just how I look at it. Hope it helps.
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Old 11-02-2002, 10:05 AM   #57
ronmar
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 66
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.

I think the problem is that aikido doesn't have attacks as such. It is a defensive art. The attacks used are stylised and done in a way such as to make a given response more easy to select and apply.

If aikido was modernised to include an array of effective attacks (eg some simple throws, a few standing holds, some punching and kicking)then uke would have an incentive not to get thrown so that they could continue to attack. This would be a lot more effective training for nage (who would apply only aikido moves)than single stylised attacks with no resistance, follow through, or intent.
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