Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Non-Aikido Martial Traditions

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-03-2008, 03:55 PM   #51
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
United_States
Offline
Re: Kendo and Bokken/Bokuto

Still using the Ipe naginata? Inch for inch-that's some heavy stuff
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 04:09 PM   #52
DonMagee
Location: Indiana
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,311
United_States
Offline
Re: Kendo and Bokken/Bokuto

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Again, I am only trying to STRESS the point that two yahoos (no offense to the dog brothers I like much of their stuff) with no sword training picking up sword shaped thingies to do some live training by bashing each other has not one single thing to do with sword work.
If you "live train" a weapon fomat you should stay true to the attributes of the weapon. Otherwise you might as well take your wooden gun replica and throw it at people or bash them with it and call it "live gun combatives."

I don't know how to say it any clearer than that.
I can't argue with you about that. However I have never claimed wood sword fighting is sword fighting. In fact I believe I said "if you don't look at it as sword fighting and instead look at it as stick fighting it's usefulness increases as a martial art." or something like that.

Just to be clear, I am saying that kendo teaches you skills that can be very useful for stick fighting. I was then told this was not the case that aikido teaches better stick fighting skills. Comments were then made that sparing was unable to test this. I pointed out the dog brothers do full contact stick fighting. I was then told this is not sword fighting.

To me this is like saying airsoft can teach good paintball skills if its looked at as a form of object propellant tag. Then being told it's not a system of training special forces. It is just confusing because I never said it was.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 04:46 PM   #53
Fred Little
Dojo: NJIT Budokai
Location: State Line NJ/NY
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 632
United_States
Offline
Re: Kendo and Bokken/Bokuto

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Still using the Ipe naginata? Inch for inch-that's some heavy stuff
I'll tell Mongo you remembered him.

These days, I uusally reserve the Ipe naginata for solo work. I picked up one made of Ash for partner practice, but I'm still looking for something perfect in shirokashi.

You probably haven't seen Mongo Jr. -- matching bo in Ipe. Mongo Jr. is just enough lighter to be quite manageable, even at speed, so I take him out to play with others every week.

Best,

FL
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 05:30 PM   #54
Aikibu
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
Location: Malibu, California
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,295
United_States
Offline
Re: Kendo and Bokken/Bokuto

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Hi Bud
Well as stated we do allot of work with weapons. We not only do live bokken work- once someone reaches certain level, we do it without armor freestyle-with blind side mutliple attackers with a guy having to respond-yes people can get hurt.
Add to that we also train outdoors in moonlight over rough terrain, roots and stumps, but have also trained in rough terrain in a raging blizzard almost thigh deep in snow.
If you add to that the shinai and armor work with guys getting very severely bruised and almost knocked out...
Add to that twin stick work at high speed with broken hands and knuckles,
Add to that knife work with knuckles arms kidney and chest bruises and facial cuts then yeah...
I think I can understand and appreciate your "enhanced" view of weapons or maybe not. it doesn't chang my point about the difference between bashing with sowrd shaped thingies and real swordwork.
Geez it's almost like you're turning this into a "johnson" contest.

Don't know much about bashing and the Japanese sword is not a good hacking implement it's made for cutting so I agree with you there.

As for the Harsh outdoor training Dude you're talking to an Ex- Ranger....One with steel and pins in his body and every knuckle in his hands broken at least once.

You have NO IDEA. LOL But hey since we seem to be comparing 'johnsons"

Seriously though you sound like a man after my own heart. .

I have no doubt that your training regimen is top knotch and hopefully what you've started will spread for the benefit of Aikido.

Namaste'

William Hazen
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 05:35 PM   #55
Kent Enfield
 
Kent Enfield's Avatar
Location: Oregon, USA
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 224
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido is a Martial Art and not for self-defense???

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
He was trying to get me to move around in tsugi ashi.
Stop digging; the hole's deep enough.

Tsugi ashi is also considered poor form in kendo, generally.

Kentokuseisei
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 06:10 PM   #56
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
United_States
Offline
Re: Kendo and Bokken/Bokuto

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Geez it's almost like you're turning this into a "johnson" contest.

Don't know much about bashing and the Japanese sword is not a good hacking implement it's made for cutting so I agree with you there.

As for the Harsh outdoor training Dude you're talking to an Ex- Ranger....One with steel and pins in his body and every knuckle in his hands broken at least once.

You have NO IDEA. LOL But hey since we seem to be comparing 'johnsons"

Seriously though you sound like a man after my own heart. .

I have no doubt that your training regimen is top knotch and hopefully what you've started will spread for the benefit of Aikido.

Namaste'

William Hazen
Oh heck No Bud
You were offering -quite appropriately i might add- a more in depth view of some of your training. I couldn't resist giving you a window into mine. No worries. I followed many of your responses to Kit and Kevin. I know who I am speaking to-and its why I called you bud.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 10:08 PM   #57
Aikibu
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
Location: Malibu, California
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,295
United_States
Offline
Re: Kendo and Bokken/Bokuto

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Oh heck No Bud
You were offering -quite appropriately i might add- a more in depth view of some of your training. I couldn't resist giving you a window into mine. No worries. I followed many of your responses to Kit and Kevin. I know who I am speaking to-and its why I called you bud.
Cool Bud er on the left coast we say Bro.

Take Care

William Hazen
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 12:08 PM   #58
Zornocology
 
Zornocology's Avatar
Dojo: Halifax Aikikai
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3
Canada
Offline
Re: Kendo and Bokken/Bokuto

I may be stepping out of my league here but I have seen the kendo vs. aikido ken-waza (if that term can be used) from two different angles and have to say that I (as a kendoka) would gladely take on any aikidoka (at least any i have met in my own aikikiai) in a "sword" fight. First, coming from Kendo to Aikido, I find that the techniques practiced seem somewhat elaborate and roundabout rather than straight to the point and efficient like those in Kendo. Second, most Aikidoka don't get any actual combat experiece and when they do can't go full speed full power as you would kill eachother. Thirdly, there is a long time practicioner of Aikido in our Kendo dojo and ... I don't know how to say this politely... he has trouble...
That being said, perhaps when I learn more of the ken-waza from Aikido I can convince a member of my Kendo dojo to really put the two against eachother and see how it goes.

:Adam Nelson:

"When the student is ready, the master appears"
-Buddhist proverb
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 07:49 PM   #59
HL1978
Dojo: Aunkai
Location: Fairfax, VA
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 429
United_States
Offline
Re: Kendo and Bokken/Bokuto

Quote:
Adam Nelson wrote: View Post
I may be stepping out of my league here but I have seen the kendo vs. aikido ken-waza (if that term can be used) from two different angles and have to say that I (as a kendoka) would gladely take on any aikidoka (at least any i have met in my own aikikiai) in a "sword" fight. First, coming from Kendo to Aikido, I find that the techniques practiced seem somewhat elaborate and roundabout rather than straight to the point and efficient like those in Kendo. Second, most Aikidoka don't get any actual combat experiece and when they do can't go full speed full power as you would kill eachother. Thirdly, there is a long time practicioner of Aikido in our Kendo dojo and ... I don't know how to say this politely... he has trouble...
That being said, perhaps when I learn more of the ken-waza from Aikido I can convince a member of my Kendo dojo to really put the two against eachother and see how it goes.
Depends on the rules of course. You could get aikidoka, or koryu practioners doing all sorts of techniques that in a kendo ruleset will never happen.

What happens if they preform kesagiri and strike do or kote with it?
What if they strike the shoulder area?
What if they attack the legs?
What if they throw or strike you?
What if the strike with the tsuka gashira?
What if they tsuki the do (formerly legal in kendo)?

If you want to see what I am talking about, watch an experienced kendoka try isshujiai with a naginataka for the first time. Suddenly some of the alternate kamae make a bit more sense since there is a need to protect the legs, and one might not expect tsuki to the dou (some places still practice it).

I will agree that if one is studying Japanese swordsmanship that there is a need to pressure test, but when one starts playing with more open rules, or in an environment where other techniques are allowed which one is unfamiliar with one shouldn't make assumptions.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2008, 11:55 AM   #60
Zornocology
 
Zornocology's Avatar
Dojo: Halifax Aikikai
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3
Canada
Offline
Re: Kendo and Bokken/Bokuto

i don't believe i've been assumptive at all. I'm speaking from my own meager experience and saying that the techniques i have seen performed, practiced and taught in my aikido dojo don't appear to be ableto stand up to proper kendo techniques (IMO) and after I learn the aikido techniques a little more fully, I am willing to test this theory.

:Adam Nelson:

"When the student is ready, the master appears"
-Buddhist proverb
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
kendo, Iaido and aikido pugtm Non-Aikido Martial Traditions 51 05-04-2007 08:44 PM
Looking for a special Bokken/Bokuto pezalinski Weapons 10 02-17-2005 03:38 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:52 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2018 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2018 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate