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Old 02-16-2006, 02:41 PM   #26
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Yowza...yeah, store sounds good. That sounds like trying to eat the lake fish in Kenya. So many darn bones...the people around the lake could hold a conversation and zip through a fish like a chain saw...fish goes in one side of the mouth, bones come out the other. Never did learn how to do that...

Best,
Ron (we now return you to your regularly scheduled political debate)

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 02-16-2006, 04:01 PM   #27
Huker
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Paige:

To answer your questions as best and as honestly as I can, please read on...

Am I 5 years old?
Yes. I am only five, but my instructor thinks I am big for my age and allows me to attend the adult classes.

Is my life so boring that I have to make up crap about people that just isn't true?
This answer is in two parts. Yes. My life is very boring. I spend several hours a day lodged at my desk studying diagram after diagram of biology and biochemistry.
And no. I never lie unless I'm trying to make fun of someone. Honestly.

Do I like to stir up problems?
Oh very much so. It entertains me greatly to see people get into a good verbal conflict. I don't particularly like yelling or fighting, but I do love it when people make good arguments and counter-arguments to discuss an issue. A well-placed sarcastic post or comment lightens the mood and adds to my entertainment.

I believe that takes care of your questions. Please allow me to retort.

If you're going to call me a Bush-basher, please don't think that I do it in a rediculous way. I do my best to carefully examine multiple perspectives and look at the facts, rather than people's opinions. The reason I bash bush is because I believe him to be an evil man. I do have reasons for this belief as do many others. Some also have reasons for liking him or thinking he's not the "greatest president ever by a long shot but Good God..." The reason that I focus much of my time on Bush and his cronies is because they are people in control of a powerful nation and its assets. I read up on these things because I believe that there are too many who do not. The fact that you've admitted that he's not the best President is the only reason I need to keep reading and posting my opinions. The problem is that he SHOULD BE the greatest president ever or should at least try to be, even once in a while. If he can't do it (he clearly can't) someone else should be on the throne.

Be realistic?? Ok, lets talk realism. There is a war going on in the middle east that country after country is being dragged into. People are being killed on both sides by the thousands. George Bush and those he collaborates with are responsible. Whether or not it was orchestrated by them or not doesn't really matter to my argument here. They launched the invasion, they perpetuate it, they send other people's kids to die. They gather the public support. Sometimes this is done through decieving those who don't examine the facts, sometimes it calls upon those who genuinely love their country and its leaders.

Did Cheney conspire to assassinate anyone, or was it an accident? I suppose this would be an element best left to a discussion. Now...where could I find a place to start one...I'll need some sort of communication medium...hmm...how about a forum.

My questions to you, Paige:

Is YOUR life so boring that you have to hop on a discussion board and start up hostility in my direction?
Are you afraid to make constructive posts that contribute to the discussion?
Did anything I said raise a question in your mind?

Regards.
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Old 02-16-2006, 04:55 PM   #28
Hogan
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
Tanner Hukezalie wrote:
Paige:

To answer your questions as best and as honestly as I can, please read on...

Am I 5 years old?
Yes. I am only five, but my instructor thinks I am big for my age and allows me to attend the adult classes.

Is my life so boring that I have to make up crap about people that just isn't true?
This answer is in two parts. Yes. My life is very boring. I spend several hours a day lodged at my desk studying diagram after diagram of biology and biochemistry.
And no. I never lie unless I'm trying to make fun of someone. Honestly.

Do I like to stir up problems?
Oh very much so. It entertains me greatly to see people get into a good verbal conflict. I don't particularly like yelling or fighting, but I do love it when people make good arguments and counter-arguments to discuss an issue. A well-placed sarcastic post or comment lightens the mood and adds to my entertainment.

I believe that takes care of your questions. Please allow me to retort.

If you're going to call me a Bush-basher, please don't think that I do it in a rediculous way. I do my best to carefully examine multiple perspectives and look at the facts, rather than people's opinions. The reason I bash bush is because I believe him to be an evil man. I do have reasons for this belief as do many others. Some also have reasons for liking him or thinking he's not the "greatest president ever by a long shot but Good God..." The reason that I focus much of my time on Bush and his cronies is because they are people in control of a powerful nation and its assets. I read up on these things because I believe that there are too many who do not. The fact that you've admitted that he's not the best President is the only reason I need to keep reading and posting my opinions. The problem is that he SHOULD BE the greatest president ever or should at least try to be, even once in a while. If he can't do it (he clearly can't) someone else should be on the throne.

Be realistic?? Ok, lets talk realism. There is a war going on in the middle east that country after country is being dragged into. People are being killed on both sides by the thousands. George Bush and those he collaborates with are responsible. Whether or not it was orchestrated by them or not doesn't really matter to my argument here. They launched the invasion, they perpetuate it, they send other people's kids to die. They gather the public support. Sometimes this is done through decieving those who don't examine the facts, sometimes it calls upon those who genuinely love their country and its leaders.

Did Cheney conspire to assassinate anyone, or was it an accident? I suppose this would be an element best left to a discussion. Now...where could I find a place to start one...I'll need some sort of communication medium...hmm...how about a forum.

My questions to you, Paige:

Is YOUR life so boring that you have to hop on a discussion board and start up hostility in my direction?
Are you afraid to make constructive posts that contribute to the discussion?
Did anything I said raise a question in your mind?

Regards.

You damn Canadians! Lay-off my american compatriot! We might just have to annex you in the next war....
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Old 02-16-2006, 05:26 PM   #29
Mark Freeman
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
Tanner Hukezalie wrote:
Yes. I am only five, but my instructor thinks I am big for my age and allows me to attend the adult classes.
Good schools there in Canada eh Tanner!

You may be interested to read the following:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1710062,00.html

It seems that the pentagon's long term review is being read and digested by world leaders at the moment, we are all facing a "Long War" that all of us will be drawn into. The US are planning for long term focused conflict with Islamist extremism.
On past evidence, the US Military machine is not very good at winning the hearts and minds of the locals when they go in 'heavy handed'. It's been generally accepted in many parts of the world that the war in Iraq has not reduced the threat of terrorism. So now we enter into a stated 'Long War' Just the term itself is probably enough for some people teetering on the edge of 'extremism' to tip over into the 'dark side'

I hope that this long war is over by the time you graduate

My own terribly cynical view is that the hawks are secretly quite comfortable with the continued terrorist threat, it justifies hundreds of billions of $$ for them to play with After all is not them in the front line, they can enjoy the occasional leisurely hunting trip, while others lose their lives so that they can continue to enjoy the fruits of their 'labours'.

John Hogan wrote:

Quote:
You damn Canadians! Lay-off my american compatriot! We might just have to annex you in the next war....
as there was no use of a smiley I'm not sure if he was serious! if he was - the defence rests it's case.

We are entering into interesting times folks.

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 02-16-2006, 05:28 PM   #30
Mark Freeman
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Here's a question...just how the heck do you EAT one of those birds when they have 500 pellets in them??? I have this recurring nightmare about my teeth breaking...I know lead is pretty soft, but really...

R
Ron, don't bother chewing, just swallow!

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 02-16-2006, 06:50 PM   #31
Huker
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Nah, don't bother annexing. Just ask Harper. He'll give you Canada. I hear he's a pretty generous guy.

Just for the record, I have absolutely no problem with Americans. I really don't. I don't think that you're any less informed that anyone else on the matter. I fully respect your opinions and your beliefs. But, America is supposedly "the leader of the free world". Bush, being the Pres, is in a pretty big seat. Just don't take it personally if some of us criticize the way he's running things.

I certainly hope the war is over very soon, but I too feel that it will get much worse before it gets better. After all, the next stop is Iran. Gotta stop that power plant from getting built. I hear they're REALLY planning to nuke-up.

As for eating animals with bullets in them--
I was sitting across from one of my uncle's while he was eating a deer steak from one of his kills and he suddenly laughed and spit something hard out onto the plate. It was a rifle round. I guess he got the winning piece. We all thought it was pretty funny.
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Old 02-16-2006, 07:37 PM   #32
aikigirl10
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
Tanner Hukezalie wrote:
Paige:
Am I 5 years old?
Yes. I am only five, but my instructor thinks I am big for my age and allows me to attend the adult classes.
Ah! hahahahahahah. hee ahh he ha oh eh ah ha heheheheheh ha...aaahhh.....



Quote:
Tanner Hukezalie wrote:
Now...where could I find a place to start one...I'll need some sort of communication medium...hmm...how about a forum..
You canadians are darn witty... let me tell ya.



Quote:
Tanner Hukezalie wrote:
My questions to you, Paige:

Is YOUR life so boring that you have to hop on a discussion board and start up hostility in my direction?
Are you afraid to make constructive posts that contribute to the discussion?
Did anything I said raise a question in your mind?

Regards.
You see... tanner... hostility is started when 1/2 french people get on a forum and start making idiotic claims about things that have no discussion in the first place. You know that Cheney didnt shoot the guy on purpose... all you bush bashers know that. You just want to be able to say something to make the bush administration look dumber and dumber.

You're not kidding anyone... not the other members of the "bash bush bandwagon" nor yourself so .... im done now... nothing i will say will ever change your mind or make you view issues without a built-in democratic filter... so go ahead i wont bother you anymore...

my apologies for being rude (this time only haha )
*Paige*
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Old 02-16-2006, 08:25 PM   #33
Huker
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Apology accepted, Paige. Thank you for your input.

Tanner
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Old 02-16-2006, 09:20 PM   #34
Neil Mick
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
If you guys gotta hate, try balancing it out to everyone that deserves it, not just the political party you don't like.
What, do you mean something on the order of hounding a President to distraction and ordering impeachment proceedings for lying about sex with an intern??

Is that the sort of "balance" you mean? Or perhaps you're referring to the "balance" of hoisting up the "mission accomplished" banner, days after the Iraqi invasion? Or, is it the "balance" if lying about a threat, to usher in a war?

Which is it, Mike? Or, are you simply trying to dissemble...yet again, hmm?

Quote:
Paige Frazier wrote:
You know that Cheney didnt shoot the guy on purpose... all you bush bashers know that. You just want to be able to say something to make the bush administration look dumber and dumber.
Gosh, Paige: making BushCo look "dumber (than it already is)," at this point, would be a neat trick...nigh on the order of making the deficit disappear (something beyond the fabled powers of BushCo, I'm sorry to say).

But to the point: it's not about whether Cheney shot the guy "on purpose:" that's not it at all (at least, not for me). The point is the WAY the Administration (mis)handled the whole media affair. I guess Karl Rove must have been on vacation.

Quote:
Tanner Hukezalie wrote:
Nah, don't bother annexing. Just ask Harper. He'll give you Canada. I hear he's a pretty generous guy.
A bit too generous, IMO.

Quote:
Just for the record, I have absolutely no problem with Americans. I really don't. I don't think that you're any less informed that anyone else on the matter.
For the record, I respectfully disagree. American's are some of the most uninformed people on the planet, regarding foreign affairs.

Quote:
I fully respect your opinions and your beliefs. But, America is supposedly "the leader of the free world". Bush, being the Pres, is in a pretty big seat. Just don't take it personally if some of us criticize the way he's running things.
That's the weird thing...for some reason, they do.

If MY President (say, David Cobb, of the Greens) were elected and HE was found out to be lying to the American's and illegally spying on them: I'd be one of the first to call for his resignation...followed by a speedy trial.

But THESE people...you'd think that if Cheney showed up on the Armstrong ranch covered in blood and rambling about how he had to shoot in "self defence (in the back)," as security eases the shotgun from his nerveless fingers: why, I'm sure that several people here would be on aikiweb TOMORROW, proclaiming how butter wouldn't melt in the Chen'ster's mouth, etc, ad nauseum.

Why? I dunno: some people figure that this is some sort of hockey, or computer game. So long as "our side's" winning or in power: it's all good.

Quote:
After all, the next stop is Iran.
You can expect an invasion to be sometime around June. "All options are on the table..." please. BushCo ONLY understands two methods..."MY way, or the HIGHWAY."

Quote:
Paige Frazier wrote:
You see... tanner... hostility is started when 1/2 french people get on a forum and start making idiotic claims about things that have no discussion in the first place.
AND..."1/2 French??" So...when 1/2 Swedish people get on a forum and start making idiotic claims...that doesn't cause hostility??

Those damned French!! Always stirring up trouble!

Last edited by Neil Mick : 02-16-2006 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 02-16-2006, 10:17 PM   #35
Huker
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

I can agree that the way the scenario was handled was highly questionable, which is probably what led me to believe that there was treachery afoot. I mean, if Shotgun Dick has nothing to hide then why keep it from the world. Sure, his job or reputation might have been at stake if he spilled his guts without an explanation, but would waiting 14 hours to report the incident not raise even more skepticism?

Any thoughts, anyone?
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Old 02-17-2006, 03:26 AM   #36
Mark Freeman
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
You just want to be able to say something to make the bush administration look dumber and dumber.
Nothing more needs to be said!

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 02-17-2006, 08:28 AM   #37
Hogan
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
Tanner Hukezalie wrote:
I can agree that the way the scenario was handled was highly questionable, which is probably what led me to believe that there was treachery afoot. I mean, if Shotgun Dick has nothing to hide then why keep it from the world. Sure, his job or reputation might have been at stake if he spilled his guts without an explanation, but would waiting 14 hours to report the incident not raise even more skepticism?

Any thoughts, anyone?
He did't wait 14 hrs to report it - it was that long before the major US press found out. And the major US press is pissed because they think the world revolves around them, you see. Local authorities were there shortly after it happened, and medical attention was given promptly - that's all that matters.
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Old 02-17-2006, 08:57 AM   #38
Huker
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

True, local authorities were there. My understanding is that they weren't allowed to investigate or talk to anyone related to the incident until the secret service was done holding them off for whatever reason. Were they stalling? Why was the law being obstructed?

Immediate medical attention is important, of course, but in this case, it isn't the only thing that matters. The important question is "why?"

Sometimes I think that the world is run by the major US press. Then I think about who controls the press and realize once again that it is run by them.

Regards.
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Old 02-17-2006, 09:41 AM   #39
Hogan
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
Tanner Hukezalie wrote:
True, local authorities were there. My understanding is that they weren't allowed to investigate or talk to anyone related to the incident until the secret service was done holding them off for whatever reason. Were they stalling? Why was the law being obstructed?

Immediate medical attention is important, of course, but in this case, it isn't the only thing that matters. The important question is "why?"

Sometimes I think that the world is run by the major US press. Then I think about who controls the press and realize once again that it is run by them.

Regards.

Ummm, uh, ok. So.... when was marijuana consumption made legal in Canada ?

You know, my fellow American, instead of being afraid of Big Bad Richie (that's Dick Cheney, you know), you should be standing up and fighting things like:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11383819/


But, I guess it's easier to fight Uncle Sam.


If you guys keep this up, your "Hate Bush & Co. At All Costs" will have surpassed the Republican obsession with the Clintons. Well, never mind - it has....
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Old 02-17-2006, 10:45 AM   #40
Psufencer
 
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
John Hogan wrote:
Ummm, uh, ok. So.... when was marijuana consumption made legal in Canada ?

You know, my fellow American, instead of being afraid of Big Bad Richie (that's Dick Cheney, you know), you should be standing up and fighting things like:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11383819/


But, I guess it's easier to fight Uncle Sam.


If you guys keep this up, your "Hate Bush & Co. At All Costs" will have surpassed the Republican obsession with the Clintons. Well, never mind - it has....

Why does any response to a critique of the Bush Administration invariably come down to simple fear-mongering?

I do not wish to fight anybody. I simply would like my country to remain a pleasant place to live, and to regain some shred of respectablity in the eyes of the world. I don't feel like Mr. Bush and Company are with me on that, and so I dislike them.

But I guess that means that I'm not a real American...
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Old 02-17-2006, 10:48 AM   #41
James Davis
 
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
John Hogan wrote:
You damn Canadians! Lay-off my american compatriot! We might just have to annex you in the next war....
I heard they have oil up there!! Lock and load!!

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 02-17-2006, 10:48 AM   #42
Hogan
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
Aaron Clark wrote:
Why does any response to a critique of the Bush Administration invariably come down to simple fear-mongering?

I do not wish to fight anybody. I simply would like my country to remain a pleasant place to live, and to regain some shred of respectablity in the eyes of the world. I don't feel like Mr. Bush and Company are with me on that, and so I dislike them.

But I guess that means that I'm not a real American...
Fear mongering ? Sorry, I have done no such thing using any definition of the term. I would suggest getting thee to a dictionary.
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Old 02-17-2006, 10:49 AM   #43
Hogan
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
James Davis, Jr. wrote:
I heard they have oil up there!! Lock and load!!

hahaha... I'm already staking out claims.
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Old 02-17-2006, 11:09 AM   #44
Psufencer
 
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
John Hogan wrote:
Fear mongering ? Sorry, I have done no such thing using any definition of the term. I would suggest getting thee to a dictionary.
Your link suggests that we should fear--okay, you said "fight," but aren't fear and fighting closely related?--those in other nations who think and feel differently from us. I have no such desire. Even if I'm not exactly crazy about what they're saying...
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Old 02-17-2006, 11:41 AM   #45
Neil Mick
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
Aaron Clark wrote:
Your link suggests that we should fear--okay, you said "fight," but aren't fear and fighting closely related?--those in other nations who think and feel differently from us. I have no such desire. Even if I'm not exactly crazy about what they're saying...
You have to understand something, about John's beliefs. To John:
freedom is impossible, without US domination. The Iraqi's; the Iranians...heck, everyone living in the ME is living under tyranny, unless they are firmly under a US-approved military rule.

(And, I suppose, by extension: democracy is also impossible, unless it is supported by the US. Would you agree with me on this, John? Without US interference, democracy is also impossible, in many parts of the world? )

But in any case: in John's beliefs, fighting is not only necessary...it's vital to securing world freedom.

Personally, tho, Aaron: I agree with you...fear and fighting are closely related. America has got to be the most scared country in the world.

There's a new movie coming out that touches on this topic, esp around the military-industrial complex. It's called "Why We Fight." Sadly, it's not playing in my area.

Last edited by Neil Mick : 02-17-2006 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 02-17-2006, 11:45 AM   #46
Hogan
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
Aaron Clark wrote:
Your link suggests that we should fear--okay, you said "fight," but aren't fear and fighting closely related?--those in other nations who think and feel differently from us. I have no such desire. Even if I'm not exactly crazy about what they're saying...
Did you even read the link ? I suggested people fight against others putting $1million bounties on cartoonists because they dare to believe in a free press and published a cartoon. I think that is a little more important than whether Cheney waited a few hrs to tell the main- arrogant US press. In other words, his accident is small potatoes compared to other things. Get your panties in a bunch about other, really important stuff.
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Old 02-17-2006, 11:49 AM   #47
Neil Mick
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
John Hogan wrote:
In other words, his accident is small potatoes compared to other things. Get your panties in a bunch about other, really important stuff.
On THIS point: we are in complete agreement.
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Old 02-17-2006, 11:49 AM   #48
Hogan
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
Neil Mick wrote:
You have to understand something, about John's beliefs. To John:
freedom is impossible, without US domination. The Iraqi's; the Iranians...heck, everyone living in the ME is living under tyranny, unless they are firmly under a US-approved military rule.

(And, I suppose, by extension: democracy is also impossible, unless it is supported by the US. Would you agree with me on this, John? Without US interference, democracy is also impossible, in many parts of the world? )

But in any case: in John's beliefs, fighting is not only necessary...it's vital to securing world freedom.

Personally, tho, Aaron: I agree with you...fear and fighting are closely related. America has got to be the most scared country in the world.

Neil, Neil, Neil - my soon to be drinking buddy - c'mon... what does me saying to people they should be more concerned and fight against crazy nut jobs who put $1million bounties on the head of a cartoonist because they were "offended" (boo hoo) have anything to do with your attempted summary of my beliefs? Are you trying to swing to another subject?

By the way, US domination does not mean firmly under US military rule, nor does US interference mean that freedom exists - it (freedom) exists because the US exists, because she 'dominates' the world.
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Old 02-17-2006, 11:55 AM   #49
Neil Mick
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
John Hogan wrote:
Neil, Neil, Neil - my soon to be drinking buddy - c'mon... what does me saying to people they should be more concerned and fight against crazy nut jobs who put $1million bounties on the head of a cartoonist because they were "offended" (boo hoo) have anything to do with your attempted summary of my beliefs? Are you trying to swing to another subject?
No...I was commenting on what Aaron said. (BTW, I am curious...do you think that democracy is impossible, without US interference? Was Chavez elected in Venezuala under a democratic process? I know...off-topic..but I was wondering if you use the same "logic" as defining "freedom")

Quote:
By the way, US domination does not mean firmly under US military rule, nor does US interference mean that freedom exists - it (freedom) exists because the US exists, because she 'dominates' the world.
So, what's the difference btw US domination, and US military occupation? Or, is there any?
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Old 02-17-2006, 03:08 PM   #50
Hogan
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Re: Cheney's Hunting Incident

Quote:
Neil Mick wrote:
...I am curious...do you think that democracy is impossible, without US interference?
So, you asking that for democracy to succeed, you need interference by the US ? No, you don't. But you do need for the US to exist in the world. We are the 'arsenal of democracy', the 'last best hope', etc....

Quote:
Was Chavez elected in Venezuala under a democratic process?
Don't know enough about the election set-up down there.

Quote:
So, what's the difference btw US domination, and US military occupation? Or, is there any?
Yes, there is. US dominates the world economy, but we don't militarily occupy the world. I mean, really, US dominates the world, no ? But do we militarily occupy all the countries ? No. Those cute Frenchies always complain about how they may be dominated by US culture soon if they don't do something about it, but have we occupied France anytime recently ? No. Is there ANY country that can really dominate us economically (I'm not talking about certain parts - I know US is behind here and there; I'm talking in general - we do have the biggest economy), or militarily ? (Yes the US may lose a battle here and there, but is there any countries military out there that can surpass our equipment or training ? No). We also dominate politically - look how many people complain that we run the UN, or at least the Western Hemisphere or Europe. We also dominate is resource use - is that good or bad, I don't know. Domination doesn't just mean under the thumb of the military.
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