Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-04-2005, 03:38 AM   #26
Paul
Location: Edinburgh
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 46
Scotland
Offline
Fitness and aikido

I never said that every class should involve exhaustion. Just some of them. If your class is challenging you physically then you may be being pushed cardio terms any how. I find it disappointing that you would avoid experiencing a particular side of aikido. Why would you avoid it? Pascals wager comes to mind.

Excuse my ignorance but what is YMMV?

Regards Paul

Regards Paul Finn
Edinburgh
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 04:40 AM   #27
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 715
Offline
Re: Fitness and aikido

I didn't say once every class. I mean that every now and then you need to be pushed to your physical limits.

It helps you know them. It helps you be healthier. It is good for your body.

ymmv means 'your mileage may vary' ie people with different experience may have different thoughts on the subject.

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 05:29 AM   #28
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Fitness and aikido

Interesting thread in that we've recently started putting more emphasis into upping the level of physical fitness needed to train for two reasons.

1. We'd noticed some of our mid-kyu grades were, to be frank, coasting and the general level of fitness was going down. While I'm up with the minimal effort, anything physical is easier to do with at least a competent level of fitness.

2. The type of beginner seems to have changed somewhat. By that I mean that most of the "old-timers" started aikido to only learn aikido, increasingly we're finding people who want the martial art to also act as part of their own fitness regime so we're responding to that requirement.

I haven't noticed any loss in "budo", but then again we're not turning the dojo into gym class, just upping the speed and intensity. Those who need to take a rest can and we ensure no-one pushes themselves too far.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 06:31 AM   #29
Mel Barker
Dojo: University of Louisville Aikido Club
Location: Louisville, KY
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 123
United_States
Offline
Re: Fitness and aikido

Quote:
Paul Finn wrote:
Excuse my ignorance but what is YMMV?

Regards Paul
Paul, I believe it means "Your Milage May Very".

Mel
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 10:14 AM   #30
Jon Sharp
Dojo: Bath Aikido Society
Location: The Westcountry, UK
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 10
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Fitness and aikido

When we're talking about raising cardiovascular levels here, it's surely not at the expense of training. It is not a case of substituting aikido training for a generic aerobic workout, more of a case of raising the intensity of your training to a higher level. I can't see why this should be considered as seperate from 'normal' training. Practising at a careful measured rate is all fine and good, but this level of dynamicism is not the complete form. Should we not be working towards a technical state where our techniques can be applied swiftly and powerfully, and consequently need to bring ourselves to the physical state suitable for applying and receiving these techniques.

Jon Sharp
Salisbury Aikido Club
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 10:41 AM   #31
jonreading
 
jonreading's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido South (formerly Emory Aikikai)
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,139
United_States
Offline
Re: Fitness and aikido

Physical fitness is important to complete health, just as much as mental and spiritual fitness. I expect my students to care for their health and maintain their bodies without instruction or corecion. I do not believe that students should be excluded from physical fitness because they are practicing aikido. I believe that everyone can practice aikido regardless of their health, but I do not condone that statement as a free pass for unhealthy people to ignore physical excercise.

Respect your body, maintain your health. Some students want more intensity, some less. My classes vary in intensity and I encourage everyone to try to keep up, even on the harder days. I personally run a quick military workout for about an hour before class. Physical conditioning will improve movement and flexibility, reduce injury, and increase stamina. Not to mention improve your overall physical condition (cholesterol, cardiovascular fitness, muscle strength, blood circulation, and other common problems).

Don't confuse rigourous training that is borderline pyscho with physical fitness. Fitness is part of training. The positive benefits of good fitness far out number any argument to avoid excercise.

The question may better be worded as, "Should we dedicate training time to physical conditioning?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 11:11 AM   #32
Jon Sharp
Dojo: Bath Aikido Society
Location: The Westcountry, UK
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 10
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Fitness and aikido

I'm tempted to say yes. Especially for aikido specific exercises. It would be interesting to run a poll on this.

Jon Sharp
Salisbury Aikido Club
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 11:31 AM   #33
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,999
Offline
Re: Fitness and aikido

I've noted the interest in a poll on this subject.

Here are two polls I've taken related to this subject:

How important is physical fitness for you in aikido? - 6/30/2001
http://www.aikiweb.com/polls/results.html?poll_id=66

How well does aikido alone meet your physical fitness needs? - 7/7/2001
http://www.aikiweb.com/polls/results.html?poll_id=67

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 12:30 PM   #34
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,339
Offline
Re: Fitness and aikido

[quote=Paul Finn]I never said that every class should involve exhaustion./QUOTE]
Hi, Paul, the line about lying on the mat panting being a good thing came from somebody else and I never implied/meant to imply that you are the one and only person I was responding to.

[quote=Paul Finn] I find it disappointing that you would avoid experiencing a particular side of aikido./QUOTE]
Um...can we have some perspective here on admitting we are talking about subjective issues and personal opinions? I have seen dojos where highly unsafe warmups were an integral part of what they do every day. I am sure they would find it disappointing that I avoid experiencing that particular side of aikido. I am equally sure that I don't consider those warmups an important or essential part of the experience of training in aikido.
Maybe it's being older and having been off the mat for surgeries/rehab, but I don't feel that I have to exceed my limits to find them. I know my limits. I train up to them and then I sit down if I have to.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 12:34 PM   #35
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,339
Offline
Re: Fitness and aikido

Quote:
Jon Sharp wrote:
Should we not be working towards a technical state where our techniques can be applied swiftly and powerfully, and consequently need to bring ourselves to the physical state suitable for applying and receiving these techniques.
I agree, Jon.
And I LOVE doing really fast, smooth stuff!
However from my admittedly limited experience taking ukemi from older and very experienced instructors, I'd say that "swift and powerful" does not necessarily require either powerful muscles or the kind of cv endurance needed to run races. Efficient use of breathing and relaxed extension, ability to judge intent and dynamic maai seem to count much more.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 12:57 PM   #36
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 715
Offline
Re: Fitness and aikido

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote:
Efficient use of breathing and relaxed extension, ability to judge intent and dynamic maai seem to count much more.
All of which are enhanced by a reasonable level of fitness.

imo, and I am sure many will differ but I don't mean it to seem untoward, a student should not be in charge of their own physical 'workout' on the mat. The instructor should be.

Certainly if someone is dizzy, faint or otherwise unwell - they should by all means sit down or sit out. Just because they are a bit tired, or indeed exhausted, they don't get to rest. It defeats part of the purpose.

And what happens if a student is pushed, properly, to their limits...over a period of 6 months what happens?

As has been said extreme fitness is not necessary for Aikido and I am not suggesting older people practice as vigorously as the younger ones - but it does enhance training to be fitter. It also shows others one of the so-called 'benefits' of Aikido training....that is health.

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2005, 10:32 AM   #37
theflyingheadbuttsuplex
Dojo: Aikido Institute Davis
Location: davis
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 63
United_States
Offline
Freaky! Re: Fitness and aikido

I don't know, but I think 50 pushups, 50 crunches, 50 seconds of the boat ( AAAHH THE BOAT! ) 50 half squats, 50 rolls and knee walking can be fairly taxing. I'll let you decide!

If there is no wind, row!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2005, 10:35 AM   #38
theflyingheadbuttsuplex
Dojo: Aikido Institute Davis
Location: davis
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 63
United_States
Offline
Re: Fitness and aikido

But if you really want to be stronger, you should take fitness into your own hands

If there is no wind, row!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2005, 07:04 PM   #39
Qatana
 
Qatana's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Petaluma, Petaluma,CA
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 834
Offline
Re: Fitness and aikido

One of my teachers is about 5'4", 75 years old. he has trained in aikido for over thirty-five years and last night told the class it was Because hedidn't push his body but learned to relax. He is still taking high breakfalls and can take on ukes three times his size and half his age and they don't know what hit them.
He also says aikido is what made him fit for waterskiing.
I can say that aikido is far less strenuous than ballet.I have to practice on my own to maintain a fitness level I am happy with, but have never needed to use my flexibility in the dojo. Good cardio levels are simply a good idea in general.

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2005, 08:10 PM   #40
Shipley
Dojo: UBC Okanagan Aikido Club
Location: Kelowna
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 94
Canada
Offline
Re: Fitness and aikido

I'm finding the concept that the instructor is responsible for the students' physical fitness to be interesting. As a student I always considered the intensity of my training to be my responsibility, and if I was huffing and puffing during keiko I got out to do more exercise outside of the dojo. As an instructor if a student is clearly coasting I will make it clear to him/her that I noticed and don't approve, but beyond that I consider it my responsibility to provide a good example, and their responsibility to follow it.

I take the setting an good example seriously by training hard and getting more exercise and stretching time outside of keiko. I do also, however, believe strongly that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Students need to take responsibility of their own training.

All of course, IMHO.

Paul
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2005, 10:05 PM   #41
Jeanne Shepard
 
Jeanne Shepard's Avatar
Dojo: Puget Sound Aikikai
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 351
Offline
Re: Fitness and aikido

Quote:
Paul Finn wrote:

I find it incredible that a horse will run until it drops dead why why has man lost this spirit?

Umm, maybe because humans are smarter than horses?

Jeanne
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 01:46 AM   #42
Anat Amitay
Dojo: Nes- Ziona, "the red house"
Location: Israel
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 137
Israel
Offline
Re: Fitness and aikido

Just thought this could be fitting to what was written before:

If you have run with men on foot and they have worn you out,
How can you compete with the horses? (Jeremiah 12:5)

enjoy training!
Anat
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO Khaled General 155 12-16-2013 08:24 AM
?? Exaggeration in Aikido ?? Roy General 305 03-30-2006 12:34 PM
Aikido And Self- Defense bratzo_barrena General 25 11-23-2005 12:49 PM
Fitness supplement to Aikido: personal trainers ikkainogakusei Training 0 06-10-2003 03:50 PM
Aikido and Fitness handyandy Training 6 08-23-2000 04:52 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:49 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2018 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2018 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate