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Old 10-09-2004, 04:21 PM   #26
Yokaze
 
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Re: Why does this keep happening?

See... I never understood the need to talk at all during training, unless the partner is one who admits to not having the first idea of how to execute the technique (such as a first-time student). For the most part, I just find a way to resist that could be fixed by the mistake in form that I see, and have them keep trying until they figure it out on their own. The only words I say are words of encouragement, getting them to try again.

I feel it's much less patronizing that way, and makes for much more effective learning.

"The only true victory is victory over oneself."

Rob Cunningham
3rd Kyu

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Old 10-09-2004, 07:50 PM   #27
Nick P.
 
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Re: Why does this keep happening?

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
Hi Nick,

It sounds like you needed a sounding board and I guess you got it. Thanks for the post...I got a chance to think about some stuff I hadn't really thought about before and I appreciate that.

...and next time I am in Montreal...

cheers,

--Michael
Michael,

I would be honored if you came and stayed with me in my home if ever you are in Montreal. Always welcome!

But I may be back if Japan this winter for my Shodan test before that; if I am, I will look you up in Tokyo!

Quote:
Rob Cunningham wrote:
See... I never understood the need to talk at all during training, unless the partner is one who admits to not having the first idea of how to execute the technique (such as a first-time student). For the most part, I just find a way to resist that could be fixed by the mistake in form that I see, and have them keep trying until they figure it out on their own. The only words I say are words of encouragement, getting them to try again.

I feel it's much less patronizing that way, and makes for much more effective learning.
I agree; little is gained in talking, and usually it just complicates things.

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Old 10-09-2004, 11:53 PM   #28
disabledaccount
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Re: Why does this keep happening?

There came a time in my training when my Sensei started to take issue with me when a junior I was working with performed a technique incorrectly. I quickly learned that in my dojo, Sempai are expected to assist their juniors in learning correct technique. I understand that not every dojo keeps this tradition, and of course it shows poor manners to take on this responsibility without the instructor's permission.

However, if my seniors weren't quick to point out possible solutions to my mistakes, my training would definitely suffer. I'm grateful for the feedback.
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Old 10-10-2004, 04:47 AM   #29
villrg0a
 
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Re: Why does this keep happening?

For some reason, this thread is partly related to another thread I started regarding monthly dues.

If he acts this way everytime, IMHO then he has an ego problem - a feeling of being the best among others.
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Old 10-10-2004, 11:18 AM   #30
SeiserL
 
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Re: Why does this keep happening?

IMHO, what we may be talking about here and in training is the flexibility of the internal map we create to represent the way things are done. Some people are rigid, so they always try to do it the same old way. Others are more flexible and adapt to the situation, intent, and context.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 10-10-2004, 05:15 PM   #31
Lan Powers
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Re: Why does this keep happening?

Just as an aside, I am training in a dojo where "feedback" is encouraged. (Never trained anywhere else more than occasional visits) It seems almost a dis-service to your partner, to NOT share what your reaction to the technique is. Tell me please, I want to learn.
I know, I know, it isn't the traditional way, but I believe it would be a much longer, and ultimately more lonely road on this journey of ours (Sheesh, but you KNOW what I mean)
if you have to do it in silence.
It may be cool, (but it doesn't seem like it to me)
After all.... what could be more fun than the A-HA! moment? (c'mon, don't keep it all for just you)
Just an observation..to each his own.
Lan

Play nice, practice hard, but remember, this is a MARTIAL art!
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Old 10-10-2004, 08:02 PM   #32
Jeanne Shepard
 
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Re: Why does this keep happening?

I was at a camp this weekend and training with a newbie. I asked him how long he'd been training and he said "Ive been dabbling with it for about a year." He seemed pretty new, being very stiff, especially in his ukemi. Anyway, we were doing a very subtle technique involving dropping our weight and drawing uke off his back foot to do ikkyo. He informed me that, since I wasn't succeeding in getting him off his back foot he was resisting to help me learn how to do it. Since he was getting me off my back foot, obviously he "had" it. I was a bit dumbfounded by this, since there was alot he didn't know ( I had to tell him that the red tape on my shoulder meant an injury), but, after some thought, I decided to tell him that I was moving because I was better at following. He did shut up after that. It occurred to me that he wasn't much of a credit to his dojo.

Jeanne
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Old 10-10-2004, 08:40 PM   #33
maikerus
Dojo: Roppongi Yoshinkan Aikido / Roppongi, Tokyo, Japan
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Re: Why does this keep happening?

Quote:
Jeanne Shepard wrote:
since there was alot he didn't know ( I had to tell him that the red tape on my shoulder meant an injury)
Hmmm...I've actually never heard of this. Is it common?

When we train with a minor injury we tell our partner, but I've never known anyone to mark it somehow.

I actually don't know if I think this is a good idea or not since I come from the school of train 100% or don't train at all. Even the "telling of an injury" is a bit of a struggle with my training ideals, but one I've basically accepted. I guess it would be the same thing.

Anyway...is it a common way of letting others know that you have an injury? What other ways are there?

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 10-10-2004, 08:46 PM   #34
maikerus
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Re: Why does this keep happening?

Quote:
Nick Pittson wrote:
But I may be back if Japan this winter for my Shodan test before that; if I am, I will look you up in Tokyo!
Nick...definately look me up. I'm going to back to Canada for a couple of weeks over Christmas (not Montreal...I'm going to Nova Scotia - anybody here from Lunenburg?) but I'll be in Tokyo for most of the winter.

cheers,

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 10-10-2004, 08:52 PM   #35
PeterR
 
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Re: Why does this keep happening?

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
Nick...definately look me up. I'm going to back to Canada for a couple of weeks over Christmas (not Montreal...I'm going to Nova Scotia - anybody here from Lunenburg?) but I'll be in Tokyo for most of the winter.
My parents are in Halifax but I think we are more likely to run into each other here.

By the by - if Simon hasn't contacted you yet - he will over the next couple of days.

Peter R.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 10-10-2004, 09:05 PM   #36
GaiaM
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Re: Why does this keep happening?

red tape or a red ribbon is a common way to make your partners aware of an injury.

One of my favorite things about aikido is that people of all abilities and fitness levels can train. I enjoy training "all out" and love it when there are others to take it to this level with me, but I also enjoy training with people who might have an injury or sore joints or some other physical difficulty. IMO, the more people doing aikido the better and if we can help everyone feel comfortable training that's great. We have an older gentleman in our dojo who ends up sitting out about half of most classes because he gets winded, but he comes almost every day and it is great for him and for us.

Gaia

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Gaia Marrs
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Old 10-10-2004, 09:23 PM   #37
maikerus
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Re: Why does this keep happening?

Thanks Gaia,

I wonder if this is a purely American phenomona or perhaps one of the North American Aikido federations that have set this up. I haven't seen it in Canada or Japan, but I train mostly in IYAF and other Yoshinkan dojos.

As you say, its great to be able to train with people of all abilities and physical difficulties, but it strikes me that if your injury is bad enough to mark it with red tape or a ribbon, it might be bad enough to take some training time out to heal.

After all, mitori geiko can be really good training and if it gives you that extra time to let the damage that has been done to your body go away, that probably would be a good thing.

I think this is a little different from your older gentleman who sits out half a class since that is due to physical ability rather than injury. I admire his spirit, though. We had some similar people in hombu who came every day and my respect for their committment and spirit knows no bounds. I hope that I'll be able to be as committed in my later years.

Hmmm...I seem to have taken us off thread. Sorry about that, but its good to know about this red tape thing.

cheers,

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 10-15-2004, 01:44 PM   #38
Nick P.
 
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Re: Why does this keep happening?

Update: Wednesday's practice

I do not know if anyone is still watching/reading this thread, but here goes.

It was my turn to teach class on Wednesday night, and of course none of the more skilled regulars were there. Of course, my new friend was, as well as 1 brand-spanking-new person.

Did my friend correct me again? Yes, but not using words, just the odd motion that seemed to say "See? I could still get you, you left me this hole." or some such. I dropped my center, and gave him no more holes.

We did shiho-nage together, and it was good; fast and flowing, but we still have to get used to each other. In time.

I even used him to demonstrate a point to the class; I was uke, and I was trying to show how uke must balance following nage without simply being a wet noodle and following nage no matter what. I also emphasized how uke should not stop the technique, no matter how awful. I wonder if get got the point.

So, there you have it; I think we have reached a slightly tense yet functioning understating of each other. No one ever said Aikido would be easy. Or as I like to say "It's not called Ea-Sy-Do. It's called Ai-Ki-Do". I was originally referring to technique.....

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Old 11-05-2004, 02:12 PM   #39
Nick P.
 
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Re: Why does this keep happening?

Update: He has not come back for a couple of weeks, and has not filled in the registration form.

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Old 11-05-2004, 07:56 PM   #40
Janet Rosen
 
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Re: Why does this keep happening?

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
As you say, its great to be able to train with people of all abilities and physical difficulties, but it strikes me that if your injury is bad enough to mark it with red tape or a ribbon, it might be bad enough to take some training time out to heal.
l
As someone who trains with a chronic injury that, if aggravated, will create enormous pain and a new acute injury: it is essential that there be a visual reminder for each and every person on the mat. If I waited for it to heal, I'd never do aikido again. That is neither desirable nor necessary.

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 11-05-2004, 09:16 PM   #41
maikerus
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Re: Why does this keep happening?

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote:
As someone who trains with a chronic injury that, if aggravated, will create enormous pain and a new acute injury: it is essential that there be a visual reminder for each and every person on the mat. If I waited for it to heal, I'd never do aikido again. That is neither desirable nor necessary.
Janet,

I definately see your point. Thanks for putting it in perspective.

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 11-08-2004, 10:32 AM   #42
jester
 
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Re: Why does this keep happening?

We always pair up with the highest rank training the lowest rank, so everyone is paired with a higher ranked student. He/she teaches the lower rank, while the main instructor oversees everyone.

I don't think, in our dojo, I've ever seen 2 white belts work with each other. So there is a definite teacher, and student relationship. I like to talk and explain what is happening when I'm with a lower ranked student. I think people learn better when there is immediate feedback.
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