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Old 12-04-2002, 05:45 PM   #26
Nacho_mx
Dojo: Federación Mexicana de Aikido
Location: Mexico City
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 188
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I think over 6th dan things get somewhat political.
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Old 12-04-2002, 11:40 PM   #27
Edward
Location: Bangkok
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 803
Thailand
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Quote:
mark johnston (mj) wrote:
In Judo, they set a date for examinations and everyone goes. From white to 4th dan. They all pay the same. About £10/$15.

Upwards of 5th dan are awarded without examination. Gratis.

(With necessary requirements such as having been a national coach etc)

My own impression has been mainly all over 5th dan gradings in most arts are political.
Judo is now an international sport governed by national federations and organizations and sponsored by companies same as any other sport. Dan gradings do not come from Kodokan dojo, but are issued locally by the local federations (up to a certain level, after which I believe it is the International Judo Federation which gives the grades). Not all judokas get paid, but most of them get free gis and other equipment, and their training is sponsored by their government. My information might be slightly out dated since I stopped Judo 8 years ago. I haven't seen sofar publicity stickers on the gis of the aikikai shihans during demonstrations. And when I will start to see hombu making so much profit from sponsorship and advertising, I will start a petition to make dan rankings free of charge

On the other hand, I agree that the higher the rank, the more politics are involved, not only in martial arts, but in companies and corporations, schools and universities, you name it.

Last edited by Edward : 12-04-2002 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 12-04-2002, 11:42 PM   #28
Edward
Location: Bangkok
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Thailand
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This issue reminds me of Shioda Sensei's words about our age where students want to practice but do not want to pay their dues. Sad epoch!
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Old 12-05-2002, 06:50 AM   #29
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
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True, I can't admit to liking the commercialism that has risen in the last 15/20 years in judo.

But 'open' gradings, where you just turn up, show your licence and do your thing is a far cry from, basically, the nepotism that is virulent in many other arts.

To stay on topic I still have to question the huge amounts of money being mentioned here. (The factual ones, not the estimates)

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Old 12-05-2002, 11:12 AM   #30
Ray Kissane
Dojo: Nihon Goshin Aikido
Location: Middletown NY
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 24
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Quote:
Edward Karaa (Edward) wrote:
Hehehehe, inflammatory comments about our headquarters coming from our brothers at the nihon goshin ""aikido"" (a mixture of karate, judo, daito ryu, kobudo and esoteric arts according to their official website). How much does your organization charge for dan ranks?
I am not trying to make inflammatory statements. In my style we have a one time fee of $45 that is paid on initial enrollment that is to cover the cost for all of your certificates for as long as you stay in the system. There are no testing fees.

I based my earlier statement on other styles of MA that I have done and what their requirements was at that time for Dan ranking. They were similar to what NGA does.

My point was that their are several people that sell rank with out regard to abilities in the MA. Is this similar? In a small way but hopefully the person has the compentance for the ranking they attain. We all know of people who do not and are still promoted while others have not been promoted.

All in all it still is alot of money.

Ray Kissane
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Old 12-05-2002, 04:14 PM   #31
henry brown
 
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Dojo: Soseikan, Worth IL
Location: Chicago suburbs
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I think if you just started at the dojo, it is hardly fair for the senior students to ask you to donate, unless it is on a pro-rated scale. You've been there for a couple of weeks? Then give them $5. The students who have been there the longest and had the most benefit from the sensei should pay the most.
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Old 12-05-2002, 09:42 PM   #32
JW
 
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Location: San Diego CA USA
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This is kind of weird: a lot of people are debating whether students SHOULD pay for their shihan's test, or they are defending the idea that voluntary contributions are good, nice things..

But nobody seems to think that this particular situation is different. Check this out:

4 guys decide that they will be the owners of the dojo. (ASIDE from their big, profitable day jobs.) Every month they absorb the students' dues. THEY GET TO KEEP IT! After dojo expenses are paid, the money goes to.. well just to them. ..to spend on whatever it is they spend their big salaries on too.

AND THEN: an opportunity comes for THE DOJO (as in "the family") to help the sensei pay for his testing fee. Welllllll....... what about all the money everyone HAD been paying all this time? It was supposed to pay for the service of teaching the art, right, so maybe that would be a good source to take money from to help the sensei with his test. Oh but wait those dollars are all in someone's personal account already. So now, everybody contributes AGAIN.

I suppose you guys will say hey dues are dues and this is something else on top of that. Yes of course that is true, and I agree, PROVIDED THAT the dues all went to the upkeep of the dojo. I just think it is kind of bad that these owner guys thought, "hey, wouldn't it be nice for everyone to be generous for the sensei right now," although in fact they had NOT been generous for so long in the past.

But, this is a business, not a collective, and they're the owners so they have this right.
--JW

Last edited by JW : 12-05-2002 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 12-05-2002, 10:04 PM   #33
Nacho_mx
Dojo: Federación Mexicana de Aikido
Location: Mexico City
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 188
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It´s so easy to assume things from afar, what makes you think they are making a profit? Aikido is not a very good business here in Mexico (unlike, say taekwondo schools, they´re in the money!).
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Old 12-05-2002, 10:34 PM   #34
JW
 
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Well yes I can understand that. From my understanding of how expensive it is to run a dojo, it is really hard for me to imagine profit from a dojo, myself. Then again aikiweb forums are how I found out there are dojos that can afford a monthly fee of $0 per student.

The reason for my above post about profit:

the original post said that these 4 people are wealthy and that there is indeed profit from the dojo.

"They have a day job(and a very profitable one i would say!)...the Dojo it's just an "extra" income "

Although the post does say that this isn't for sure.

--JW
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Old 12-08-2002, 01:51 AM   #35
Chavo
Dojo: Aikido Mty
Location: Monterrey, N.L.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 4
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Quote:
henry brown wrote:
I think if you just started at the dojo, it is hardly fair for the senior students to ask you to donate, unless it is on a pro-rated scale. You've been there for a couple of weeks? Then give them $5. The students who have been there the longest and had the most benefit from the sensei should pay the most.
Sounds reasonable....and fair like you just said. I haven´t talked with any of the co-owners about this, but I'll do it....let's see what they think about it. Thanks for the idea.

Chavo R.
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Old 12-09-2002, 11:11 AM   #36
fullerfury
Dojo: North County Aikikai
Location: San Marcos, CA
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 72
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Why not hold a weekend seminar to raise the necessary funds for your instructor's promotion to 5th dan. This way the students can chip in and show their support by attending the seminar and get something in return.
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Old 12-12-2002, 03:19 AM   #37
gi_grrl
Dojo: Institute of Aikido Australia
Location: Perth
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 48
Australia
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Quote:
Edward Karaa (Edward) wrote:
Every dojo charges fees for grading exams and rank certificates.
For the record, My Sensei (6th dan) takes no payment for teaching or grading. As a result, his dan grades also teach without payment. Annual fees cover the hire of the hall in which we train. Personally, given my experience of learning aikido, unless someone were teaching fulltime, why would they want to earn money from it? It's the love of the art and ongoing enjoyment of teaching that should be the drivers.

I also think that (nice as it may be) having a certificate from the Hombu dojo would always mean less to me than acquiring the skills required for a higher ranking.
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Old 12-12-2002, 09:57 AM   #38
MattRice
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Oct 2002
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nobody get's paid at our dojo, and the profits, if any, go into the dojo account to pay the bills like rent,electric,heat,tubes for the flourescent lights, wood for the new mat frame etc etc.

Again, it's my pleasure to help however I can.
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