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Old 12-23-2010, 01:09 AM   #26
Amassus
 
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Confused? Yes I felt very confused, and often, in my first few years of training. I felt that the martial art challenged me more mentally than physically in those early years.
Be patient with yourself and just enjoy it moment to moment.

Yours in training.
Dean.

"flows like water, reflects like a mirror, and responds like an echo." Chaung-tse
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Old 12-23-2010, 05:30 AM   #27
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Thank you for your replies.

Yea, i'm confused... It's normal.

Haha, it's so cool, i have to totally re-wire my brain about body movement, learning to sit, walk, turn, jump, roll and everything again in a different manner. I love it. And yesterdays class really did a lot, i have burning in muscles still, mainly legs, lover back and shoulders. I should do little stretching.

It's not actual pain, but burning, it means development. I think Aikido will work wonders on my health, it reminds me of swimming, movent comes from whole body, not just limbs and stuff..

Am i right that in Aikido movements are way more "whole" than in some other budo styles?

Hmm, next class will be at Tuesday, i think i'll practice posture and movement today/tomorrow... I'd like to do some ukemi too, but theres not muh space here... Hehe, maybe i go outside and do it the snow. That would be some exercise, almost half a meter snow, could give nice resistance.
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Old 12-23-2010, 06:20 AM   #28
lbb
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Quote:
Lari Hammarberg wrote: View Post
Am i right that in Aikido movements are way more "whole" than in some other budo styles?
No.

You're enthusiastic about your new activity after one class, and that's great. Just don't go completely overboard in thinking it's the fount of all knowledge, the one true way, the holy Grail, etc. Experience aikido as it is, with all its imperfections and drawbacks as well as its strengths and benefits -- don't seek to make it into "the best". Enthusiastic newcomers who fervently believe that aikido is the answer to everything usually quit soon when they find out that it isn't.
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Old 12-23-2010, 08:40 AM   #29
Lari Hammarberg
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
No.

You're enthusiastic about your new activity after one class, and that's great. Just don't go completely overboard in thinking it's the fount of all knowledge, the one true way, the holy Grail, etc. Experience aikido as it is, with all its imperfections and drawbacks as well as its strengths and benefits -- don't seek to make it into "the best". Enthusiastic newcomers who fervently believe that aikido is the answer to everything usually quit soon when they find out that it isn't.
I never i said i know anything yet.. =) That was just my impression at the moment.
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:32 PM   #30
Lari Hammarberg
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Oh, about me going completely overboard, sorry for that, i'm like that when i pick something new. Love at first sight so to speak.

Mary, you sound little bitter?Seen too many enthusiastic beginners quit before anything really even starts?
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Old 12-23-2010, 10:14 PM   #31
tim evans
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Quote:
Lari Hammarberg wrote: View Post
Oh, about me going completely overboard, sorry for that, i'm like that when i pick something new. Love at first sight so to speak.

Mary, you sound little bitter?Seen too many enthusiastic beginners quit before anything really even starts?
lari post whatever aikido question you want theres knoledgeable people on this site who understand beginners questions.
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Old 12-24-2010, 05:47 AM   #32
Shadowfax
 
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

As my sensei has often said to me...

Relax.

Oh and he also always says to beginners, "it's your job to be confused"

Just train.

Mary might come of a little bitter but she has a point. Even in my short aikido career Ive seen a number of people come in with the same high excitement who vanished within a few weeks or months. Try to relax and just approach your classes with a totally empty cup. Don't over think it.

Ugh rolling took me forever to get the hang of. I kept hurting myself doing back rolls for the first couple of months. Lots and lots of very painful mornings after a class....but it was all worth it.
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Old 12-24-2010, 06:54 AM   #33
Lari Hammarberg
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

I'll take it easy.

I've noticed, many really know what they are talking about. And it seems there's many with several decades of experecience. I'm honoured to be in company of such people.

Yea, the rolling, hurts like hell... I noticed it's my shoulders which seem to hit the floor/gound too much. I did some forward rolling yeaterday outside, there's snow, so i was easily able to do it from fully standing position. Few steps of running and then roll. (We have noce flat backyard and snow made it soft enough.) And it worked quite well. But my shoulders are little bit hurt now. I guess it's the "stiff as a board" start which is doing this. Well, practice, practice and some more practice.

I dont want to even try to back side rolls my self, i want sensei to show me in detail how it should be done.

About enthusiasm, well it depends on person how it goes. I usually DO what i start. I've been drumming/playing in bands now for 16 years, that's one thing i'm really serious with, i love it and had put some extensive work on my technique and feel. I would say that less than 30% of all drummers ever play on a published demo, 5% from those play on actual full lenght album... And me & band are just starting to make our 3rd CD.

I've been interested in Aikido for some time and now it's time to actually start doing stuff and practicing. I'm very serious about this. It might not show behing my burning enthusiasm though.
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Old 12-25-2010, 07:21 PM   #34
lbb
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Quote:
Lari Hammarberg wrote: View Post
Mary, you sound little bitter?Seen too many enthusiastic beginners quit before anything really even starts?
"Bitter" isn't the right word for it; why would I feel bitter about something that really doesn't affect me? The majority of people who try aikido (or any other martial art) just don't last that long, that's all. I don't have the numbers to back it up, but it seems to me like this is especially true of the most enthusiastic beginners. I think the truth is that aikido can do all kinds of wonderful things for people, but the experience of training in aikido doesn't feel wonderful all the time -- in fact, if we're being honest, I think most of us would say that the wonderful moments are occasional rather than common (and for the rest, well, they may be using a pretty relaxed standard of "wonderful"...but that's the subject of another discussion). That feeling of epiphany is wonderful, and people are motivated to chase it, but aikido training isn't a constant sequence of peak experiences. A lot of people who loved aikido at first quit because of this. It's too bad, and there's probably no point in pulling these people's coats, but I assure you, it's not "bitterness" that makes me do it. But you think that if you like. And, you're welcome.

I don't think there is any harm in setting moderate expectations for yourself and your aikido experiences. If your experience in the art exceeds them, great -- I don't know anyone who's disappointed if an experience exceeds their expectations. It's when people go the other way that they end up being disappointed. Aikido is fine as it is. It doesn't have to be the grand ultimate martial art, or a path to enlightenment, or the world's best form of exercise, or the one true way to cosmic harmony. It's got plenty of imperfections, plenty of flaws and drama. That's okay. It doesn't have to be perfect -- I don't need it to be. I guess for me it's just one of many tools that, when used properly, bring me a little closer to where I want to be, bit by bit, day by day. I have no expectations of arrival. Bit by bit and day by day is quite enough.
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Old 12-25-2010, 08:09 PM   #35
RED
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Quote:
Lari Hammarberg wrote: View Post
Oh, about me going completely overboard, sorry for that, i'm like that when i pick something new. Love at first sight so to speak.

Mary, you sound little bitter?Seen too many enthusiastic beginners quit before anything really even starts?
I've seen enthusiastic beginners quit. I've seen not-so enthusiastic beginners quit too. They are on par with each other actually in my personal experience.
However, I've never seen some one who's been in the art 10-20+ years who wasn't in love with Aikido. Every high ranked Aikidoka I've had the pleasure to talk to and know has told me insane stories of sneaking off to train, or what not. Even my own teacher told me about them quitting their career to go to New York Aikikai, absolutely alone, to become a student while still in the low kyu ranks.

Enthusiastic beginners do some times burn out. But not-so enthusiastic hobbyists tend to quit, or stagnate in the community.
So be as enthusiastic as you want, not hurting anyone.

MM
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Old 12-25-2010, 09:30 PM   #36
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Well, Mary, i can guess where you are coming from.. It's ok to have somebody try to hold my enthusiasm back. Some times a small reality check is in order. Your post actually reminds me of a long term bandmate. He's the ne holding my enthusiasm back and i'm the one kicking his ass if he get's stuck to something for too long. So it's beneficial symbiosis of different kinds of minds. Maybe something like that will form in here too or in my dojo to be.

Do you guys and girls here know one thing about Finnish psyche?(sort of a clishee but still, mostly true.)

This ties with Japanese culture in a way... When Finns promise something, and want to accomplish something, they WILL do it, no matter what it takes. Sort of do, or die trying kind of thing. And i have been talking here about just anything that has came to my mind, with overflowing enthusiasm and excitement.

That enthusiasm and all my talk is a promise! A promise specially to myself and to everybody who reads this. I'm not going to talk the talk and then silently back away! No way. My future with seriously training myself into the art of Aikido is a done deal. I have my back against a wall within my mind and i'm going to be a man of my word.

Onegaishimasu! I'm ready, teach me!

(Don't mind typos, i'm using a sort of crappy laptop here...)
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Old 12-26-2010, 10:28 AM   #37
lbb
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Quote:
Lari Hammarberg wrote: View Post
Well, Mary, i can guess where you are coming from.. It's ok to have somebody try to hold my enthusiasm back.
I'm not trying to hold your enthusiasm back. You asked, "Am i right that in Aikido movements are way more "whole" than in some other budo styles?". I answered your question. The answer is no. I then made the point that it's fine to be enthusiastic, but not so fine to be unrealistic. And, really, now that I think about it, the two really have nothing to do with one another. In order to be enthusiastic, you don't need to abandon all practical considerations, or make grand declarations. I don't think that's what enthusiasm really means.

Quote:
Lari Hammarberg wrote: View Post
That enthusiasm and all my talk is a promise! A promise specially to myself and to everybody who reads this. I'm not going to talk the talk and then silently back away! No way. My future with seriously training myself into the art of Aikido is a done deal. I have my back against a wall within my mind and i'm going to be a man of my word.
But no one here has asked you for a promise, and no one here has a relationship with you where it makes sense for you to promise us anything.

I'm going to tell you a story about my own training. I have rheumatoid arthritis. When I have an attack of rheumatoid arthritis (called a flare-up), it attacks a joint: knee, shoulder, hip, wrist, elbow, finger. These attacks bring extreme pain (about as bad as a fracture or a dislocation...yes, I have experience to compare), extreme stiffness (where I can barely move a joint at all), pain to the touch, and sometimes very bad swelling. At the same time, it is critically important to keep moving, to force the joints through their full range of motion, because this helps to minimize permanent damage.

At the end of 2008, my arthritis was getting worse, attacks were more frequent, and I didn't know where it was all leading. I was still training, but so many days I had a significant challenge to deal with, a hand that couldn't close on its own, a knee that couldn't bend fully, you name it. At around the same time, someone (I forget who) started a thread on aikiweb titled something like "What are your New Year's resolutions?" People posted all kinds of goals, that they would test for this rank or master this technique. Well, when you don't know from one day to the next if you'll be able to walk, or to grip with a hand, or raise your arm above the shoulder, you learn very quickly not to make statements about what you will do. Your own body will make a liar out of you.

So I posted, not a resolution, but my goal for the coming year -- what I hoped to accomplish, and would do my best to accomplish. It was just this: to keep training. Just to keep training.

By the end of that next year, I came to understand that while "To keep training" doesn't look very impressive alongside promises to achieve a certain rank or spend so many hours per week training or master a technique, it is the most powerful and most ambitious goal that I can imagine for myself -- and it may be the biggest goal out there, period. And there is no wall at my back, or at yours, and that's important. There is nothing to stop either one of us from backing out, from quitting at any moment. Grand promises are the work of a moment; keeping a promise is something that happens from moment to moment, when no one is watching and offering praise and encouragement. We are not bound by any promise: every day, in every moment, we have to choose again. That's what makes it hard. That's what makes it worthwhile.
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Old 12-26-2010, 11:15 AM   #38
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

It was just an assumption, which i was wondering about. Thank you for correcting me.

And as i said, promise mainly for myself.. back against a wall, that was a metaphor. Hehe, rhymes nicely.

Hmm, interesting read, that must be really tough condition to live with.
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Old 12-26-2010, 05:28 PM   #39
Lari Hammarberg
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

How often do you guys and girls practice by the way? I asked about how much is ok and said i'm planning to practice three times/week for a start. I also read about a research, cant remember who did it but, the result was that three days/week is the most productive schedual. Four times or more make a little difference and it said 5 - 7 days/week ma be too much if the training is tough.. Not enough time for muscles to recover or something among those lines.

I'm just thinking how to manage my band practice, Aikido and all other activities so they dont interfere with each other too much... Luckily i have all the time in the world to put to anything i like. Something good about being unemployed...

I just though that 3 - 4 times/week would probably be good enough. i try to manage to always have one in between practice. Some kind of recovery time would be good to maintain.
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Old 12-26-2010, 05:33 PM   #40
Dieter Haffner
 
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

There was a poll in the year 2000 about the amount of training days.
You can find the results here: The Poll.
I guess this result will still be valid.
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Old 12-26-2010, 05:54 PM   #41
RED
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Quote:
Lari Hammarberg wrote: View Post
How often do you guys and girls practice by the way? I asked about how much is ok and said i'm planning to practice three times/week for a start. I also read about a research, cant remember who did it but, the result was that three days/week is the most productive schedual. Four times or more make a little difference and it said 5 - 7 days/week ma be too much if the training is tough.. Not enough time for muscles to recover or something among those lines.

I'm just thinking how to manage my band practice, Aikido and all other activities so they dont interfere with each other too much... Luckily i have all the time in the world to put to anything i like. Something good about being unemployed...

I just though that 3 - 4 times/week would probably be good enough. i try to manage to always have one in between practice. Some kind of recovery time would be good to maintain.
My opinion: train as often as you can, as much as you can,as long as you can, under the highest instruction you can find. (health permitting)
3-4 times a week sounds pretty steady for a beginner. As you progress, I'd suggest more often. I personally believe in training almost every day in some capacity, along side the "as often, as much as you can, for as long as you can" philosophy. Health permitting of course.
I understand how hard it is to ballance time. Since I started Aikido, I've had to ballance jobs, school schedules, socialization, family issues, a marriage, and health problems. What has worked for me is I put my mind to what hours in the day are non-negotiable, and devoted to Aikido, then I make the rest work around that. You'd be surprised how much time you can find in a day when you stop wasting time. lol

MM
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:21 PM   #42
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Thanks Dieter an Maggie.

Hmm, pin this dojo i'll be practicing with it's possible to have practice 5 times/week.. Well, i dunno, if i get the buslicence thing, it costs about 50€/month and then it's possible to travel for that month as many times as one wants. So that problem can be solved with not too much money put on it.

My timing is sort of bad because our band starts to album recordings soon and that is really time consuming job. Good thing is we have no real deadlines and nothing to horry about.
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:29 PM   #43
RED
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Quote:
Lari Hammarberg wrote: View Post
Thanks Dieter an Maggie.

Hmm, pin this dojo i'll be practicing with it's possible to have practice 5 times/week.. Well, i dunno, if i get the buslicence thing, it costs about 50/month and then it's possible to travel for that month as many times as one wants. So that problem can be solved with not too much money put on it.

My timing is sort of bad because our band starts to album recordings soon and that is really time consuming job. Good thing is we have no real deadlines and nothing to horry about.
You just started Aikido man. Be happy with your 3-4 days a week, it is steady for some one starting out. Let life work it self out in the mean time. Don't burn yourself out.

MM
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:40 PM   #44
Lari Hammarberg
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Hai.

I just like to think though things... 3 to 4 four times is realistic, easy to arrange and more than surely tough enough.
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Old 12-26-2010, 07:45 PM   #45
Andrew Macdonald
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

hi Lari

Can i just ask what did you mean by the aikido techniques are more 'whole' than other budo styles
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Old 12-26-2010, 08:06 PM   #46
Lari Hammarberg
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Quote:
Andrew Macdonald wrote: View Post
hi Lari

Can i just ask what did you mean by the aikido techniques are more 'whole' than other budo styles
Hello Andrew.

To avoid any arguing and giving false impressions i have to say this is just how i see things now, i'm a beginner, thus i dont hold a position to claim i'm right with this, so forgive me if my impression is someway wrong or biased, it's just my perception.

It was sort of a bad selection of words... And i meant the overall movement and how it looks like.

I find the movement, and execution of techniques in aikido to be very fluent, flowing and natural looking. And the difference between aikido and other styles of budo seems to be that in aikido this type of movement is learned from the day one and in other styles it seems to develop by time... and looking at masters of aikido and other arts, the difference between how it looks like gets narrower depending on how experienced or talented a person is. What i mean is moslty the footwork.

Its hard to explain what i mean, i dont yet have the knowledge and vocabulary to express this matter as it should be done...

I know that talking about matters like this as a total newbie might get some people pissed off big time. I hope it will not be the case. So if anybody feels offended, i apologise in advance.
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:46 AM   #47
Andrew Macdonald
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Hi Lari

No not pissed off at all, I am interested in all perception of aikido i just wanted a little clarification on what you meant. In martial circles whole could have a number of dofferent meanings

- whole body movement
- effective for combat
- covering combat and sirtual disciplines

and i am sure there are many other

yes aikido can look very natural and flowing (not so much when i am doing it) and there is a different in this to many other styles.
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Old 12-27-2010, 05:23 AM   #48
Lari Hammarberg
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Quote:
Andrew Macdonald wrote: View Post
Hi Lari

No not pissed off at all, I am interested in all perception of aikido i just wanted a little clarification on what you meant. In martial circles whole could have a number of dofferent meanings

- whole body movement
- effective for combat
- covering combat and sirtual disciplines

and i am sure there are many other

yes aikido can look very natural and flowing (not so much when i am doing it) and there is a different in this to many other styles.
Yea, i just wanted to make it clear to all that forum arguments about different perceptions of the same thing are purposeless..

I've noticed that this differenmce how it looks like gets narrower when watching real masters do their art.. With the exception of different techniques.
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Old 12-27-2010, 06:10 AM   #49
Shadowfax
 
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

My dojo offers classes 3 nights a week. two of those nights there are two one hour classes and the third is a single 90 minute class. The second hour on the two hour nights is for more advanced students and students are invited to those classes once sensei decides their ukemi is up to the more rigorous training. One of those hours is specifically set aside for weapons.

Anyway when I first started I could barely manage 1-2 days a week. Usually Sunday and Thursday. Partly due to my job and a lot due to the fact that I was in a LOT of pain for several days after each class.

After about two months I got in better shape, rearranged my work schedule and started being able to do the three days of beginner/open classes. And I think it was around 6 months when I started up in all 5 classes. I have not missed a class in almost a year now. Even attended them all when I had to sit out and watch due to a knee injury.

More recently I have been occasionally getting together with other dojo members for an extra night of open mat training. I would like to be able to train more but I have a horse that needs to be ridden once in a while too.
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Old 12-27-2010, 07:05 AM   #50
Lari Hammarberg
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Hello again Cherie and thanks for your reply.

Wish me luck, i happen to have practice in two consecutive days... Tomorrow with all the experienced guys + sensei, and wednesday in my town with smaller group.. (I think the sempai i've been in touch with is going to show up in both too.)

It's gonna be tough, after my first class, i had two days of quite severe pains in my legs and lower back. Good pain though, muscles burning and compaining sudden use.

So this is going to be my Aikido baptism big time, two days in a row. I don't know how to make it, but i will. Oh, did i mention tomorrows class is two hour thing. 1hour 30minutes of actual class and then 30 minutes of free time to use what ever useful way.
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