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Old 04-30-2010, 08:52 AM   #26
lbb
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Ron (empty your cup platitudes sound great...and sometimes are spot on...but I'm not yet convinced of that in this case)
If you're calling them "platitudes", then you are convinced. You just passed judgment on them and decided that they're meaningless and worthless.

When a beginner is advised to empty his or her cup, that isn't the same as saying that what they know is wrong or worthless. All it is, is saying that you need to set that body of knowledge aside for a time, and not try to see this new thing through those old filters. I can't see any reasonable objection to that. Of course a new style isn't going to make sense at first -- especially not if you're using your old set of rules as a basis of what makes sense. And, in fact, it's always possible that your new style is a load of crap, and it never will make any sense. But you'll never know if you can't suspend disbelief, so to speak...set aside what you "know" so that you can learn.

You know that old saying, "It ain't what you don't know that's the problem...it's what you know that just ain't so"? It's good advice. What a swimming-pool lifeguard "knows" about water dangers is just not so when you take him out of the pool and put him on whitewater...and if he clings to what he "knows", he'll be more in danger than someone who goes into that situation knowing that they don't know.
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Old 04-30-2010, 09:01 AM   #27
SeiserL
 
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

Many train with only self-development intent.
Some train with only martial intent.
Few train with both.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 04-30-2010, 09:02 AM   #28
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

Quote:
Daren Sims wrote: View Post
Aren't we all looking for core principles of aikido?
Not in my experience.. no, sorry. Some are looking for a group of like-minded individuals to engage in a pseudo-religious attempt at moving meditation that has nothing to do with Aikido or its principles, but that's just my knuckleheaded take on it. To me there is no understanding of the principles if one does not include the application of the principles, physical or otherwise. You don't learn the lessons of climbing the mountain by taking a helicopter to the top imho.

Quote:
Daren Sims wrote: View Post
... even the most knuckleheaded can see that Aikido offers something in addition to the skills / ability that they already have
True. But that is not the case in this thread - the OP went to the Aikido dojo to find something that he did not already have. The thing is that the dojo is not giving that to him based on this thread.

Quote:
Daren Sims wrote: View Post
and as such train quite contentedly alongside others who need to train long and hard for the day when they defeat a wet paper bag.
Again, that is not the case in this thread. The Aiki-spritualist in the OPs dojo is the one who could not train alongside the OP who only wanted an understanding of the martial context (if any) of his training.

Quote:
Daren Sims wrote: View Post
Everyone brings something to the party, and just a little patience may be needed before the candles are blown out and the gifts reveal themselves.
And sometimes you have to realize that what people have brought to this party will result in you paying 3 months in advance to be treated like an outcast because "This is a spiritual art! You have a very bad mindset, which is not the right one at all! You are thinking of violence!"

I think it is great that some people find spiritual enlightenment in their training. But if this is not what the student wants or is not enough for the student then it is the student's option to look elsewhere if they feel so inclined.

Best
LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
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Old 04-30-2010, 09:03 AM   #29
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
Many train with only self-development intent.
Some train with only martial intent.
Few train with both.
This is a very poignant and beautiful statement.

Thank you Sensei.

LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 04-30-2010, 09:03 AM   #30
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote: View Post
Personally, I think that Alberto represents the typical student who approaches Aikido after having already developed a solid foundation in another fighting style that does not use collusion as a training method.

I don't think it's a matter of him having a full cup per se, it is a matter of being realistic in ones expectations of the outcome of a particular practice method. He is looking for a training paradigm that teaches the core principles of Aikido while preserving the direct functionality of the techniques, tactics and strategies being taught.

There is nothing wrong with this unless there is a disconnect between the core principles and the direct functionality (i.e. application) of what he is being taught. I love it when boxers and strikers enter my dojo because often they can be counted on to not give away their centre and also strike on target. This challenges me to function at a certain level. It means that I must bring my understanding of Aikido principles to apply to these conditions of training which are not based on a collusive agreement.

Alberto needs to find a dojo that suits his needs or at a minimum a group from his dojo with common goals who are willing to train together to meet those needs.

I've had students who left our Shodokan dojo to move to other countries and have just stopped training because there was no Shodokan around and no other style gave them what they got from our training. More reason for us to expand our scope of influence I guess.

Just some thoughts.

LC
Larry,

I think you're only addressing the Alberto as uke perspective. I honestly don't disagree with you or him from this perspective.

What you aren't addressing is Alberto as nage. Alberto as nage seems to disagree with the learning methodology for everything he's shown. He doesn't see any benefit in slowing things down and having someone collude with him so that he can learn proper, safe and effective technique. I don't see how anyone, regardless of style, can agree with this or suggest that if he "keep searching" he's going to find what he's looking for.
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Old 04-30-2010, 09:17 AM   #31
Gorgeous George
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
Many train with only self-development intent.
Some train with only martial intent.
Few train with both.
I like this.
I used to fall into the first category, then i realised it was predicated on the second, so now i think i fall into the third.

Perhaps Alberto doesn't know how to take ukemi at high speed, so if nage matched his speed and applied the technique, he might get hurt?
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:02 AM   #32
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

Quote:
Alberto Italiano wrote: View Post
From the dojo.

In fact I paused and it came to my mind, as I scrambled to make a shionage with the pirouette and without managing to do it properly, the following sentence, which I made the "mistake" to voice: «Well, it's not only I can't make it, it's also a technique where in a real fight you risk of getting truly bad blows on your face, if for some reason it fails»

.
How are you doing shihonage? There is no reason that from yokomenuchi you should be in distance of a strike. If you are, you are doing it incorrectly.

How long have you been doing Aikido?
I wouldn't say you have a bad mind, but I would say you are eager. It is NOT wrong to think martially, it is wrong however to disrespect those who are taking time to teach you.
Instructor's devote their time and much of their life to teaching what they know. If you are not interested in what they know, then stop wasting your money. Constantly questioning teacher is the same as saying "you don't know what you are doing, even though I'm paying you money to teach me, I already know it all" Beware of that trap, you don't want to fall into disillusions that you already know what you are doing. Some questioning is healthy, but there is a line where it can be disrespectful.

Don't get me wrong, I believe you should train with the hope of martial effectiveness. But, you should not assume that you know what martial effectiveness is. You have instructor's I'm sure they are good teachers, and you should listen to them, and not argue with them. If they think you are worrying about fighting too much, take a step back, maybe you are worried too much about fighting, and too little about training!

I believe in martial effectiveness, but I'm not going to obsess every training day about a fight that might never happen. I'm going to instead focus on training, because it is a martial art, emphasis on the word "art".

But if you are truly in conflict with this school, then find a new one. There are lots of great schools out there. And I disagree with what was said to you...Aikido is a martial art.

Last edited by RED : 04-30-2010 at 10:16 AM.

MM
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Old 04-30-2010, 08:37 PM   #33
David Yap
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
Many train with only self-development intent.
Some train with only martial intent.
Few train with both.
True, sensei. Either a thinker or a fighter but few can call themselves martial artists.

Regards

David Y
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Old 04-30-2010, 09:25 PM   #34
Rob Watson
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

Have you tried the dojo search function here? Look for the ones closest to you then start at the highest ranked instructor and work your way down the list.

If you don't find what you are looking for in the first 5 dojo then maybe aikido is not what you think it is.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 04-30-2010, 09:36 PM   #35
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

I always train with Martial Effectiveness for the situation and context we are training in. How do you train any other way, or why would you? I don't see how you train without it personally.

Granted some may have more experience than others, thus those without much experience or skill may have a very "low" effectiveness, but none the less, it is as effective as they know how to be at that point in there training.

Furthermore, any instructor or experienced sempai worth his weight should be able to adequately demonstrate principle and also show various applications, tactics, etc and be able to show the spectrum of things and the consequences of action/no action.

From my experiences if his instructors are not adequately addressing what are actually very fair questions, then they either can't cause they don't have the teaching skill or experiences to do so, or they simply don't care too as they are too, too busy doing whatever it is that they do and feeling great about it!

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Old 04-30-2010, 09:46 PM   #36
Phil Ingram
 
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

Quote:
Alberto Italiano wrote: View Post
From the dojo.
The answer: no! It's a way to armonize yourself to feel good with yourself, not to fight.

.
What Utter rubbish
we have a saying in my dojo take the mind then the blance this gives the attacker somthing to think about while you do your technique.

All Aikido techinques work but most people do not take the mind what i mean by taking the mind is a strike and yes there are strikes in aikido

It like i have said in my other post
you have some people who follow the aiki way and others who go the Martial way you have to blend both for Aikido to be affective

If i was you mate i would find a diffrent dojo
good luck to you

Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought.
Matsuo Basho
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Old 05-01-2010, 02:53 AM   #37
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

Too many things in this thread :-)
I must choose one - though firstly I wish to thank you all for your insights and ideas - though a few may think (or seem inclined to think) that my points may be utterly contemptible, I find all the perspectives brought in here quite interesting instead. So I am really grateful to you all; I know you're not writing to me or for me, but for everybody and because you have a real passion for Aikido; however, I still feel I should say thank you for your contributions.

So, I shall focus on the idea that some in the dojo may be intentionally slowing down their techniques in order not to harm me (I am surprised that a guy with a boxing background can be considered so fragile - however let it be LOL).

Unfortunately, that's not the case. I wish it were. In fact if that would have been my illation, then maybe it would be worthless. But what to think when several times you hear black belts mumbling audibly "I am unable to do the technique on him" ? That's a corroboration (unsought for) that excludes they were intentionally downgrading their techniques in order to accommodate such a fragile beginner who could be maimed by their startling abilities.

So, you are probably left with two hypothesis only that seem thinkable:
1) That I am such a smart, terrific, glorious, amazing, powerful, uncontrollable, stunning, superb uke that most seniors can't make the techniques on me. Now, I can definitely rule out this option: firstly because I'd have serious problems considering myself such a skilled attacker, secondly because I intentionally slow down considerably myself: I am aware they must do a technique and it's not my goal to make it impossible for them: I oppose no active resistance (ie, for instance I never present a rigid arm), I simply move naturally without hanging there as a punching bag - and if you don't ground me I don't fall with complacency - this not for a matter of pride (I have been grounded several times when boxing and to me this possibility is simply natural) but because I think I would be injecting dangerous illusions in my partner if I would fall on purpose, making him/her think his/her technique is effective and could work facing a real threat.
2) That the training paradigm prevailing in most ki-dojos is unfit to make most seniors able for any combat even remotely close to a "real" situation (I agree with Mary Malmros that "real" is open to interpretation; so let's imagine for a moment that I say "water" and that by it we all mean the transparent substance that comes out from faucets and that we drink).

I am opting for this latter hypothesis, and I am simply terrified at the idea I may spend years on a dojo only to be left with this: a belt that has so high chances of being ineffectual in real combat (I feel that training in any martial art without that paradigm in mind is like studying medicine for 6 years without thinking it should prove effective on a real patient, even if you don't plan to practice as a doctor).

I don't know what should be considered responsible for this state of the art.
To be sure, I am not writing here in order to voice a problem of mine, but also because I hope this can be of any use in order to widen the training methods of dojos - because a mostly martially focused dojo can still include a mostly spiritually oriented pupil (one can forfeit martiality at any time, and be still compatible), yet a mostly spiritually oriented dojo can no longer include a mostly martially oriented pupil (one can't be given the martiality that the training methods have ejected nearly by statute, and this makes such a mindset immediately incompatible).

It is my hypothesis that the prevailing training methods must have something to do with this state of things in many dojos - however, this is something that can be appreciated only if there is agreement about the degree of effectiveness of ki-aikido in real situations; if we assume that this effectiveness is certainly there, then our training methods are perfect and I am only an annoying troublemaker who dares being unrespectful because he voices perplexities. If instead we doubt it is there, or we feel that in many cases it's not there, then we need to decide how we could improve our training methods.

To my eyes it is crystal clear that if every time we propose 4 or 5 techniques, and every time different ones (not infrequently with the openly stated intention that "otherwise it's boring"), and that are to recur once again only after months, we may be entertaining our pupils but it should be apparent (actually, quite patent) that the chances of making our pupils apprehend sloppy implementations are enormously increased.
It is my contention that we could take actions, now, to make these chances decrease immediately.

Last edited by Alberto_Italiano : 05-01-2010 at 03:07 AM.
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Old 05-01-2010, 03:14 AM   #38
Dazzler
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote: View Post
True. But that is not the case in this thread - the OP went to the Aikido dojo to find something that he did not already have. The thing is that the dojo is not giving that to him based on this thread.
...or the dojo is trying to give him something, but Alberto doesn't recognise it because the development methodology is different to that which he is accustomed.

Here we simply have one initial viewpoint to consider. without seeing the training for ourselves not one single poster can do anymore than offer an opinion based upon our personal experience.

Alberto can then read through and make decisions which MAY be helped by what is posted.

Caveat emptor .

Alberto - as a very much generalised view I see Ki Aikido as something starting with ki and becoming more martial over time (for some). A long road.

I see more traditional Aikido as starting from a more practical viewpoint and over time moving towards ki (for some).

Another long road.

Of course this is a huge generalisation with the intention of helping rather than rigidly classifying. Just a very loose model but maybe it helps.

Perhaps a more traditional style may be more you 'cup of tea'?

(but tip a bit out first ).

Regards

D
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Old 05-01-2010, 03:31 AM   #39
Alberto_Italiano
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

Quote:
Daren Sims wrote: View Post
Alberto - as a very much generalised view I see Ki Aikido as something starting with ki and becoming more martial over time (for some). A long road.

(...snip...)

Another long road.
Agreed.
One must not think that, since I am questioning training methods, I am not aware it's a long road.

I don't remember correctly the quote, but once Ezra Pound wrote (more or less) "the thought of what America could be if the classics were read more often takes the sleep away from me".

The thought of how easily a more martial attitude could be instantly accommodated by simple adjustments in ki-aikido prevailing training methods, and of how much this would benefit all (the spiritual and the martial both) keeps me wondering.

ps i managed to find the exact Ezra Pound quote:
http://www.pandalous.com/reader#p=--...assics_had_a--
http://www.fullposter.com/snippets.p...15#autoindex25

Last edited by Alberto_Italiano : 05-01-2010 at 03:37 AM.
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Old 05-01-2010, 04:19 AM   #40
Andrew Macdonald
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

The 2 sides os Aikido the martial and the spiritual must both be observed i guess, I read my original post and i came off with sounding like i didn't agree with spirituality at all. however i spend porition of each day in mediatation and have experience in taiji and qi gong.

I think the problem comes when people try to touch the spirtual sides of things without ever pushing their boundaries , in every case growth and development involves stress and discomfort in some way, if you choose your vechilcle of spiritual development to be aikido then you have to also accept the training methods and the stress that it offers

continually doing soft gentle strikes and never pushing yourself physically mentally or spiritually is like trying to become an Olympic gymnast by only practicing forward rolls
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Old 05-01-2010, 05:19 AM   #41
Mark Peckett
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

I used to practise with a guy who had a habit of deliberately stopping techniques. In aikido, anyone can do this: if the technique is kotegaeshi, tightening the relevant muscles and leaning away from the direction of the technique, adjusting the position of the foot. Of course, this aligned him perfectly for shiho-nage. What this meant was that I didn't get to practise kotegaeshi with him ... unless we were practising shiho-nage, in wihch case he would align his body, feet and muscles to prevent the technique happening, thereby creating the perfect conditions for kotegaeshi

This is one of the problems with aikido - as uke knows what technique is coming he can stop it, and then claim aikido doesn't work or isn't realistic. Uke has to give his body - this doesn't mean to fall on the floor when nage merely looks at him, but he has to provide a postive attack which will enable the technique to be practised.

At higher grades, when both participants are familiar with a range of techniques, it is then possible to practise henka waza without nage injuring uke. If a beginner uke presented a stiffened arm during practice of ikkyo and a more experienced nage slipped into irimi nage, for example, there is a danger that the beginner could get dumped on the floor on the back of his head, experience a sub-dural haematoma and die. I understand this is one of the most common causes of death within the aikido fraternity and is more commonly associated with beginners. We none of us would want this to happen.

Of course we want to try and create realism in the dojo, but bearing in mind that aikido techniques are developed from potentially fatal battlefield techniques, we don't want that much realism!
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Old 05-01-2010, 05:32 AM   #42
Alberto_Italiano
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

Quote:
Mark Peckett wrote: View Post

This is one of the problems with aikido - as uke knows what technique is coming he can stop it, and then claim aikido doesn't work or isn't realistic. Uke has to give his body - this doesn't mean to fall on the floor when nage merely looks at him, but he has to provide a postive attack which will enable the technique to be practised.

At higher grades, when both participants are familiar with a range of techniques, it is then possible to practise henka waza without nage injuring uke. If a beginner uke presented a stiffened arm during practice of ikkyo and a more experienced nage slipped into irimi nage, for example, there is a danger that the beginner could get dumped on the floor on the back of his head, experience a sub-dural haematoma and die. I understand this is one of the most common causes of death within the aikido fraternity and is more commonly associated with beginners. We none of us would want this to happen.

Of course we want to try and create realism in the dojo, but bearing in mind that aikido techniques are developed from potentially fatal battlefield techniques, we don't want that much realism!
Exactly. This is why we need a more dynamic training where uke can be experienced like a living entity and not like a puppet who is there to perform a preordained gesture.

I can land not one single ikkyo or shihonage in the dojo. I can land both ikkyos and shihonage when I train out of the dojo with a friend of mine. This precisely because he keeps moving as I fail one technique, and I keep my hands on him as I fail instead than giving up, so that i can follow his movements and accord/craft a possible further technique on his movements.

In ki dojos once a technique has failed, we have to restart. This brings to an endless string of failed techniques, until uke decides to accommodate you and decides to let you do your technique without any obstacle in the way.
Once, supposed to do shihonage, I faced shokomen with an ikkyo (unsuccessful); I was immediately stopped because "we're not doing ikkyo". I feel a better answer would have been: "his arm is opposing to your ikkyo, he is pushing upward - don't stop, but do shiohnage now!"

This type of realism has nothing to do with dying.
If we forfeit realism lest we die, because the only way to represent realism is that of the final insult, we'll never have any realism whatsoever.
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Old 05-01-2010, 07:30 AM   #43
C. David Henderson
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

I think you misread what Mark was saying.

David Henderson
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Old 05-01-2010, 07:55 AM   #44
James Davis
 
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

Paired kata seemed strange to me when I was hung up on the ideas of "winning" and "losing".

One of my sempai was kind enough to throw me a whuppin' and explain to me that blocking his technique only slowed down our training, and that I wouldn't be winning a prize for doing so.

Aikido class is practice. Aikido techniques can be pretty complicated stuff, especially to someone just starting out, and to not allow techniques to happen seriously hampers training. In my opinion, it's best to ask sensei for a few minutes of training with resistance if I'm "feelin' froggy", or to just save it for randori.

Every so often, I have new students that get hung up on the idea that they're experiencing successes when they stop others from completing their techniques. Occasionally, I'll call a senior student to the front and ask them to attack and resist when I respond. When this (VERY eager ) student resists the initial technique, I follow him and go to whatever technique seems prudent at the time. When he resists the second one, I continue blending with what he gives me until my students have seen an exchange that lasts maybe 10 seconds, ending with my student being thrown or tapping out.

I tell my class that there are two lessons that they can take away from this:

1: When something doesn't work in life, there is usually another option. It might not always be evident, but when it seems that you've failed or someone else is making things difficult for you, there's usually some other course of action that you can take instead of quitting.

2: Of all the techniques you just saw, there's one that you didn't get to see. You didn't get to see that first technique that I wanted to teach you. While what you just saw might have been a little entertaining, you didn't get to learn much. If he hadn't resisted, you'd probably be seeing a tenth repitition of that first technique and you'd be starting to get an idea on how it's done. My job is to teach you aikido, and I can't do that without repitition of the techniques so you have a chance to learn them. I'll tell you when we can play, but for now we need to study. We have to co-operate, or we're not going to get a lot done.

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 05-01-2010, 08:15 AM   #45
OwlMatt
 
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

I'm very much a novice in the world of aikido and the martial arts in general, but it seems to me that the spiritual benefits unique to the martial arts come from their "martialness". We learn to face our own fears, our own pain, and our own insecurities. We learn the value of peace by learning the consequences of violence. To think that we can get these spiritual benefits by learning aikido as meditative dance with no thought to martial application would be very naive on our part, I think.

No sensei at my dojo would scold a student for wanting to learn a technique in a realistic way, and any student who had problems with realism in practice would get a stern talking-to.
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:17 AM   #46
Mark Peckett
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

I continue to struggle with ikkyo after nearly thirty years of practice. I am grateful to all the aikidoka of all grades who practise with me as it gives me an opportunity to analyse my technique, work at it and make it better.
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Old 05-01-2010, 01:54 PM   #47
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

Alberto wrote:

Quote:
I am opting for this latter hypothesis, and I am simply terrified at the idea I may spend years on a dojo only to be left with this: a belt that has so high chances of being ineffectual in real combat (I feel that training in any martial art without that paradigm in mind is like studying medicine for 6 years without thinking it should prove effective on a real patient, even if you don't plan to practice as a doctor).
Even Doctors have a basis in fundamentals of biology, chemistry and anatomy before they ever perform surgery.

The act of surgery itself is actually pretty simple to do if you know all the steps and focused on them. You could teach someone how to do brain surgery over and over again in a short amount of time actually

Combatives works the same way. I can teach someone very quickly to be effective, however, if they want to understand the nature and breadth of martial arts it requires much more.

I think aikido and the study of martial physiology and kinesiology to be in much the same line.

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Old 05-01-2010, 01:58 PM   #48
RED
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

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Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Alberto wrote:

Even Doctors have a basis in fundamentals of biology, chemistry and anatomy before they ever perform surgery.

The act of surgery itself is actually pretty simple to do if you know all the steps and focused on them. You could teach someone how to do brain surgery over and over again in a short amount of time actually

Combatives works the same way. I can teach someone very quickly to be effective, however, if they want to understand the nature and breadth of martial arts it requires much more.

I think aikido and the study of martial physiology and kinesiology to be in much the same line.
I think you statement really is the difference between taking a martial art, and practicing a martial art.

MM
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Old 05-01-2010, 01:58 PM   #49
Alberto_Italiano
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

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James Davis, Jr. wrote: View Post

I follow him and go to whatever technique seems prudent at the time. When he resists the second one, I continue blending with what he gives me until my students have seen an exchange that lasts maybe 10 seconds, ending with my student being thrown or tapping out.
This is _precisely_ what would work for me. Doesn't matter it is frenzied. I need the _continuous_ action. No "stop and go". Continue blending, with uke that reacts naturally, and keeps moving (pushing, pulling, whatever) and doesn't accommodate me for the technique.

More than 10 seconds: the boundary, ideally, is standstill.
If I come to a standstill (ie: duh, what can i do now with an arm in this position?), that's when I would stop indeed and ask: what now, Sensei?

Over time, speed can be increased, and vigour on uke's part added.
The _simulation_ of a "real" confrontation, continuous and blending, if 'd grab a guy's arm.

Most ki-dojos doesn't seem to have any option for this learning style. One should have to ask, and then you're liable to be seen like some unorthodox freak of nature who can't learn with the time-honoured way of: "here it is this still demi-flaccid arm come grab it in the proper manner come do the technique if it fails I will pretend I fell or we just start over".

Last edited by Alberto_Italiano : 05-01-2010 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 05-01-2010, 02:06 PM   #50
RED
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Re: Criminal Minds On The Dojo?

One of the best experiences I can recall with a teaching style is Shibata Sensei. He has people attack him, and he just throws them any which way he feels is needed. Then he claps and tells you to train. Not much instruction other than you watching the way he moves. It is a really old way of teaching. You don''t ever stop to ask him questions about anything he did, or how he did it, and he gives no other instruction other than allowing you to watch his Aikido for a few minutes. Technically I can learn a lot like that.
But you got to watch out for him. He walks through the class and sort of throws people at random. It is very off putting to just get up and turn around, and there's Shibata! Throwing you... lol

MM
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