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Old 07-12-2006, 06:08 AM   #26
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: What is the One Point?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
to win.
Ah...now i understand why you don't care for Aikido.
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Old 07-12-2006, 06:47 AM   #27
Mark Freeman
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Re: What is the One Point?

Quote:
Paige Frazier wrote:
lol Szczepan, i don't think you really grasped what i was saying in that post. I stated my opinion, which means, NO, i am NOT sure of my claims. It is my opinion. (hince the word "personally")

However, you, stated your opinion as fact, which is why i asked you to provide proof.
Don't hold your breath Paige my questions to the same poster went completely unanswered

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 07-12-2006, 08:40 AM   #28
Lyle Bogin
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Re: What is the One Point?

It's the point we're all trying to make that we can't possibly articulate .
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Old 07-12-2006, 08:43 AM   #29
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: What is the One Point?

Quote:
Lyle Bogin wrote:
It's the point we're all trying to make that we can't possibly articulate .
Good point,
Thread killer!
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Old 07-12-2006, 08:49 AM   #30
tedehara
 
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Re: What is the One Point?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
You got all wrong. It is not 'one point' that is responsible for unification with Universe but a spirit of Mgumba Gungdha that possess one's body after particular ceremony of initiation.
You will say now that the spirit of Mgumba Gungdha doesn't exist so it's all false. Why don't you provide all of us with proof of this since you seem to be so sure of your claims?

As you see my small example above your argumentation can be apply to any imaginable stupidity, because is against logic. It is to ppl who believe in 'one point' to provide prove of existence, not to me.

Even creator of this concept, K.Tohei himself doesn't know exactly what is it; he changed many times its meaning, probably depending of actual direction of a wind, color of the smoke or other esoteric reasons. This only prove how big nonsense it is.

On the tatami there is only one reality: or you can throw attacker or you can't. You may have tons of more or less mysterious concepts that nobody really understands, but it will change nothing at all. Aikido practice is not about developing concepts.

Also, if you store something, and the same time let it and keep it "flowing" by relaxing muscles, better try it close to toilet LOL.
Big Grin

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
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Old 07-12-2006, 10:42 AM   #31
jonreading
 
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Re: What is the One Point?

Dan Linden's book "On Mastering Aikido" is a good read to de-mystify some eastern concepts that cause us westerners confusion. I think he actually addresses the one point...

To me, the one point is an imaginary point created by our brain to balance our body. I find it between the hips and approximately 3-12 inches in front or behind our body, depending upon weight distribution and posture.

Essentially, humans stand on 2 feet; balancing on 2 feet is difficult and unstable. In geometry, 2 points can create a line (segment), but cannot create a shape. Three points are required to make the simplest geometric shape, a triangle. Our brain uses complex calculations to establish an imaginary third point to create a triangle of balance. In my opinioin, this imaginary point is the "one point" so often referred. Nothing too exciting.

But a triangle is still not very stable, so our brains continue to create imaginary points of reference to balance our body. 2 more points (5 total) give us a very stable geometric shape - the pyramid. These two new points are commonly referred to as "sankaku" or the third leg of a two-legged human; we have one in front of us and one behind.

The catch is these points are imaginary, which explains why we lose our balance when a false point is pressured.

Last edited by jonreading : 07-12-2006 at 10:44 AM. Reason: spellin'
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Old 07-12-2006, 11:13 AM   #32
MaryKaye
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Re: What is the One Point?

In unbendable arm specifically, one thing that thinking about your one point (or hara, or whatever) does is to discourage you from thinking about, and tensing, your arm or shoulder. I find that thinking about the soles of my feet works well here, too. Anything but thinking about my shoulder!

I have trained with people who teach "use your hips/move from hara" and (more extensively) with people who say "keep one point." I think there is a practical difference but I'm a long way from being able to say what it is. The teachings involving "keep one point" seem easier to apply when I am not moving--I don't know how to "move from hara" when not moving, and it's not just a semantic problem. But I can't get more specific than that yet.

At the Ki Society National Conference, someone asked Shinichi Tohei sensei where your one point is when you have bent over backwards from seiza until you are lying on the mat. He said something to the effect of, "If you find this question puzzling and distracting, try to think of something else, like being relaxed or keeping weight underside." (Not an exact quote, but I think that was the gist of it.) I liked this answer a lot.

Mary Kaye
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Old 07-12-2006, 11:15 AM   #33
dps
 
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Re: What is the One Point?

"The truth is, you've probably "found" one-point many times before in your life. It's just that nobody called it "one-point" at the time. For whatever reason, you were doing something that you felt particularly happy and comfortable doing. You were calm, relaxed, and positive. You were keeping one-point.
You see, one-point is not an invention of Aikido. It was a discovery made by Aikido practitioners. Now, Aikido (and it's related exercises) may very well be the best way to discover one-point and reinforce it's feeling. But one-point is not owned by Aikido. It is just a natural part of being a human being."

So now we'll give away the secret, and tell you just where one-point is located: It's about two inches below your navel, within your lower abdomen. (Wasn't nearly as mysterious as you had hoped, was it?) This is your body's center of balance. The most powerful motions of the body originate here. And the calmest minds are concentrated here"You will find that when you keep one-point, you are harder to move. That's the physical result. But you may also notice that you feel different when you keep one-point. You feel more comfortable and calm, although fully aware. You may not notice it, but your face will look more relaxed and serene. You are finding a more dependable state.

That's a fascinating thing about one-point. By concentrating the mind there, you become more stable both physically and mentally. And when someone tests you - as when you just had your friend press on your collar bone - it tells something about you mentally by the way you react physically. "

From; http://www.bodymindandmodem.com/Main/main.html

Trust only movement. Life happens at the level of events not of words. Trust movement. --Alfred Adler
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:31 PM   #34
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Re: What is the One Point?

Sorry Mark, I had to miss your post by mistake, don't take it personally.

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
Pseudo religious slang - how do you come to that conclusion?
Ppl who belive in this thing repeat 'one point mantra' all time, instead of doing real physical actions, exactly as in most of religions. Of course nobody can see any results of that, but those believers seems to ignor this simple fact. Again, typical for religious folks.

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
In Reality it doesn't exist at all - does the upper case 'R' make reality more real?
Yes.

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
Do ideas exist in reality or do they not exist at all?
Lets not enter into philosophical argumentation. This way leads to nowhere land.
Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
Who is the judge of what is really real and what is not?
If I hit you well enough to make you KO you can safely say it was really real.

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
Just a few thoughts that came to mind on reading the above pithy dismissal of a (to me) useful concept.
Who is the judge of what is really pithy and what is not?

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:22 PM   #35
Robert Rumpf
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Re: What is the One Point?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
It is kind of pseudo religious slang. In Reality it doesn't exist at all.
Yeah... I agree with Szczepan.

So, when people talk about "One Point" and make statements like "keep One Point" and talk about "move from One Point," its just a coincidence that "hara" and "One Point" corresponds fairly well to the body's center of mass.

The fact that it is pseudo-religious nonsense can clearly be seen on this page: One Point

In addition, I agree with Szczepan that the idea that being conscious of your center of mass while learning to move can help you move effectively, is complete nonsense and is psuedo-religious slang..

Likewise, imagining or perceiving a fixed point, an axis of rotation of a technique, or a center of mass for a situation or an opponent is also completely psuedo-religious and these concepts don't exist at all in reality.

Thanks for clearing that up,
Rob
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Old 07-12-2006, 03:59 PM   #36
billybob
 
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Re: What is the One Point?

Robert Rumpf -
Quote:
Likewise, imagining or perceiving a fixed point, an axis of rotation of a technique, or a center of mass for a situation or an opponent is also completely psuedo-religious and these concepts don't exist at all in reality.
Tautology.

Of course 'concepts' don't exist in reality! The word roots mean "with head"

The moment I speak I am using symbols. I have left reality behind. Read 'The Structure of Scientific Revolutions' by Thomas Kuhn. Without a paradigm there can be no scientific investigation. In lay terms - without a frame of reference we can learn nothing 'conceptual'.

So, don't throw out the baby with the bath water and argue that concepts aren't real. If they are useful to some people, then they are valid - whether you buy it or not. They honestly don't give a damn.

David
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Old 07-12-2006, 04:47 PM   #37
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: What is the One Point?

Quote:
Robert Rumpf wrote:
Yeah... I agree with Szczepan.

So, when people talk about "One Point" and make statements like "keep One Point" and talk about "move from One Point," its just a coincidence that "hara" and "One Point" corresponds fairly well to the body's center of mass.

The fact that it is pseudo-religious nonsense can clearly be seen on this page: One Point

In addition, I agree with Szczepan that the idea that being conscious of your center of mass while learning to move can help you move effectively, is complete nonsense and is psuedo-religious slang..

Likewise, imagining or perceiving a fixed point, an axis of rotation of a technique, or a center of mass for a situation or an opponent is also completely psuedo-religious and these concepts don't exist at all in reality.

Thanks for clearing that up,
Rob
Clearing what up ....just because you don't believe in it doesn't mean it does not exist.

I am not posting this to argue with you.....I want people to know that you can train to be centered. Being one pointed is having correct feeling and that co-ordination of mind and body is a great way to experience life.

It has nothing to do with religion.

I don't understand why people train and talk about real fighting but I don't ridicule it ...try opening your mind just a little...you might be pleasantly surprised.

Mary
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Old 07-12-2006, 05:01 PM   #38
Mike Sigman
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Re: What is the One Point?

Just to toss in my 2 cents. The idea of "center of mass" being the "one point" sort of means that Asians were dummies to give some obscure term to such an obvious concept, doesn't it? In other words, to toss off "one point" as being something as obvious as "center of mass" is a little patronizing toward Asians. If they're that dumb and obvious, why on earth would anyone elect to do their martial arts?

I personally think the "one point" or "dantien" or "tanden", etc., concept is a lot more complicated that it appears to be. The physical "dantien" can be thought of as a muscular soccer ball that is attached to the spine and hips and moves in accordance with them and the forces of the ground or the weight. The "one point" could then be the figurative center of this area.... and that would be far more sophisticated than this discussion has become.

However, while the above paragraph is true, it neglects a very sophisticated part of what is the actual "ki" or "qi" in the way the mind directs the forces. And sure, I was unaware of this stuff at one time too, so I'm not trying to be supercilious. But if you know how to trigger the ki things, suddenly you see a clever way to manipulate forces and what a real "one point" is becomes clear. A real "Aha!". And suddenly those dumb ole Asians don't appear as dumb or as superficial as we thought. Maybe instead of interpretting on what we know, we should consider the possibility that there are things that we simply didn't learn in our training?

FWIW

Mike Sigman
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Old 07-12-2006, 07:25 PM   #39
dps
 
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Re: What is the One Point?

Quote:
Robert Rumpf wrote:
Yeah... I agree with Szczepan.
So, when people talk about "One Point" and make statements like "keep One Point" and talk about "move from One Point," its just a coincidence that "hara" and "One Point" corresponds fairly well to the body's center of mass. Rob
It's just another way to explain the body'scenter of mass.
Quote:
Robert Rumpf wrote:
The fact that it is pseudo-religious nonsense can clearly be seen on this page: One Point Rob
Hey, that was my post, get your own.
Quote:
Robert Rumpf wrote:
In addition, I agree with Szczepan that the idea that being conscious of your center of mass while learning to move can help you move effectively, is complete nonsense and is psuedo-religious slang..Rob
Getting punched in the face will definitely raise your center of mass, try it.
Getting kicked in the groin will definitely lower you center of mass, try it.
Quote:
Robert Rumpf wrote:
Likewise, imagining or perceiving a fixed point, an axis of rotation of a technique, or a center of mass for a situation or an opponent is also completely psuedo-religious and these concepts don't exist at all in reality.
No, science, you know like physics, mechanical engineering, biology.
Quote:
Robert Rumpf wrote:
Thanks for clearing that up,Rob
No problem

Trust only movement. Life happens at the level of events not of words. Trust movement. --Alfred Adler
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Old 07-12-2006, 07:43 PM   #40
aikigirl10
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Re: What is the One Point?

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote:
just because you don't believe in it doesn't mean it does not exist.
can we like bold, italicize and turn on the CAPS LOCK for that ^^^^^^^^^^
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Old 07-12-2006, 08:44 PM   #41
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Re: What is the One Point?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
I'm not much for mumbo jumbo myself. And the aiki arts are full it.

I teach by very....practical, explicable methods with a purpose and goal to knock people out, choke them, break them, throw them and control them to win. How?
Using concepts and ideas like storing and releasing, pressures in breathing, holding tension, frame, connection in fascia/tendon work throughout the body and zero balance work.

That said, Tohei was not full of it, there is one reality on the mat and the fact that Aikido is NOT about developing concepts may be its biggest weakness.

Dan
Dan,
First of all you are not practicing aikido. So I have very mixed feeling about your 'stuff'.
Soccer masters are good in soccer. Tennis masters are good in tennis. And you Dan, you are good in what?
Credibility of your opinions about aikido depends of your training level in aikido. Not in MMA, not in judo, not in some other more or less esoteric arts. Aikido. We are talking here about aikido.

Second point is that 99.9999999% of world population aikido students need 20 - 30 years of hard physical training. Not once a month or once a week -- every day training. Not concepts, but simple body conditioning with aikido techniques. Without such base, any abstract idea will be not only misunderstood, but will help very much to regress on the Way.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 07-12-2006, 08:51 PM   #42
NagaBaba
 
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Re: What is the One Point?

Quote:
just because you don't believe in it doesn't mean it does not exist.
Yes, this is good point. In any religion you must believe in something. That's why I'm convinced that you guys you are doing psedo religious One Point Church.

MA are not about believing. Aikido is not about believing.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 07-12-2006, 09:17 PM   #43
ChrisMoses
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Re: What is the One Point?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
Yes, this is good point. In any religion you must believe in something. That's why I'm convinced that you guys you are doing psedo religious One Point Church.

MA are not about believing. Aikido is not about believing.
Except that he asks you to believe that in 30 years it will work, no really, please keep paying your dues, only a few decades left and you'll be able to throw a blue blelt from Savage Joe's Jujutsu Adademy.
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Old 07-12-2006, 09:17 PM   #44
Upyu
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Re: What is the One Point?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
Dan,
First of all you are not practicing aikido. So I have very mixed feeling about your 'stuff'.
Soccer masters are good in soccer. Tennis masters are good in tennis. And you Dan, you are good in what?
Credibility of your opinions about aikido depends of your training level in aikido. Not in MMA, not in judo, not in some other more or less esoteric arts. Aikido. We are talking here about aikido.

Second point is that 99.9999999% of world population aikido students need 20 - 30 years of hard physical training. Not once a month or once a week -- every day training. Not concepts, but simple body conditioning with aikido techniques. Without such base, any abstract idea will be not only misunderstood, but will help very much to regress on the Way.
You know it's funny Baba, I got no attatchment to Dan, I've never met him in real life. Nor have I met Mike. Yet the conversations I've had with them hit too close to home from what I've experienced for it to be "coincidence". Which means in my mind there's only so many efficient ways to move the human body
Plus, they're not exactly intuitive at first.

Dan just happens to apply it to MMA and everyday labor work.
Mike likes to apply it to movement in everyday life.

I think you're just jealous that there's someone that might walk the walk better than how you like to talk the talk
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Old 07-12-2006, 09:39 PM   #45
ksy
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Re: What is the One Point?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
Yes, this is good point. In any religion you must believe in something. That's why I'm convinced that you guys you are doing psedo religious One Point Church.

MA are not about believing. Aikido is not about believing.
I dont know jack about aikido techniques since i'm pretty new but then if i didn't "believe" in the application of aikido, especially now when everthing is so unfamilar to me, i would not continue. same thing with any MA i've considered in the past.

everything requires a certain amount of faith and the word "believe" is not restricted to religion itself. for eg, a certain amount of faith is put on your sensei, in hope that he/she will impart the neccesary knowledge to you. Anyone starting serious MA training will not continue if they dont "believe" that the techniques they learn can be duplicated in an outside environment or that it can give them a certain egde.

as for this "psedo religious One Point Church" you refer to, isn't it all just words. end of day, you're looking for balance which would give you max leverage for whatever technique you wish to put on, however you want to call it. no need to put us "religious" aikido folk down.

As for me now, when i can't even take ukemi properly, "believe" is all i have to fall back on. and maybe a little bit of "mysticism"....

p/s - any diff between believe and blind trust?
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Old 07-12-2006, 10:07 PM   #46
dps
 
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Re: What is the One Point?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:


Second point is that 99.9999999% of world population aikido students need 20 - 30 years of hard physical training. Not once a month or once a week -- every day training. Not concepts,,,,,, .
Definition of concept from the American Heritage Dictionary;
' Something formed in the mind; a thought or notion.'

Didn't O'Sensei have a concept ( thought or notion ) and didn't he call that concept ( thought or notion) Aikido?


When is the video coming out?

Last edited by dps : 07-12-2006 at 10:09 PM.

Trust only movement. Life happens at the level of events not of words. Trust movement. --Alfred Adler
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Old 07-13-2006, 01:25 AM   #47
DH
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Re: What is the One Point?

Sxczepan writes........
Dan,
First of all you are not practicing aikido. So I have very mixed feeling about your 'stuff'.
Soccer masters are good in soccer. Tennis masters are good in tennis. And you Dan, you are good in what?
Credibility of your opinions about aikido depends of your training level in aikido. Not in MMA, not in judo, not in some other more or less esoteric arts. Aikido. We are talking here about aikido.

Second point is that 99.9999999% of world population aikido students need 20 - 30 years of hard physical training. Not once a month or once a week -- every day training. Not concepts, but simple body conditioning with aikido techniques. Without such base, any abstract idea will be not only misunderstood, but will help very much to regress on the Way.



Szczepan
I take no offense at your critique. I hope you take no offense at mine. I think your art can be stopped dead in its tracks by these skills -without using any technique whatsoever to do so- in just a few years training. Virtually nulllified. If it takes you thirty years to understand these skills-if you ever do-is the failure of your teachers in Aikido or your own prejudice. In either case I feel very bad for you.

What you fail to understand is the things being highlighted here are the very foundation of your art...not what you have been doing.

On any other day I will argue that your founder continually ranted against mindsets just like yours and he freed himself of it to be rid of it.. How many times did he see movement and call it great Aikido. When he met a Sumo player named Tenryu he graduated him in three months telling him he had nothing more to teach him.
Now just imagine Ueshiba telling you he had nothing more to teach you...............................................
And this was to a sumo guy?
You would be the doof student in the room saying "What do you mean Ueshiba sensei? He doesn't understand Aikido!!"

I've just trained with one of the highest Chen Tai chi men in the world from Chen village and twenty of his students doing push hands. I told them "I can't do Tai chi, I don' know Tai chi, that I've never done Tai chi." A mere four hours in they told me I had better internal skills than them. And that I could help fix their Tai chi.
Their teacher could do nothing to me and bounced off me.

Even Rob with such little experience has met a highly trained man from Sagawa dojo and promptly announced here that "He had no structure."

These skills are the apex of all these arts, and they are the thread that runs through them and joins them like a string of pearls. Which are frequently laid before swine
The internets quite interesting. Quite a cast of charactors. I would sugget to you that you ignore this talk of these skills. Ignore me.
Theres nothing here for you to learn.

Dan

Last edited by DH : 07-13-2006 at 01:38 AM.
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Old 07-13-2006, 03:33 AM   #48
Mark Freeman
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Re: What is the One Point?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
Sorry Mark, I had to miss your post by mistake, don't take it personally.


Ppl who belive in this thing repeat 'one point mantra' all time, instead of doing real physical actions, exactly as in most of religions. Of course nobody can see any results of that, but those believers seems to ignor this simple fact. Again, typical for religious folks.


Yes.


Lets not enter into philosophical argumentation. This way leads to nowhere land.

If I hit you well enough to make you KO you can safely say it was really real.


Who is the judge of what is really pithy and what is not?
I don't take it personally Szczepan, no problem

And if you were to throw a punch at me for an intended KO and I move from my 'one point' and throw you, would you then accept that the one point was 'real'? I somehow doubt it

Your answers to my questions seem to be a good way of digging yourself into a hole and throwing away the shovel ( but don't take it personally )

regards,

Mark
p.s. Who is the judge of what is really pithy and what is not?...Me!

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 07-13-2006, 04:00 AM   #49
Dazzler
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Re: What is the One Point?

Hmmm.

Some thread this - gets the grey matter churning a bit.

On the one point itself. Well - firstly no one seems to deny that there is a centre to the body - via locking the elbows to the body and using a rigid arm its fairly easy to see that this will allow transfer of all the bodys mass to a target, as opposed to using a moving arm and the muscular force to perhaps just land the mass of a persons arm.

I'll suggest this is akin to the ability of boxers that can "punch their weight".

While I hate the term unbendable arm (since I always keep a slight bend in mine to protect the elbow) its fairly easy to see the benefits. If you look at most modern tow trucks they use a rigid bar rather than a flexible chain since it gives much better control when pulling. Energy is not lost in the erratic movement of the chain.

Again - look at boxing ...a straight cross down the line with the body mass firmly behind it is a lot more powerful than just an arm based punch.

So...I guess my point is that on a physical level you can see the benefits of using the centre of the body to utilise all of the bodies weight to maximise the power achieved.

Add in to this equation that the human body is fairly strong in the oblique Kamea used when facing an opponent / Uke but has a triangular point of weakness to the front and also to the rear (which are joined by the irimi line then its reasonable ...(again on a physical level) to accept that if Tori places the centre of his body on either the weak point to the front eg Ikkyo omote, or the weak point to the rear eg sumi otoshi or irimi nage) or even attacks down this irimi line eg Tenchi Nage then he is using his maximum force against points of weakness of Uke and thus increasing his mechanical or physical advantage.

So ....I'd suggest from a physical angle there are some clear reasons for practicing with the idea of centre.

Now ...for me, one of the special things about Aikido is that it has many layers and levels of practice, like an onion perhaps.

Moving away from the physical you move into realms of ki and suchlike. Much harder ideas to swallow for most of us. I certainly can offer no expert explanation and won't even try to compete with specialists such as Mr. Sigman accept to say its a choice - you can acknowledge that years of Asian tradition were founded on something and work towards an understanding...or dismiss it and work towards the purely physical.

Its the individuals choice...we can't all be cage fighting champon of the world...but that doesn't demean our martial arts...if you accept that its not just about fighting.

Which leads me on to Dan Hardens point. I can't really ague with him at all. As I was reminded when I practiced jujitsu and vale tude ..Its possible to improve 'fighting' ability much quicker than through Aikido.

I've seen students walk in the door who were regular fighters outside the dojo...I don't want to say street fighters since few were in charlie bronsons film persona league...but they were guys that have / had regular fights. One of them may even have been me.

I can't really say that Aikido will make guys with this edge better fighters.

Starting to consider thing from the point of the receiver of the battering, accepting that not everyone is a target are all things that can slow down the desire to give pre-emptive strike followed by the quick deliver of the telling blows from no where that typifies the majority of "fights" in the uk.

I do think that those that stay have better lives.

Less chance of jail, less chance of receiving a knife from someone who wants the glory of their title but is scared to toe to toe with them.

Who knows for sure?

Anyway - I'll add that those that went the distance in jujitsu were 90% young fit men, we all had the same skinhead look...whats going the distance? well - I'll say achieving a pretty good standard where you'd mix it with everyone in the club without getting murdered. I lasted 8 years before a combination of neck injury and elbow damage forced me out. I was also 40 so creeping well up to my sell by date....and I still got murdered by the top league.

Anyway - back in the safer realms of Aikido I train with a much broader section of people. Sure most of them would lose in a fight to most of the guys with similar and less experience in the more fight based jujitsu. I like to think this doesn't invalidate them or their aikido. However I have met a few in Aikido that can fight and would be just at home in ether disciple. I just think Aikido being a bit less obvious is sometimes a harder road mentally.

Who actually wins in a fight anyway? the guy in hospital or dead? or the young guy that put a knife in him in a drunken rage and faces a 10 stretch plus a lifetime of looking over his shoulder and knowing he's deprived a bunch of kids of a father or brother?

Even in a crap fight - you spend 2 days suffering adrenaline dump hoping the other guy hasn't got a blood clot on the brain.

No one really wins.

Maybe O'Sensei felt that Tenru just wanted to fight and that was it.

One day maybe we'll get to ask him in the big dojo in the sky.

anyway Dan - thanks for your posts - I enjoy them and very much welcome an alternative opinion to help keep our feet on the ground.

Cheers

D
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:18 AM   #50
Robert Rumpf
Dojo: Academy of Zen and the Ways
Location: Kailua, HI
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 164
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Re: What is the One Point?

Quote:
David Knowlton wrote:
Robert Rumpf -

Tautology.

Of course 'concepts' don't exist in reality! The word roots mean "with head"

The moment I speak I am using symbols. I have left reality behind. Read 'The Structure of Scientific Revolutions' by Thomas Kuhn. Without a paradigm there can be no scientific investigation. In lay terms - without a frame of reference we can learn nothing 'conceptual'.

So, don't throw out the baby with the bath water and argue that concepts aren't real. If they are useful to some people, then they are valid - whether you buy it or not. They honestly don't give a damn.

David
I was being facetious and sarcastic, as my links should have indicated... I don't really agree with him. My perception was that the links that I included in my post more clearly stated one extremely useful interpretation of One Point more clearly than I could, and were self-explanatory. I was mocking the idea of dismissing center of mass when thinking about moving.

Just so that there is no confusion: I think that the idea of One Point is very important. I'm not sure about the ki-related connotations of such ideas, but physics at least I have some understanding of.

Sorry to be confusing.. Likewise sorry to Mary.

Rob

Last edited by Robert Rumpf : 07-13-2006 at 05:21 AM.
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