Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-07-2005, 01:35 PM   #1
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Question Need Picture of O-Sensei doing Jo Trick

O-Sensei did a demonstration (a number of times) with someone(s) pushing against a jo that he had outstretched. However, he did it two different ways. In the most commonly available pictures, he did it with people pushing from the outside of his arm toward O-Sensei's front. There is another picture that shows someone pushing against the jo from in front of O-Sensei toward the area behind O-Sensei. I'm trying to get a copy of that latter picture. Does anyone have a copy or can someone point me to where there is a copy? Many thanks.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2005, 02:25 PM   #2
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: Need Picture of O-Sensei doing Jo Trick

Hi Mike,

Great question. I would love to see any pictures of that trick myself! I thought I saw that on one of those old videos of O-sensei.

Donna Winslow sensei had a series of pictures (like where you could flip through them and kind of watch a low quality movie) of some _other_ aikido sensei doing that trick. I have no idea what the orientation of these pictures are but I always wanted to see them.

I think I can do the trick too as long as just one of the ukes pulls instead of pushes!

Rob
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2005, 03:48 PM   #3
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Need Picture of O-Sensei doing Jo Trick

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
Hi Mike,

Great question. I would love to see any pictures of that trick myself! I thought I saw that on one of those old videos of O-sensei.

Donna Winslow sensei had a series of pictures (like where you could flip through them and kind of watch a low quality movie) of some _other_ aikido sensei doing that trick. I have no idea what the orientation of these pictures are but I always wanted to see them.

I think I can do the trick too as long as just one of the ukes pulls instead of pushes!

Rob

Hi Rob:


This one shows uke's pushing from the back direction. I'm looking for one pushing from the front:

http://www.neijia.com/backJoStart.JPG

The trick is not that hard to do.... the question is doing it well.

If you know of anyone with the picture (I think only one person is pushing IIRC), please let me know.

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2005, 02:11 PM   #4
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: Need Picture of O-Sensei doing Jo Trick

He does it in the film: "Rendevous With Adventure". I'll look at it again when I get a chance. If it is the angle you want, I'll send you a copy of that part.- Rob

By the way, great picture! Thanks!
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2005, 02:33 PM   #5
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Need Picture of O-Sensei doing Jo Trick

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
He does it in the film: "Rendevous With Adventure". I'll look at it again when I get a chance. If it is the angle you want, I'll send you a copy of that part.- Rob

By the way, great picture! Thanks!

Hi Rob:

No, that's a picture I don't want (I have the video)... they're pushing from the wrong side. I want the picture where someone is pushing from the front side of the jo. I've got a better picture of the backside, but I can't access my website due to a glitch today. Maybe later. Incidentally, there are instances of the jo trick where the uke's are pushing only downward, which is a different story. Sometimes they're not pushing anywhere and he simply is demonstrating that he can extend ki to the end of the jo and pull them all down simultaneously.

FWIW

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2005, 03:04 PM   #6
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: Need Picture of O-Sensei doing Jo Trick

Bummer. I thought I was going to be the big hero! Oh well. I'll try to get in touch with Donna Winslow sensei and see if I can get her pictures (or at least determine the orientation of the push).

I have made some progress in the area of being able to do things like this trick myself. I got some insight to your thoughts on this by watching the videos you sent me a while back. The main thing that I learned since then was that I really needed to correct some minor posture problems and concentrate on lengthening and widening instead of thinking about directly resisting the push on my arm. I am not immovable - but I'm a whole lot more solid and difficult to move in those weird positions than ever before.

A wonderful guy in NYC named Soon Li was able to help me understand how to think about my stance which also helped a lot. There are really some great resources in aikido. I really hope you make some further break-thoughs and share them with us!

Rob
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2005, 06:06 PM   #7
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Need Picture of O-Sensei doing Jo Trick

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
Bummer. I thought I was going to be the big hero! Oh well. I'll try to get in touch with Donna Winslow sensei and see if I can get her pictures (or at least determine the orientation of the push).
Thanks. Please let me know what you find.

Quote:
I have made some progress in the area of being able to do things like this trick myself. I got some insight to your thoughts on this by watching the videos you sent me a while back. The main thing that I learned since then was that I really needed to correct some minor posture problems and concentrate on lengthening and widening instead of thinking about directly resisting the push on my arm. I am not immovable - but I'm a whole lot more solid and difficult to move in those weird positions than ever before.
Well, "stance" is sort of important, but that's not really the point. For instance, let's take a look at someone pushing on your right shoulder directly toward the other shoulder (maybe a little bit downward to make it easy at first). Keep the feet parallel. As you relax, push slightly from the left leg toward the incoming push for just a second, you can feel a path establish between your left leg and the push.... once you feel that path, you can relax and let that path absorb the push down to the left leg. You can be very relaxed and withstand a reasonable push (keep the push at about 4 pounds to start with, tho). With a little practice, as soon as someone touches your shoulder, you can relaxedly ground it into the opposite leg (usually the back leg).

Then without moving a hair, have your partner walk around to the left shoulder and do a similar push. You should be able to let that push go to the ground also. Notice that it is a matter of willing which leg the path goes to, not changing stance or anything(well, at first, most people have to shift a tiny bit). From there you can practice having people push lightly on you in various postures (some of the ones in Tohei's books are good examples) and allowing the push to go directly to the back leg. Generally speaking turn the body slightly (at first) or (later) just 'will' the push into the back leg and try to let the back leg do all the work. Keep the weight on the back leg and don't stick it out behind you as a "brace", like so many Aikido people do. As a matter of fact, make it a habit to watch how many Aikidoka stick a straightened back leg behind them as a brace and then watch pictures of O-Sensei... he never used a "brace".

The problem is some of the extreme postures that are used as "showoff" demos. Both the Chinese and the Japanese use some of these to show there "ki", although really it is "jin" or "kokyu", if you want to be technical. These usually take a body that has been conditioned through breathing, standing, and muscular exercise (but in the ki sense of "muscular", not the regular usage).

In the case of the jo trick, the body must of course be conditioned and a lot in the wrist (ah.... but if there's one thing an aikidoka has, it's a strong, conditioned wrist!). Knowing how to do the trick isn't the same as doing it under a goodly force.... that's what the conditioning is for. The line of force goes from the left leg to the point on the jo which is being pushed (in the right hand). The body must be well connected in a sheet from the left leg, across the back, and down the back of the right arm.... and that usually comes from breath exercises. Of course it helps if the students doing the pushing aren't really pushing the way they would a stuck car... and they never do in those demos.

How's that?
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2005, 07:00 AM   #8
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: Need Picture of O-Sensei doing Jo Trick

That was a really good explanation! I totally agree about not bracing and so does my teacher who specifically teaches us to not brace the back leg as well. I don't actually know how to take advantage of that weakness if someone it bracing - other than I don't think they can move as quickly I can since their leg is locked into a position. Last I heard Donna Winslow sensei was in Amsterdam, so I've been trying to think who I can contact at her old dojo in St. Jerome that might have her email. I'll get in touch with her. I suprised no one else on this board has any pictures of this really cool trick.

Rob
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Budo Bear Patterns - Sewing pattern for Women's (and Men's) dogi.



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Saito sensei's funeral June 22-3, 2002 pyarrow General 3 06-14-2004 12:39 AM
Seminar with Students of Chiba Sensei Ron Tisdale Seminars 0 01-21-2004 09:47 AM
Aiki Expo Thoughts (Long!) akiy Seminars 5 09-29-2003 10:15 PM
Seminar Review: Saotome Sensei in MT akiy Seminars 0 10-03-2000 12:30 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:02 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate