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Old 11-13-2004, 10:43 PM   #26
Rocky Izumi
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Re: Mysterious Action of Kotodama

Quote:
Hiroaki Izumi wrote:
The mysterious universal application of the laws of thermodynamics and probability on which the interaction of bodies in space depend. And when viewing all the activity in all the universe, each activity becomes improbable, unique, and a miracle since the probability of a particle being in any one spot at a specific point in time is improbable. We must simply accept that it is. Once we can accept that and work with it, everything becomes possible.

Yeah, I've gone off the deep end. That's what you get when you mix Zen with Physics.

Rock
Wow, I never should have had that sixth double rum and tonic last night or it could have been that big cigar!

Rock
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Old 11-14-2004, 05:23 AM   #27
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Mysterious Action of Kotodama

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
OK, I guess that I'll start things out, since nobody seems to be posting here...

In the beginning of "Take Musu Aiki" Morihei Ueshiba attempts to explain what "Aikido" is - one of the examples given is "Aikido is the mysterious action of kotodama, the great way of universal misogi.", which explains the title of the thread. He gives a number of other examples, along more or less similar lines. Now of course, he was speaking to a very specific audience in this case (the "Byakko Shinko Kai" - "White Light Association"). Still, it is clear, even from the testimony of his students at the Kobukan, that this kind of thinking dominated his mind even before the war.

He gives these explanations, apparently, in response to a request made to begin the lectures with an explanation of what "Aikido" is. My question is this - if someone made a similar request of you, what would you say?

Best,

Chris
Hello Chris,

Do you think that the "Takemusu Aiki" lectures indicate that O Sensei had any knowledge of the beliefs of Byakko Shinko Kai, or tailored the lectures to respond to Byakko Shinko Kai beliefs, especially the beliefs concerning the whirlpool of karmic waves allegedly circulating the planet?

Best,

P A Goldsbury
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Old 11-14-2004, 09:23 AM   #28
Chris Li
 
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Re: Mysterious Action of Kotodama

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote:
Hello Chris,

Do you think that the "Takemusu Aiki" lectures indicate that O Sensei had any knowledge of the beliefs of Byakko Shinko Kai, or tailored the lectures to respond to Byakko Shinko Kai beliefs, especially the beliefs concerning the whirlpool of karmic waves allegedly circulating the planet?

Best,
I don't know enough about what the Bakko Shinko Kai thinks to say one way or the other, but the texts in Takemusu Aiki don't seem to me to be out of line with his writings from other sources. What do you think?

Best,

Chris

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Old 11-15-2004, 05:42 AM   #29
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Mysterious Action of Kotodama

So much of what O-Sensei taked about was incomprehensible to tha average person who a) had no classical education and had not read or studied the Japanes classics which contain the myths upon which Shinto is based. And by this I refer to what "religion" was in Japan before the official modern tradtions such as Buddhism and Conficionism came to Japanese shores. b) most Japanese, and this would include most of the deshi, had little or no knowledge of the religious traditions whose esential beliefs underly the modern religious traditions.

If you take the Kototama as fundamental to O-Sensei's understanding of ho wthe universe works and therefore how Aikido functions, there are a host of traditions which would afford someone an understanding of he general gist of what he was speaking about if not the exact specific Omotokyo meaning of a given concept.

In other words, the kototama is a way of understanding the nature of things that spread from India through Tibet, Mongolia into China then to Korea and Japan. O-Sensei's way of talking about the universe in terms of everything being described in terms of vibration represented by a sound, and then that sound having associated colors, elements, psychic aspects, Kami etc. would be comprehensible to anyone from a Tibetan Buddhist background for instance. They might not understand the specifically Shinto religious associations used by O-Sensei but they would be quite at home with his general view that the universe was created when the primordial stillnes was broken by a sound (vibration). Even in Westre traditions we have the remais of this type of thinking although we;ve lost the application in any systematic way. The Bible starts with "in the beginning was the "Word".

All Shinto derived traditions before modern state sponsored Shinto was based on the idea of the Kannagara no Michi, the way ofthe Kami. This was the Kototama. Buddhism also picked up the same concepts along the way becoming Mikkyo or Esoteric Buddhism in Japan. Kukai, the Founder brought the system back from China. Although they don't use the same symbolic mythology that O-sensei did in his later life (He did study Shingon Buddism when he was young) O-Sensei's general meaning would have been comprehensible to them in a way that he wouldn't be to any ordinary person because they shared the same fundamental reference point of the kototama, the universe described by vibartion and its symbology.

It is my understanding that Deguchi sparked something of a renaissance in Japan with regard to Kototama. His sytem was Omotokyo but other Shinto derived groups shared the same essential concepts and would therefore be able to get the general gist of what he was talking about even if the specific Omotokyo version was unique. And he would understand there basic frame of reference as well. I think this explaions the various friendships which O-sensei seemed to have with varios spiritual teachers of the time. They all shared this uderlying "energetics" view of the nature of hings andtherefore had something of a common language.

George S. Ledyard
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Old 11-16-2004, 10:41 PM   #30
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Mysterious Action of Kotodama

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
In other words, the kototama is a way of understanding the nature of things that spread from India through Tibet, Mongolia into China then to Korea and Japan. O-Sensei's way of talking about the universe in terms of everything being described in terms of vibration represented by a sound, and then that sound having associated colors, elements, psychic aspects, Kami etc. would be comprehensible to anyone from a Tibetan Buddhist background for instance. They might not understand the specifically Shinto religious associations used by O-Sensei but they would be quite at home with his general view that the universe was created when the primordial stillnes was broken by a sound (vibration). Even in Westre traditions we have the remais of this type of thinking although we;ve lost the application in any systematic way. The Bible starts with "in the beginning was the "Word".
Hello George,

There is much here to ponder on, but I think you need to clarify your last sentence. The Bible starts with "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (King James version).

The sentence you have quoted is the beginnning of the Prologue of the Gospel of John (John 1, 1-14). There is some evidence that John used the term 'logos' in a new and quite different sense to what it had meant before (and the term is not used in the same sense anywhere else in the prologue or in the New Testament). I doubt very much that John meant vibration or sound.

I am aware that Morihei Ueshiba actually cites the term 'logos' in "Takemusu Aiki" and obviously has the verse you quoted im mind. However, I have thought for a long time that the concept does not bear the weight that O Sensei puts on it.

Best regards,

P A Goldsbury
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Old 11-16-2004, 11:01 PM   #31
Chuck Clark
 
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Re: Mysterious Action of Kotodama

What gets me, Rocky, is the relationship that one improbable particle has with another improbable particle that keeps showing us all the miracles in the chaos... and then it keeps changing...

Great faith tempered with great doubt in my own ability to understand any of it keeps me looking and taking part.

Great to see you posting again, my friend.

Take care,

Chuck Clark
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Old 11-17-2004, 07:06 AM   #32
Rocky Izumi
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Re: Mysterious Action of Kotodama

Ah, my irreverence and irrelevance is not lost on some.

In vino veritas!

Often, I find trying to discuss Japanese concepts in English extremely difficult and would rather move the discussion to a direction in which all the concepts and their relationships are in English. And vice versa for Japanese.

So, Chuck, I think you hit the nail on the head. It is about constant change and how things all balance out in the end (of course which is not the real end since we aren't at the end and if it was, it wouldn't matter). You know, this made more sense after that sixth rum.

Back to work.

Rock
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Old 11-20-2004, 06:52 AM   #33
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Mysterious Action of Kotodama

Quote:
Hiroaki Izumi wrote:
Ah, my irreverence and irrelevance is not lost on some.

In vino veritas!

Often, I find trying to discuss Japanese concepts in English extremely difficult and would rather move the discussion to a direction in which all the concepts and their relationships are in English. And vice versa for Japanese.

So, Chuck, I think you hit the nail on the head. It is about constant change and how things all balance out in the end (of course which is not the real end since we aren't at the end and if it was, it wouldn't matter). You know, this made more sense after that sixth rum.

Back to work.

Rock
Hello Rocky,

Ah, the mysterious influence of aikido kotodama! I access the forum and just happen to look at my Private Messages and behold, there is a message\and it's from you. Ohisashiburi. I have fond memories of the visit to Hong Kong. Did Ken ever tell you about the scotch?

I am glad you are participating in this web site and this forum. The 'Voices of Experience' have a wraithlike quality and could do with some more input.

As for the matter you raised in the PM, I am going to Tokyo this weekend and will meet Hiroshi Somemiya. Then I will get back to you via PM. Mutsuko Minegishi is in a similar situation in Saipan.

Hope to meet you again soon,

Best,

PAG

P A Goldsbury
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