Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-27-2004, 03:38 PM   #1
Yokaze
 
Yokaze's Avatar
Dojo: Five Dragons
Location: Sonoma State University
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 93
United_States
Offline
Question Another in my endless string ofquestions

Well, I just managed to pass my 3rd Kyu test, which was fun, if a little nerve-wracking. Anyway, I know it's a little too early to set my sights on the 2nd kyu test, but that's what I do. Always keep the next goal in sight.

Anyway, part of the test is "variations."

Here's a quote taken from my exam requirements (http://traditional-aikido.com/Info/e...quirements.htm):

Variations:
Katate dori
Hiji dori
Morote dori
Ryote dori

I'm not sure exactly what this entails, and I thought I'd ask here before I revealed my ignorance to my sensei. I'm not sure what a "variation" is, though I have a few ideas. Also, I've never heard of "Hiji Dori."

Can anyone illuminate the matter for me? (Speaking of illuminating, the Lunar eclipse here in Northern Ca will be truly awesome if the clouds stay away.)

Doomo Arigato Gozaimasu

"The only true victory is victory over oneself."

Rob Cunningham
3rd Kyu

Icon courtesy of Norbert Knoll http://www.aikido-verein-hannover.de
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2004, 04:05 PM   #2
p00kiethebear
 
p00kiethebear's Avatar
Dojo: Tonbo Dojo
Location: Bainbridge Island WA
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 374
United_States
Offline
Re: Another in my endless string ofquestions

sounds like they want to see multiple techniques from the same attacks.

Hiji Dori just sounds like a grab to your shoulder. (we call this kata tori in our school)

Good luck with the next test.

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity"
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2004, 04:14 PM   #3
Yokaze
 
Yokaze's Avatar
Dojo: Five Dragons
Location: Sonoma State University
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 93
United_States
Offline
Re: Another in my endless string ofquestions

Thanks for your thoughts.

It's funny, because we call it Kata dori in our dojo. Even on the exam requirements (see link above) it refers to "Kata Dori Nikkyo," etc.

"The only true victory is victory over oneself."

Rob Cunningham
3rd Kyu

Icon courtesy of Norbert Knoll http://www.aikido-verein-hannover.de
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2004, 04:21 PM   #4
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
Re: Another in my endless string ofquestions

Hiji is elbow-elbow grabs. Variations, if you look at the shodan test, are basically multiple techniques from the same attack. Ushiro hiji tori for example would be rear elbow grabs.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2004, 04:28 PM   #5
p00kiethebear
 
p00kiethebear's Avatar
Dojo: Tonbo Dojo
Location: Bainbridge Island WA
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 374
United_States
Offline
Re: Another in my endless string ofquestions

that's odd. I can't remember practicing a hiji tori technique. Oh wait yes i do. Uke wraps his arms around you at the elbows. This sounds suspiciously like a judo grab. O.o

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity"
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2004, 04:30 PM   #6
Qatana
 
Qatana's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Petaluma, Petaluma,CA
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 834
Offline
Re: Another in my endless string ofquestions

I had to do variations on my fifth kyu test! So i'm already expecting them next week for fourth. Your body will remember even if your brain shuts down! My sensei says in variations you don't have to come up with say four Different techniques but i bet by your next test you'll be able to.

Whats even more harrowing then my own test, we have a guy going for first kyu and that means if we are practicing one of his test techniques it means All the test candidates have to get up in front of everybody & demo, so i have to do a lot of stuff i'd just learned five minutes ago like tanto waza, variations on koshinage (in this case, different attacks) hamni handachi,etc, that no one is expecting me to actually Know for a long long time.

I'm already freaking out over my 3rd kyu test & i haven't even got to my fourth!

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2004, 05:00 PM   #7
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,339
Offline
Re: Another in my endless string ofquestions

Where I train, hiji dori is on tests but otherwise not really trained with--it is done for testing as a simple grab of the sleeve at the elbow.
But I don't know why you are not comfortable asking your instructor?

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2004, 05:08 PM   #8
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
Re: Another in my endless string ofquestions

Hiji is an elbow grab. What you sound like you were describing is a bear hug. That is ushiro tori. It is not the same as for example ushiro hiji tori which would be grabbing both elbows from behind.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2004, 08:08 AM   #9
Dazzler
Dojo: Bristol North Aikido Dojo
Location: Bristol
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 659
England
Offline
Re: Another in my endless string ofquestions

Rob

If you look a little further ahead at the first kyu syllabus there is a note that 3 techniques are required from each variation. You may find that similar are required for 2nd kyu.

Slap the various names into a search engine for confirmation but you've got most of the answers anyway;

Hiji is elbow, Kata is shoulder, Morote is both wrists. Ryote dori will probably be two hands on one wrist.

Tori/Dori seem pretty much interchangeable in this context.

As for variations, well my guess is that you've got quite a progressive syllabus that enables you to identify the most appropriate technique for yourself and your uke which allows you to start to show some understanding of aikido rather than just parrot fashion repetition.

Presumably you will get an attack called out in your grading by the panel / grader, you get to choose the way you deal with it.

But discuss with your Sensei. If there are gaps in your understanding this will help him identify what he needs to teach you.

Good luck.

D
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2004, 08:42 AM   #10
grondahl
Dojo: Stockholms Aikidoklubb
Location: Stockholm
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 601
Sweden
Offline
Re: Another in my endless string ofquestions

Quote:
Daren Sims wrote:

Hiji is elbow, Kata is shoulder, Morote is both wrists. Ryote dori will probably be two hands on one wrist..

D
Morote dori are two hands on one wrist. Since Robs dojo seems to train Iwama-style aikido, I´m pretty sure that he knows what morote dori Kokyu-ho is...
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2004, 09:04 AM   #11
eva
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 17
Offline
Re: Another in my endless string ofquestions

Quote:
Daren Sims wrote:
Hiji is elbow, Kata is shoulder, Morote is both wrists. Ryote dori will probably be two hands on one wrist.
Daz sensei: (I whould never ever criticise my sempai but)
I would say morote is both hands on one wrist (as in "morote dori kokyu ho" for Takemusu folks) ... ryote dori is both wrists.

Eva
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2004, 10:33 PM   #12
Yokaze
 
Yokaze's Avatar
Dojo: Five Dragons
Location: Sonoma State University
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 93
United_States
Offline
Re: Another in my endless string ofquestions

Quote:
Peter Gröndahl wrote:
Since Robs dojo seems to train Iwama-style aikido, I´m pretty sure that he knows what morote dori Kokyu-ho is...
Indeed. Morote is two hands on one wrist, Ryote is one hand on each wrist.

My dojo practices Takemusu style Aikido. Is there a significant difference between that and the Iwama style I hear about?

"The only true victory is victory over oneself."

Rob Cunningham
3rd Kyu

Icon courtesy of Norbert Knoll http://www.aikido-verein-hannover.de
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2004, 12:30 AM   #13
grondahl
Dojo: Stockholms Aikidoklubb
Location: Stockholm
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 601
Sweden
Offline
Re: Another in my endless string ofquestions

Quote:
Rob Cunningham wrote:
Indeed. Morote is two hands on one wrist, Ryote is one hand on each wrist.

My dojo practices Takemusu style Aikido. Is there a significant difference between that and the Iwama style I hear about?
Nope.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2004, 05:38 AM   #14
Dazzler
Dojo: Bristol North Aikido Dojo
Location: Bristol
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 659
England
Offline
Re: Another in my endless string ofquestions

Quote:
Daren Sims wrote:
Rob

Slap the various names into a search engine for confirmation but you've got most of the answers anyway;

D
Eva..expect to land on you head next time you are in Bristol...My inclusion of the above was a pretty strong hint to check these readily available terms. Also I did only say 'probably'....

I guess I should have done this myself ! But my boss will insist that I spend some time working when I'm here!

So...I've got them the wrong way round! I vote public flogging for me. But don't expect me not to enjoy it.



Quote:
Grondahl wrote:
Morote dori are two hands on one wrist. Since Robs dojo seems to train Iwama-style aikido, I´m pretty sure that he knows what morote dori Kokyu-ho is...

D
Grondahl...don't doubt it for a second. ....although wasn't it Rob that asked the question?

Apologies if I mislead you Rob..we use katate ryote dori rather than morote dori which is what threw me.... (Although I wish I had a relevant syllabus with me to check for sure!)

anyway...I'm just trying to second guess what the expectation for Robs next grading will be...since he asked!....Rob..let us know when you find out more?

Now that you've publicly humiliated me...I know, I deserve it. I'll crawl away and never be tempted to help someone out again!

Until the next time...did you think I'd quit after taking one ukemi?

Respectfully (have just checked the meaning of that via search engine)

D

Eva - did I mention landing on your head?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2004, 06:18 AM   #15
eva
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 17
Offline
Re: Another in my endless string ofquestions

Quote:
Daren Sims wrote:
Eva..expect to land on you head next time you are in Bristol...
And what's new about that? Pleeeease sensei throw me again *splash*

Quote:
Apologies if I mislead you Rob..we use katate ryote dori rather than morote dori which is what threw me.... (Although I wish I had a relevant syllabus with me to check for sure!)
yes "katate ryote dori" is what some people call "morote dori"
AFAIK this is on the NAF 3rd kyu syllabus....
(don't think it's on any of the dan gradings so no wonder you, as the teacher of seniors class, need to look it up... guess Ritchie would know this by heart)

Quote:
Eva - did I mention landing on your head?
Now you scare me
Looks like I need to work on my ukemi before I go back to Bristol

g,d,r
Eva
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2004, 06:38 AM   #16
Dazzler
Dojo: Bristol North Aikido Dojo
Location: Bristol
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 659
England
Offline
Re: Another in my endless string ofquestions

Does this mean I can get up from my prostrate position of shame now!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2004, 08:29 AM   #17
Greg Jennings
Dojo: S&G BJJ
Location: Springboro, OH
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,125
United_States
Offline
Re: Another in my endless string ofquestions

Quote:
Peter Gröndahl wrote:
Nope.
There are, however, differences between Iwama/Takemusu and other branches WRT how some of the attacks are executed. Ushiro katadori is one of them.

Regards,

Greg Jennings
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2004, 03:21 PM   #18
Yokaze
 
Yokaze's Avatar
Dojo: Five Dragons
Location: Sonoma State University
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 93
United_States
Offline
Re: Another in my endless string ofquestions

Quote:
Daren Sims wrote:
Apologies if I mislead you Rob..we use katate ryote dori rather than morote dori which is what threw me.... (Although I wish I had a relevant syllabus with me to check for sure!)

anyway...I'm just trying to second guess what the expectation for Robs next grading will be...since he asked!....Rob..let us know when you find out more?
I had a talk with Kennedy-sensei (my sensei) and Tatoian-sensei (his sensei). In addition, I talked to other sempai and figured out about what this will look like.

By the 2nd Kyu test, the number of techniques I have to show gets to be so long that Tatoian-sensei (who handles much of the upper-level testing) just randomly selects techniques for me to show, in a random order.

Then he will have me and my uke stand, and he'll ask the uke to attack me with a particular attack, which he or she is to do over and over again, with me defending with a different throw or variation each time.

Usually he then decides, on a whim, to add another uke or two, just for fun. He's like that.

Generally he also asks me to do something I've never done before, some variation of a throw or partner weapon technique, to see how quickly I can pick it up with just his verbal description of what I am to do.

That is how a second kyu or higher grading generally goes. It's very unorthodox and very fun, though I'll admit the concept of doing Randori for a grade scares the hell out of me.

Generally, though, if my sensei thinks I'm ready to even take the test, I've already passed. Does that make sense? He knows from practice that I'm already ready to be promoted to the next level, he just has the test to make it official.

I hope that answers your question.

"The only true victory is victory over oneself."

Rob Cunningham
3rd Kyu

Icon courtesy of Norbert Knoll http://www.aikido-verein-hannover.de
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:34 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2018 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2018 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate