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Old 10-15-2004, 02:32 AM   #1
DaveO
Dojo: Great Wave Aikido
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Slight dilemma of protocol

'Lo all!

I'm faced with a bit of a dilemma; and have little experience within aikido with which to make a decision. I'm therefore asking for a bit of counsel on the matter.

The Ki Society's Instructor Intensive is coming up in (I think) June. Ordinarily; this wouldn't mean much to me since I'm a long way to being a Sensei; and therefore can't go.

However; during the last seminar in Kingston we went out to dinner with Kashewaya Sensei and I wound up sitting beside him. He's a great person; we chatted for quite a while. During our talk; I asked him about some aspects of teaching aikido; and we (the group that is) discussed that for a while. I also talked about some training techniques I used back in my days as an Army U/C instructor - he seemed very interested in the comparisons. During the discussion; he said to me "Why don't you come down to the Instructor's Intensive next year? You will learn much of what you're asking." (I'd been talking about my recent trip to Vegas as well; that led into it a bit as well. )

Well anyway; that sounds one heck of a lot like an invitation to me. And believe me; I want to go more than anything.

The problem is; I'm just a sankyo. Yes; I teach now and then in the dojo; but I'm a loooong way from my own dojo; iff'n you know what I mean. Rank and time wise; I'm just not qualified to go - as I understand it; the II's are usually for 1st kyu and up.

So on the one hand; despite my desire; I can't go - but on the other; Kashewaya Sensei invited me down. Undoubtedly; it was probably just polite conversation on his part but he did make the offer. (And yes; he knew my rank, I thought about that. He congratulated me on it - man's got an incredible memory.)

So the correct path is a bit muddy to me - do I follow my head and say 'maybe in a few years' or do I follow my desire and accept the invite?

If this was just a question of making up my mind on a moral/ethical question; I'd have no probs with the decision; but this is as much as anything a question of protocol - something I'm not experienced at within the aikido community; hence my question.

Cheers!

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
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Old 10-15-2004, 03:05 AM   #2
JJF
 
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Re: Slight dilemma of protocol

Hi Dave

I don't know Kashewaya Sensei, so I cannot judge whether he was being polite, was brushing you off or was sincerely interested in having you come to the seminar. However - I take it he's in charge of the seminar more or less, so the invite is valid. Go there with an open mind and do a sincere effort to learn whatever you can. Consider in advance what you will do if you are not allowed onto the mat - I'm sure you will, but just in case get yourself mentally prepared to just sit at the sideline and watch.

I'm a bit curious though . why don't you take this up with you sensei ? He/she should be the right person to help you reach the right decision.

Hope you figure it out

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
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Old 10-15-2004, 03:06 AM   #3
PeterR
 
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Re: Slight dilemma of protocol

Sankyo is the technique Sankyu is the rank.

Go for it - it would be impolite not to. Also intructor intensive clinics tend to be for potential and current instructors. Usually that means Shodan and up but the choice is usually left to - well the guy that gave you the invite.

What I would do is write the Shihan a letter and remind him of the conversation, remind him of your rank (sankyu), your desire and your misgivings. If he wasn't just talking you will get a written invitation that the organizers, if more strict, can not ignore. I assume your sensei is all for it.

By the way if your sensei is Michelle please pass on my regards. I visited your group once a few years ago and we exchanged a couple letters after that.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 10-15-2004, 03:48 AM   #4
DaveO
Dojo: Great Wave Aikido
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Re: Slight dilemma of protocol

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote:
Sankyo is the technique Sankyu is the rank.
Whoops - typo!
I hate when I do that.

Peter; I've thought about writing Kashewaya Sensei to ask him; I may at some point, but the rank difference makes me shudder a bit. ( ) Still; your advice is most likely the best course of action.

Jorgen: Thanks for the advice; it's greatly appreciated. FYI; I have discussed this with my Sensei; neither of us are 100% sure of the protocol - it's not something that's cropped up before.

Cheers!

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
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Old 10-15-2004, 04:00 AM   #5
PeterR
 
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Re: Slight dilemma of protocol

Quote:
Dave Organ wrote:
Whoops - typo!
I hate when I do that.
Been there done that - all in fun.
Quote:
Peter; I've thought about writing Kashewaya Sensei to ask him; I may at some point, but the rank difference makes me shudder a bit. ( )
In this situation the rank difference has very little to do with it. There is a legitimate question based on a private conversation for which a direct letter is the best course. This is a far cry from some over enthusiastic beginner who saw the Shihan at a seminar writing for advice on how to do [name your technique here]. I've seen examples of the latter. Horrible.

Even questions that can be answered by a deshi are best addressed to the Shihan. That is the usual protocol.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 10-15-2004, 04:06 AM   #6
DaveO
Dojo: Great Wave Aikido
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Re: Slight dilemma of protocol

OK; thanks, Peter - I'll take your advice.

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
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Old 10-15-2004, 04:11 AM   #7
Jeff Baldwin
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Re: Slight dilemma of protocol

If you're not sure you should write Kashiwaya Sensei and ask him. I believe he spells his name Kashiwaya though, not Kashewaya.

the Vegas seminar start on June 22nd. More detail will be available later.
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Old 10-15-2004, 05:03 AM   #8
kironin
 
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Re: Slight dilemma of protocol

Quote:
Dave Organ wrote:
'Lo all!
The Ki Society's Instructor Intensive is coming up in (I think) June. Ordinarily; this wouldn't mean much to me since I'm a long way to being a Sensei; and therefore can't go.
Dave, which ?

The MKF Instructor's Intensive which is to be held February 16-20 in Houston or the National Instructor's Conference to be held June 22-26 in Las Vegas ? You need to clarify which he was talking about.

Rank is a factor but depending on the particular circumstances exceptions have been made. The protocol will be spelled out in the registration forms.
Parts of training are meant to include assisstants.
Email me privately for any further discussion, but Jill could certainly email Kashiwaya Sensei for clarification. She is after all on the MKF board of directors.

maybe he is expecting you to have taken nikyu by then.

best.

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Old 10-15-2004, 05:45 AM   #9
DaveO
Dojo: Great Wave Aikido
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Re: Slight dilemma of protocol

Craig:
Thanks; the one in question is the NIC in Vegas.

Lol - as for my nikkyu; not a chance! I have enough trouble trying to walk in that flappin' blue thing.
As you and the others say; contacting Kashiwaya Sensei (either myself or Jill) is the best course; I'll let you know what develops.

EDIT: I just want to be sure I'm clear on this: One thing I'm constantly worried about - because I've been guilty of it so often - is climbing above my place. Either by learning and advancing too fast; or by imagining myself equal with my superiors. Due to my ego; I've done both entirely too often - recognizing it after the fact is too late.

I assure you; this isn't the case here - which is why I'm wondering about this. Ego says 'hell yeah; I can go to this thing'; but caution is saying 'whoa; hold on, Superman - can you?'. I'm a good teacher - no ego there, just experience; what I want is to be a good aikido teacher. And to learn more about the fundamentals in the way that a course like that can provide.

The question I asked you guys is half the problem - the other half being 'am I good enough (define good...) to go?' That question is one I have to answer myself; I think.

Cheers!

Last edited by DaveO : 10-15-2004 at 05:58 AM.

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
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Old 10-15-2004, 07:07 AM   #10
Peter Seth
Dojo: Zanshin. Sunderland University
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Smile Re: Slight dilemma of protocol

Hi Dave
Take everything life offers. Shihan was obviously interested/impressed by your conversation - so go.
As to your grade - you have obviously experience in MArts/combat so your aikido grade is irrelevent, shihan wants to compare knowledge not Aikido technique.
What grade was Bruce Lee? is Jackie chan, sammo Lau, jet Li? I would love to share knowledge with them.
Go and enjoy!
pete
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Old 10-15-2004, 07:32 AM   #11
Jonathan Punt
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Re: Slight dilemma of protocol

If its just your grade stopping you going, Id say youve got yourself the incentive to train hard and make 1st Kyu or even Shodan by June.



Anyhow, I dont expect youd be the lowest grade on the mat. Theres always somebody who turns up who doesnt know the course is for Yudansha only, they rarley get turned away. After all money is money.


J
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Old 10-15-2004, 08:19 AM   #12
DaveO
Dojo: Great Wave Aikido
Location: Alberta, Canada
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Canada
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Re: Slight dilemma of protocol

Quote:
Jonathan Punt wrote:
If its just your grade stopping you going, Id say youve got yourself the incentive to train hard and make 1st Kyu or even Shodan by June.



Anyhow, I dont expect youd be the lowest grade on the mat. Theres always somebody who turns up who doesnt know the course is for Yudansha only, they rarley get turned away. After all money is money.


J
For the question of protocol; the rank and time-in are factors. For myself; they aren't - it's the skill and understanding that the rank demands which is important.

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
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Old 10-15-2004, 10:32 AM   #13
kironin
 
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Re: Slight dilemma of protocol

Quote:
Dave Organ wrote:
Craig:
Thanks; the one in question is the NIC in Vegas.
...
I assure you; this isn't the case here - which is why I'm wondering about this. Ego says 'hell yeah; I can go to this thing'; but caution is saying 'whoa; hold on, Superman - can you?'. I'm a good teacher - no ego there, just experience; what I want is to be a good aikido teacher. And to learn more about the fundamentals in the way that a course like that can provide.
...
Cheers!

I haven't heard any details yet about Vegas beyond the date. There have been no announcements. My guess is Shinichi Tohei Sensei is coming from Japan and it will be a highly structured event where a good deal of fundamentals is taught. It's more like, lets make sure everyone in the organization is on the same page sort of stuff. It would be about deepening you understanding of basics. You should definitely get clarification from Kashiwaya Sensei now since he is home at the moment.
He does a lot of traveling during the year and if you wait there may be a long delay in response.

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Old 10-15-2004, 09:49 PM   #14
xuzen
 
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Re: Slight dilemma of protocol

Dear Dave,

To be personally invited by a shihan, is most honourable. If you don't go the you would have wasted his "Yi fen hao yi". Translation: One small ounce of good intention. Go, if there is no hindrance. In this modern world, being a egalatarian society, ranking is not all encompassing.

Cheers.
Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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