Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-10-2004, 01:08 AM   #1
bkedelen
 
bkedelen's Avatar
Dojo: Boulder Aikikai
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 450
United_States
Offline
Posture's Vital Role

As a person who has constantly struggled to improve my posture, and who has come to understand that posture is not only a critical element of martial arts, but also a direct manifestation of an individual's dignity, I am curious if other people on this forum have endeavored to alter their human form. I am curious about your level of success, whether or not you feel that people treat you differently when your posture is better, and if you feel that there is such a thing as perfect posture. I am also curious if, like myself, other people have come to see their struggle with gravity (and by extension the struggle to reshape their human form) as a parallel challenge, or even an allegory, for their struggle with life's slings and arrows. I have met people from my past who did not recognize me because of the changes I have effected upon my body, and I know that many other aspects of my life have been enhanced through my efforts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2004, 01:51 AM   #2
p00kiethebear
 
p00kiethebear's Avatar
Dojo: Tonbo Dojo
Location: Bainbridge Island WA
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 374
United_States
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

Shortly after i started Aikido, I realized that I had been walking like a gorrilla my whole life. I began exercising keeping centered and breathing with my abdomen. It took about 5 months for it to become unconsciously my natural thing. But hey, now i'm great. It's definitely been a change for the better.

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity"
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2004, 09:39 AM   #3
bob_stra
Location: Australia
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 641
Australia
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

http://www.directionjournal.com/spir...ty/garlick.htm


I actually can't seem to find the article I wanted (abt a transgendered person learning to alter their posture and how this affected his/her interaction with others) but the above are still pretty interesting.

I'll look for it because it directly speaks to your question.

Last edited by bob_stra : 10-10-2004 at 09:52 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2004, 10:14 AM   #4
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Location: Florida Gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,872
United_States
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

IMHO, posture not only effect the way others view us, it changes the way we feel about ourselves, and is an important part of making correct technical and conceptual application of technique. Posture and position.

Read on the Alexander technique.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2004, 11:46 AM   #5
Pauliina Lievonen
 
Pauliina Lievonen's Avatar
Dojo: Jiki Shin Kan Utrecht
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 562
Netherlands
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

Quote:
Benjamin Edelen wrote:
I am curious about your level of success,
I'm happy, how's that for success?

Quote:
whether or not you feel that people treat you differently when your posture is better,
Dunno. I do know that I treat both myself and other people better when I use myself better.

Quote:
and if you feel that there is such a thing as perfect posture.
Nope, doesn't exist. That would suggest fixing into one particular posture, which would limit your freedom again. Good posture for me means more freedom.

Quote:
I am also curious if, like myself, other people have come to see their struggle with gravity ...snip...
I'll take that out of context to say that from an Alexander technique teachers point of view, gravity is your friend. If you allow your postural reflexes to do their work without interference (easier said than done!), gravity provides them the stimulus they need to work...gravity is what keeps us upright.

kvaak
Pauliina
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2004, 02:21 PM   #6
bkedelen
 
bkedelen's Avatar
Dojo: Boulder Aikikai
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 450
United_States
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

While a person with fair posture may feel that gravity is a friend which helps shift everything into its proper place with gentle pressure, I can assure you that someone with very poor posture must often deal with gravity as a grim hand which is at all times crushing you into the earth. At the beginning, just to get to the point where standing up straight is even possible for more than a few minutes, a great deal of strength and flexibility exercise must be done. Furthermore, sometimes bones must even be reshaped, which takes a great deal of time and constant attention. In addition, one must often force oneself to sleep in different positions, which can cause insomnia and incredible soreness. Later, once the challenge has been met and serious perseverance has occurred, one can begin to see how the human form is brilliantly shaped not to compete against gravity, but to use gravity to hold the body together. At that time, small and gentle adjustments can be made to gradually improve the posture even further, and attention can be given to maintaining a constantly erect position. Like all other endeavors worth pursuing, I suspect that the process of reshaping oneself to one's own specification is probably more valuable than the end result itself, but it occurs to me that terrible posture is not seen as a serious problem by society, nor are youth encouraged to take steps to repair their bodies, and assume more dignified mannerisms.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2004, 10:25 PM   #7
jacob wood
Location: colorado
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 16
United_States
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

im curious, what would the correct way to sleep be?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2004, 11:08 PM   #8
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,318
Japan
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

Quote:
Jacob Wood wrote:
im curious, what would the correct way to sleep be?
With a super model?

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2004, 11:28 PM   #9
bkedelen
 
bkedelen's Avatar
Dojo: Boulder Aikikai
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 450
United_States
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

I am sure that "normal" people do not need to sleep in a certain way to maintain good posture. I certainly do, however. From what I have read, changing your sleeping position depends on what you are trying to accomplish. For someone with a back injury or who is pregnant, I believe that you are often advised to sleep on your side, perhaps with a pillow between your legs. People with medical respiratory conditions must sometimes sleep in certain ways. People who snore sometimes try changing the position in which they sleep. Babies who sleep on their tummies have a reduced risk of SIDS that is statistically significant. For improving one's posture, I learned to sleep on my back, with a thin pillow, then no pillow at all (I am told that proper neck support during sleep is very important, but I was told this after two years of sleeping with no support at all). Then I learned not to cross my arms behind my head, instead keeping my shoulders down. I am back to using a pillow again, but still must be diligent to keep my arms down and stay on my back with my head square to my shoulders. Although I spent a couple years with sore back muscles, eventually everything settled, and now I feel wonderful. I had posture so poor that, from the side, my neck appeared to come out of my shoulders almost horizontally. If you look around you will see people who look like this, but who are either not motivated, or unaware that they can alter this aspect of themselves. In fact, this posture is actually considered good for some martial arts, such as Jeff Cooper's classic method of defensive pistol training, which advocates a "progressively aggressive" stance with the head in front of elbows in front of shoulders in front of hips. I personally find this stance to be very awkward now that I have a better concept of natural form.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 11:49 AM   #10
Troy
 
Troy's Avatar
Dojo: Yellow Springs Aikido
Location: Fairborn, Oh
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 50
United_States
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

The first seminar I ever went to, the Sensei who was doing the seminar kept bugging me about my posture. After doing everything I could to try to correct myself, he told me that I was leaning back for EVERYTHING. And told me why this was bad. I am now trying to do everything leaning forward, like my Sensei does a bit. And I can now see that not leaning back makes thetechniquics work alot better. My problem with gravity is that sometimes it works to well

"The Art of Peace is the religion that is not a religion; it perfects and completes all religions."
-Morihei Ueshiba
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 06:52 PM   #11
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,318
Japan
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

Quote:
Troy Copes wrote:
The first seminar I ever went to, the Sensei who was doing the seminar kept bugging me about my posture. After doing everything I could to try to correct myself, he told me that I was leaning back for EVERYTHING. And told me why this was bad. I am now trying to do everything leaning forward, like my Sensei does a bit. And I can now see that not leaning back makes thetechniquics work alot better. My problem with gravity is that sometimes it works to well
Just to throw a wrench in - I personally don't like people leaning forward. Hips under shoulders.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 08:18 PM   #12
guest89893
Dojo: Jihonjuku/ St.Pete. FL
Location: Palm Harbor, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 87
United_States
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote:
With a super model?
Just one?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 08:20 PM   #13
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,318
Japan
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

Quote:
Gene Martinelli wrote:
Just one?
Everything in moderation.

Well maybe two.


Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 08:33 PM   #14
Rupert Atkinson
 
Rupert Atkinson's Avatar
Dojo: Wherever I am.
Location: New Zealand
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 955
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

I have been stuggling with posture for more than 20 years. Personally, I like to lean forward ever-so-slightly when executing throws but also like the more vertical version. I find that the forward version helps get my centre sorted out - more over the front foot. After this kind of training, I have found that the vertical more shizen hontai style to be more effective - I can feel my center when in shizen hontai judo style posture (it's easier to develop a feeling of 'centre' with the forward Yoshinkan style method - in my opinion, but the shizen hontai more vertical style is better in the long run). Nowadays, I mix the two and constantly experiment.

Also, I prefer to sleep on a harder surface ...
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 09:23 PM   #15
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote:
I prefer to sleep on a harder surface ...
A well-toned super model

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004, 12:29 AM   #16
bkedelen
 
bkedelen's Avatar
Dojo: Boulder Aikikai
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 450
United_States
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

Rupert:
Thank you for touching upon a very good point. During my four years as a university student, I was lucky enough to sleep on a sheet of plywood with a twin sized egg-crate foam pad covered and a fitted sheet. Atop that fine surface I went prone inside my trusty three season sleeping bag. In addition to providing a bed which took one full second to make, this surface was ideal for reshaping my body, and despite some grave initial discomfort, not only helped my posture, but also allowed me to gain a measure of control over my sleeping patterns, allowing me to sleep whenever I wanted, anytime, anywhere, for an exact length of time. This was very helpful for bus trips and short disciplined naps. It must be noted, however, that such sleeping arrangements were not acceptable for a visiting female, and when permanent arrangements were made with a female, I was only able to accommodate my need for a firm surface by spending a lot of money on a very good, very hard mattress. I assure the reader that the method of earning the extra money necessary to buy a firm mattress is preferable to trying to convince your mate to buy a queen sized piece of plywood and foam. I really miss my three season bag.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004, 03:54 AM   #17
jk
Location: Indonesia
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 245
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

Once I get the two well-toned supermodels into bed with me, that wouldn't leave much room for the wife. Should I tell the missus to sleep on the floor since it'll improve her posture?

Anyway, here's what I think is an amusing little tidbit about sleeping positions:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3112170.stm
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004, 02:58 PM   #18
stoker
Dojo: Dallas Judo & Jiu Jitsu
Location: Southlake, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 31
Offline
Exclamation Re: Posture's Vital Role

Quote:
Benjamin Edelen wrote:
Babies who sleep on their tummies have a reduced risk of SIDS that is statistically significant..
Opps. Sleep on the BACK not front. Cuts in the rate from 2 per 100,000 lives births to 1 per 100,000. Having burried one baby who died of SIDS, I am probably acutely picky on thus

dave stokes
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004, 10:03 PM   #19
bkedelen
 
bkedelen's Avatar
Dojo: Boulder Aikikai
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 450
United_States
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

Sincerest apology, David.
Here is a relevant article to further edify the reader:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in525140.shtml
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2004, 06:13 AM   #20
Dazzler
Dojo: Bristol North Aikido Dojo
Location: Bristol
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 659
England
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote:
Just to throw a wrench in - I personally don't like people leaning forward. Hips under shoulders.
I agree ...with a vertical torso one maintains correct shisei. Lean forward when executing a throw and you expose yourself to a counterthrow.

Sink your weight and centre by bending the legs not the back.

Also....I prefer glamour model rather than super model...but I'd be grateful for randori with either.

Regards

D
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2004, 11:28 AM   #21
suren
Dojo: Aikido of Silicon Valley
Location: Fremont, CA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 248
United_States
Offline
Re: Posture's Vital Role

I found pretty interesting reading about this topic here http://www.bodymindandmodem.com/Basics/posture.html and the site itself has a lot of interesting information... at least for me.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Poll: In which aikido role do you feel more physically comfortable? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 11 01-26-2007 11:15 PM
the role of uke and pins GreenLizzard General 5 11-30-2005 01:33 PM
Article: The Role of Faith by "The Grindstone" AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 08-11-2005 11:15 AM
Poll: Which role do you think suffers more injuries during aikido training? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 4 07-06-2004 12:42 PM
Role of emotions PhilJ General 19 07-15-2003 11:10 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:44 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2017 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2017 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate