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Old 09-23-2004, 04:23 AM   #51
ranZ
 
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Dojo: Ki no Kenyukai/Jakarta
Location: Indonesia
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Re: Aikido Separatism / Fundamentalism?

Quote:
Ian Hurst wrote:
Wulan, couldn't disagree more, sounds like the problem is fundamentally the teacher not the student. The idea that cross-training within the same ma is anathema is ludicrous.
Ian, actually i couldn't agree more with you. I don't think cross training within the same ma should be a problem either.
Cross being just a friendly once-in-a-while practice wouldn't have any "political" implications. But the idea of actually practicing in 2 different styles at the same period of time, in the long run i think it's just like asking for trouble with the ranks and the organizations. (cmiiw, but can anyone actually have -lets say- a 3rd dan in aikikai & a 5th dan in shodokan? Or can an aikidoka transfer his/her "rank credits" to another style?)

Back to the issue, like LC and p00kie says, it makes no sense that the instructor rejects a "heathen" to "convert". (asuming the student is willing to start from zero). So there's something missing from the story -which is the other side. I'm just not fully convinced that this is a "holier than thou" case, but if infact it is, well... an ignorant fool is just an ignorant fool.

Am i making any sense here... or have i just been reading too many zen munchkins?? ( like Kensho Furuya's story about an aikido student vs a zazen teacher http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4693 ).

Imho Viggo Mortensen should've played Last Samurai!
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Old 09-23-2004, 05:15 AM   #52
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
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Re: Aikido Separatism / Fundamentalism?

Peter, Larry, thanks guys (typical evil sniggering at the aiki-fruity from the shodo-thugs corner... where's Yann by the way?) but it's not quite like that. I was used to the over-the-top splatty form of ukemi from my previous time in aikikai where I agree, the legs are straight (straighter in my case), but I think you're right in that I need to review them there legs.

This type of splatty goes from straight leg fall to one leg tucked up close on groin-guard duty and t'other with a kick to the knee. However, this wasn't the worst, all their ukemi have a counter-attack component instead of a get up quick bit (even forward rolls) and it's the mind-set I'm having difficulty with. I can get with the program in my head, but my body keeps betraying me much to my disgust - I know, practice (blah blah blah - I want to do it correctly now!). I'm already envisaging problems with the finishes (what, you expect me to hit them when they're already down and I can walk away...?)

Wulan, sorry, thought you were advocating the orthodoxy route - my bad.
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Old 09-23-2004, 05:37 AM   #53
Yann Golanski
 
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Dojo: York Shodokan Aikido
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Re: Aikido Separatism / Fundamentalism?

Ian,

I am in meetings on/developing virtual learning tools including displaying maths on the web --openmath and mathml -- as well as at a conference on the foundation of quantum physics. I've just realise just how little I know... I'm as well recovering for surgery on my jaw with the seven stitches coming out in a few hours.

First time I had a chance to log on here in a week!

BTW, I agree we need an English spell checker here!!!

The way I've learnt breakfalls (forward ones and backwards ones) are from Judo and they have stuck. So, I do truck in my leg in the forward one but never in the backwards one. I aim at becoming like Martin (from Edinburgh) who just glances on the mat and is back up no matter how hard one throws him. *grins evilly*

The people who understand, understand prefectly.
yann@york-aikido.org York Shodokan Aikido
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Old 09-23-2004, 07:26 AM   #54
L. Camejo
 
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Dojo: Ontario Martial Arts
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Re: Aikido Separatism / Fundamentalism?

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote:
Thing is Larry (the Shodo-Ninja) we tend to be pretty anal about keeping the leg straight ourselves. Go into a Judo dojo and it tends to be the one thing they pick up on also. I guess this answers Ian's question - learn to straighten that leg.

Nariyama Shihan once tore me to shreds for folding that leg in - he was seriously worried about knee damage. I had just got back to Japan from a stint in Canada and I guess had fallen under the influences of an Aikikai dojo.
Interesting point Peter.

Like Craig said, it would be cool to get some body stress and joint impact studies to go with some of our assumptions on Ukemi and to scientifically check out what we have been taught.

I learnt to roll (mae ukemi) both with the leg extended on landing and with the leg tucked. What I found was that with low energy rolls (like when I take a dive on my own) it was easier to tuck my leg under and get to a standing point (also to go into hanza handachi waza if necessary). This sort of roll also worked well when I tripped and fell forward on the street once. The other one I use in the dojo mainly as it is a hell of a lot louder (something I don't particular like), the area of main impact changes from one's knees to one's ankles/feet (which only means that the force gets transferred towards the knee after) and it tends to be more difficult to get up with for me anyway. The thing is, this type of roll is perfect for when I get launched out of a cannon by someone (like shishida in my nidan test) who intends to put me on the other side of the dojo with a throw, the leg straight ukemi is great for braking on impact. If I folded my leg here I'd probably keep on going without control. So like I said, for me (as is the case with technique) situation dictates which one I use at any time, they tend to fall into place naturally. I've done both types of roll in Judo and Jujutsu as well and haven't had any complaints. Of course again, this had much to do with the type of throw and how I wanted to recover. Most Judo throws don't plan for you to get up afterwards, so the leg out option is best to control one's movement when impact is made with the floor imo.

LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
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Old 09-24-2004, 03:10 PM   #55
billybob
 
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Re: Aikido Separatism / Fundamentalism?

i would like to go back to mid-thread: aikido and human belief systems.

if aikido follows some other organizations from history we see:

1.enlightened leader
2. followers
3. early spreading of belief
4. maturity
5. post maturity/revolutions
6. dissolution or entrenchment in culture

therefore we can predict that someone will lead an aikido revolt in the next 100 years. sorry, psychohistory is not an exact science. (and i am writing tongue in cheek)

people will always act like people.

billybob
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