Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-31-2004, 02:40 PM   #26
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 890
United_States
Offline
Re: Ki Aikido

Quote:
Dave Organ wrote:
Errmm.............

I'm trying to figure out the focus of these messages - either Alexsey doesn't know much about ki-aikido or he's trying to make a point I missed.

There are separate ki exercises during class. There are also ki tests during examinations. Ki is discussed very heavily; since it is a critical component of how we train.
My point was, what Mr. Shiohira teaches is _not_ Ki Aikido, despite his heavy past affiliation with Koichi Tohei which Craig hinted at.

Last edited by shihonage : 08-31-2004 at 02:44 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2004, 03:59 PM   #27
kironin
 
kironin's Avatar
Dojo: Houston Ki Aikido
Location: Houston,TX
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,035
United_States
Offline
Re: Ki Aikido

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Aleksey is speaking of Shiohira Sensei, and I have no idea whether or not he (Shiohira Sensei) teaches using the Shin Shin Toitsu methodology...perhaps Aleksey or Craig can clarify...

RT
It's true Shin Shin Toitsu Aikido (Ki Society) has a very defined pedagogy and that is the official name of our Aikido that appears on all the certificates.

However the term "Ki Aikido" has often been used by groups not associated with the Ki Society so I don't see it as exactly equivalent. Ki Society HQ tends to always refer to "Ki Aikido" as a term "often used (or known) in the West" and treats it pretty informally. It doesn't exactly make sense in Japanese, so I tend to look at it as slang like "Gi" is for Dogi. We often use "Ki Aikido" in our advertising because those new to aikido looking at it will see aikido and those moving in to the area that are looking for us will understand what that means.

Shiohira Sensei who was Chief Instructor of the Bay Area Ki Research Institute had his reasons for leaving Ki Society but one of his senior students stayed in Ki Society and is now the Chief Instructor of Northern California Ki Society. Shiohira Sensei is of course free to train students however he wants, but his technical style definitely still feels Ki Aikido when you take ukemi from him.

The more I go around the more I tend to see these various groups as just part of a larger general lineage of Ki Aikido. Some groups have retained more and some less of the Ki Development pedagogy. For example AAA does Ki testing as part of it's Aikido kyu ranks while Shin Budo Kai stil has a distinct separate practice.

Whether there will be as much connection a couple of decades from now I can't really say, but for now when I visit, it feels like home away from home.

I forgot to mention Seidokan as another example of Ki Aikido.

Last edited by kironin : 08-31-2004 at 04:07 PM.

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2004, 07:57 PM   #28
Erik
Location: Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,200
Offline
Re: Ki Aikido

For what it's worth on Shiohira sensei.

Other than some breathing exercises, which would qualify in my opinion, he seemed to be mostly devoid of ki stuff the couple of days I dropped by. From what I know he used to be Ki Society and now runs one of the 19 different, or thereabouts, organizations which can be found in the Bay Area.

At the risk of overgeneralizing, ok I am overgeneralizing, I'd say he was more grounded than most of the Ki Society types I've run into. Of course your mileage can and will vary.

Heck of a nice guy and very down to earth. I'd recommend him to anyone who happened to be in the area.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2004, 07:59 PM   #29
Tatiana
Dojo: Lenwakan
Location: São Paulo
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 64
Brazil
Offline
Blush! Re: Ki Aikido

Errrrr... Ok.. I think that by now, you guys must think I don't know anything about Aikido ... But I've got one more question.... What does AAA stand for?? blá association of Aikido????
Thanks...
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2004, 08:16 PM   #30
kironin
 
kironin's Avatar
Dojo: Houston Ki Aikido
Location: Houston,TX
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,035
United_States
Offline
Re: Ki Aikido

AAA = Aikido Association of America

Founded by the late Fumio Toyoda Sensei who was Chief Instructor of the Chicago Ki Society. In the 1990's expanded internationally (AAI) and affiliated with the Aikikai Foundation. Currently led by Andy Sato Sensei who is a very smooth relaxed aikidoist and good teacher and a very nice guy. He started in the Chicago Ki Society.
http://www.aaa-aikido.com/teachers/satobio.html

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2004, 10:14 PM   #31
Jerry Miller
 
Jerry Miller's Avatar
Location: Spring Tx
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 163
United_States
Offline
Ki Symbol Re: Ki Aikido

Quote:
Aleksey Sundeyev wrote:
Judge a tree by the fruit it bears, not by the man who planted it.

There are no separate "ki exercises" during class.
There are no "ki tests" during exams.
"Ki" is hardly ever mentioned during training, which is pretty much 100% focused on technique.

Two people in this thread already mentioned the "ki practice" as the key trait by which Ki Aikido dojos can be identified.
I am in AAA. There are ki tests during exams. We rarely do ki exercises during class. Ki is mentioned in passing during class. I find this interesting since the organization I was in as a youth ki was mentioned frequently during class. There were no ki exercises other than the "unbendable arm thing". There were no ki tests during exams. The standards I trained to back then were NY state aikikai. The organization from back then is now known as USAF. I do not believe that one needs to do Ki-Aikido to learn about ki. I also believe that one can learn about ki without ever realizing it. BTW I only expressing my opinion. I was mudansha back then and after a long absence still am (starting over from the very beginning). I like the fruit tree analogy though.

Jerry Miller
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2004, 02:46 AM   #32
kironin
 
kironin's Avatar
Dojo: Houston Ki Aikido
Location: Houston,TX
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,035
United_States
Offline
Re: Ki Aikido

Quote:
Aleksey Sundeyev wrote:
Judge a tree by the fruit it bears, not by the man who planted it.
OK, Next time I am in San Fran let's practice ...

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2004, 02:54 AM   #33
kironin
 
kironin's Avatar
Dojo: Houston Ki Aikido
Location: Houston,TX
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,035
United_States
Offline
Re: Ki Aikido

Quote:
Gerard Miller wrote:
I do not believe that one needs to do Ki-Aikido to learn about ki. I also believe that one can learn about ki without ever realizing it.

sigh ...
that is not the argument and never was.

one more time because the point seems to have been lost.

Quote:
...found that, by employing a few simple principles which he developed during his teaching of others, he could speed the development of Ki awareness within students and show them how to improve the flow of Ki energy in their body. This revolutionized instruction in Aikido and is developing a group of Aikido students which start their training with relaxation and softness as a part of their "going in philosophy".

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2004, 02:56 AM   #34
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 890
United_States
Offline
Re: Ki Aikido

Quote:
Craig Hocker wrote:
OK, Next time I am in San Fran let's practice ...
If you want to practice not for the sake of practicing Aikido, but with the intent of judging an instructor by his students, I suggest you pick someone around your own rank to practice with.
You know, to be fair and all.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2004, 03:33 AM   #35
kironin
 
kironin's Avatar
Dojo: Houston Ki Aikido
Location: Houston,TX
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,035
United_States
Offline
Re: Ki Aikido


okay, I am confused. It was your suggestion after all.

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2004, 03:38 AM   #36
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 890
United_States
Offline
Re: Ki Aikido

Quote:
Craig Hocker wrote:

okay, I am confused. It was your suggestion after all.
Maybe my analogy was unclear.
Here, let me break it down for you.

Man who planted the tree - Mr. Koichi Tohei
The tree - Mr. Shiohira
The fruit - Mr. Shiohira's technique

This analogy was made in a response to your remark about Mr. Shiohira's prior affiliations.

Last edited by shihonage : 09-01-2004 at 03:43 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2004, 05:44 AM   #37
DaveO
Dojo: Great Wave Aikido
Location: Alberta, Canada
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 543
Canada
Offline
Re: Ki Aikido

Quote:
Aleksey Sundeyev wrote:
My point was, what Mr. Shiohira teaches is _not_ Ki Aikido, despite his heavy past affiliation with Koichi Tohei which Craig hinted at.
Whoops! Terribly sorry about that Aleksey; your post makes perfect sense once I've been properly caffienated.
I really shouldn't answer posts before shaking hands with Juan Valdez.

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2004, 08:58 AM   #38
kironin
 
kironin's Avatar
Dojo: Houston Ki Aikido
Location: Houston,TX
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,035
United_States
Offline
Re: Ki Aikido

Quote:
Aleksey Sundeyev wrote:
Maybe my analogy was unclear.
Here, let me break it down for you.

Man who planted the tree - Mr. Koichi Tohei
The tree - Mr. Shiohira
The fruit - Mr. Shiohira's technique

This analogy was made in a response to your remark about Mr. Shiohira's prior affiliations.
ok, I see, my mistake, I read that as
Man who planted tree - Mr. Shiohira
The tree - (Pacific Aikido Federation)
The fruit - PAF students


Using your version,
apparently you feel the tree was just abandoned after planting and never
nurtured and watered (Shin Shin Toitsu Do)
that would seem to be where we disagree.

someone did mention what I had forgotten, that Shiohira Sensei finishes classes with several minutes of Ki breathing practice. This I have never seen in USAF classes and is very peculiar to classes at Ki Aikido dojos and in the Ki Society is emphasized as one of the most important Ki training practices you can do in or out of the dojo.
Now if you get no instruction on that maybe you could argue that you never do any Ki training in the PAF but the tree is still being nurtured by it.

stray thought on your comment on my offer to train,
As to training with senior PAF students, they would have done a lot of formal Ki training earlier in their careers, so it would not prove anything even if I was looking to prove something. If it sounded like some sort of challenge, I apologize.

Last edited by kironin : 09-01-2004 at 09:03 AM.

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2004, 09:07 AM   #39
Tatiana
Dojo: Lenwakan
Location: São Paulo
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 64
Brazil
Offline
Dead Re: Ki Aikido

Errr... Thanks guys! Just.... Stop arguing... I`m sure we can figure this out without arguing... Not that I`ve got too much space to talk, I genrely resolve my problems by arguing.. but it`s not the right way to do things..... And being sarcastic isn`t either.... Once more, Thanks for all the info, it really helped!!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2004, 09:19 AM   #40
kironin
 
kironin's Avatar
Dojo: Houston Ki Aikido
Location: Houston,TX
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,035
United_States
Offline
Re: Ki Aikido

arguing ???

for the internet this is a pretty friendly discussion

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2004, 03:26 PM   #41
Tatiana
Dojo: Lenwakan
Location: São Paulo
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 64
Brazil
Offline
Confused Re: Ki Aikido

CRAIG!!!! LOL! ok... There's no saveing you guys! LOL! THo I suppose that this discution is light compared to that other thread in the 'Genral' folder... "Aikido is weak" I kinda boiled up... That guy... What's his name??? Any way.. He sucks I mean.. excusing the - light- wording... Errrr... Ok, excusing my French, LOL!
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2004, 03:32 PM   #42
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 890
United_States
Offline
Re: Ki Aikido

I think Craig's still upset by that comment I made in the thread about "serious students"

Last edited by shihonage : 09-03-2004 at 03:34 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2004, 05:37 PM   #43
kironin
 
kironin's Avatar
Dojo: Houston Ki Aikido
Location: Houston,TX
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,035
United_States
Offline
Re: Ki Aikido

I had forgotten about it till now.


but I figure you have spent too much time watching South Park.


still it's better than most British humor.

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2004, 06:12 PM   #44
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 890
United_States
Offline
Re: Ki Aikido

Quote:
Craig Hocker wrote:
I had forgotten about it till now.


but I figure you have spent too much time watching South Park.


still it's better than most British humor.
No, actually I can't stand South Park.
I think it's aimed at much younger (not to mention developmentally challenged) demographic.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2004, 03:51 AM   #45
Tatiana
Dojo: Lenwakan
Location: São Paulo
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 64
Brazil
Offline
Talking Re: Ki Aikido

well, they say that taste is like a backside... Each has his own, don't critisize... I think I'm starting to sound like my mother... LOL! And you too, Aleksey... LOL! She can't even stand the Simpsons... Imagine if I sugested South Park! The house would explode... LOL! Any way.... What comment is this??? I think I'll go and check it out... Stick my nose where it doesn't belong... LOL!
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2004, 04:03 AM   #46
Tatiana
Dojo: Lenwakan
Location: São Paulo
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 64
Brazil
Offline
Tongue Re: Ki Aikido

And on the subject of British/American humor... British Humor is vry dry.... But American humor... The guy's kinda like gotta tell you "Well... The jokes over now... You can laugh..." No offense to the British or American... But I kinda like just fit in wherever I am, so I'll get used to the jokes, and laugh along...
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shioda, Tohei, and Ki Things Mike Sigman General 118 03-13-2010 06:18 AM
Aikido: Its Spirit and Technique TAnderson General 0 02-27-2007 07:50 AM
Philippine ranking and other stories aries admin General 27 06-27-2006 04:27 AM
Japanese "Ki," Chinese "Chi" Chuck.Gordon Open Discussions 262 02-16-2006 12:41 PM
Stanislavsky and Ki DaveO General 11 01-20-2006 10:11 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:34 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2017 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2017 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate